The Thing You Disliked Most About S6?

[Wesley Pryce]

I loved season six,I think the only thing I would do different is to have Xander be killed instead of Tara. Also would've loved to see Spike be the big bad instead of Willow. 🙂

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=12570]Wesley Pryce[/MENTION],

Wesley Pryce disagrees: i think its MORE realistic

In what way? People always say this, but really, what is so realistic and grounded about S6? Willow's drug addiction arc feels like Joss and Marti Noxon watched a bunch of movies about heroin and went "well, we'll try to make it like that". Their attempts at "dealing" with sexual assault in "Seeing Red" and beyond are, I'm sorry, pitiful. I don't know how else to put this, but to me, it's VERY clear that Joss has zero experience with what sexual assault actually is. To people who have gone through it, or have watched loved ones go through it, it's pretty gross to watch. Rape is essentially used as a plot device to further the rapist's internal development. That's not a commentary on Spike as character (who I actually quite like), but on the writing behind it. It's kind of gross, actually.

They try and force Dawn, a character I like, to have "teenage problems" by writing her as a kleptomaniac, which always felt like they had nothing concrete to do with her but still wanted her to be the "moody" teen.

The theme of Giles needing to leave so Buffy can somehow break away from the nest, when she was just yarded out of heaven, is ham-handed to a ridiculous degree. They try SO hard to force the metaphor, but all that happens is Giles comes across as a tremendous asshole for abandoning Buffy when she needs him most.

Buffy's job and money troubles are even more evidence of S6 being a metaphor-wasteland. First off, there is no reason, NONE, why Buffy should ever have money problems. They wanted her to work some crappy, fast-food job to make the metaphor of people in their early 20's who haven't figured life out yet needing to work those kinds of jobs. The issue of course, is that Buffy has freaking superpowers! Unless she is just plain dumb, there is no reason why she can't figure out a high-paying job. When you have Slayer-powers, it isn't that difficult. So beyond needing a suspension of disbelief, it leaves me with wondering why Buffy can't just sit down and figure out a real job. She tries one time, with construction, and then basically abandons the idea.

And what about the oh-so-uplifting ending to the season? Buffy's depression? Gone, just like that. Snap of the fingers and Buffy is no longer depressed. All she needed to do was give her head a shake, and depression be-gone. Man, I hope people at home are taking notes. You're clinically depressed? Here, I've got the solution. Ready? Here it is: Don't be!

That's essentially how Buffy "gets over" her depression. Angel on AtS did an absolutely fantastic epiphany storyline. They made it work, they made it realistic and most of all, they made it truly mean something. BTVS did not. They took an incredibly complex and layered problem in depression and just had the main character get over it buckling down and punching some bad guys.

So please, tell me, what is so realistic about S6?

 

[Gum Gnome33]

So please, tell me, what is so realistic about S6?

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION], I actually agree entirely with your post^^^ about how the writers fail at their task to make season 6 more realistic. I mean the execution of it is very poor. As you say, Giles' exit is completely forced, Willow's drug addiction is almost comical (which is downright saying a whole lot), Dawn's problems are ridiculous, etc, etc.

However, I actually look past all of that and I do see season 6 as the most realistic, no thanks to all of the above mentioned obstacles.

First of all, on a more surface level, we have the "villains" or enemies who this season are humans. While, yes, we've seen humans and other souled beings commit crimes on the show before, this season focuses on three miserable, lonely and socially exiled boys who repeatedly harm, demean, and murder. This is very realistic indeed.

As I interpret season 6, the message is that the monsters are ourselves. The season is rife with betrayal, inappropriate treatment of loved ones, physical violence against loved ones, failure to function in such a way that leaves others hurt, and a wallowing in self pity and shame that leads one to destroy his/her own character.

These are all things that come across to me in spite of the troublesome and often cheesy way in which they are executed.

Giles, the father figure, abandons his daughter during her greatest time of need. It's done so poorly but regardless it is heartbreaking, and real.

Willow succumbs to the greediness that has been the result of years of real power, years of the vampire slayer needing her to survive. She is abusive and destructive to her self, to her lover, and to her friends. While what we see onscreen comes across as an after school special, the message is no less profound for me. And it's horribly realistic because, frankly, we see that there is a price for magic. There is a price for the convenience of being able to fix things instantly, to bring people back from the dead, to violate laws of nature in order to achieve a goal. What's worse is that Willow pays that price alone though she did not seek out the poison by herself. But because her behavior this season is so deplorable, there is no one who will agree to share the blame or to even consider the real source of her pain. This added layer is another realistic twist--another log on the fire.

Dawn's story as a kleptomaniac is bizarre for sure. But illustrated there is the mother figure, busy bringing in enough sustenance to survive and turning to her abusive relationship for solace, ignoring the child for whom she is responsible. It is more than realistic that Dawn would cry out for attention.

Xander leaves Anya on their wedding day, so consumed with his own worry that he will one day become is father that indeed that fear becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, in many ways. That he realized all of this too late is very realistic; there was no plot-contrived convenience in which he makes the call months or even days before the wedding.

Even Spike is like a faltering human being in this season. He demonstrates that he understands what it means to be loyal, he is at times empathetic, he is a man who loves a human being and attempts to have what at times passes as a relationship with her. And then he reverts to monster, he regresses, he attacks her.

The monsters are ourselves. Who will slay them?

 

[Taake]

It's a season where Buffy is very lost, too lost in fact, and since (for me) she's the anchor of the ship I felt lost and disinterested in her in return because I felt like I didnt know her anymore. And ultimately (regardless of her lame last minute speech to Dawn) she never found the way back to herself and though I tried I could never grow to like her the same way again.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The unrelenting gloom of Season 6 was intended to do what is done often in the arts: take a picture of a situation and then convince themselves that they are "addressing" "important issues in society", sort of like musicians in the '60's who took credit for enlightening the masses about the ugliness of war, when in fact all they did was put a set of lyrics to music with no further insight into the causes or cures of the situation. So Buffy was alienated, impoverished, depressed and Willow was descending into a life of magical ease combined with dominance of her lover and Dawn was turning into a klepto and the Trio was out to rule Sunnydale with an iron fist, committing crime after crime.

I could see the point in an artistic treatment of these issues if they actually dealt with their origin and how to handle them. But all we get is a snapshot of these events. No insight, no cure, no hope. And not much in the way of entertainment. I do like Season 6 better than 4 or 7, but you can see the writing is beginning to get weak.

 

[sleecin]

Taras death. And I dont like the villians warren trio. And too little giles.

But overall Season 6 is one of my more fave seasons. Many fun episodes and twists.

And the season has a good buffy feeling to it.

 

[chasesummers]

Buffy and Spikes relationship and the Trio.
the rest of the season I really liked

 

[Kurai]

I haven't seen it in a while, but for me, it's The Trio. They were such an underwhelming 'Big Bad' compared to what we had before, that I was just like 'can't Buffy just get rid of these guys already?'.

 

[Icarium]

Buffy's job and money troubles are even more evidence of S6 being a metaphor-wasteland. First off, there is no reason, NONE, why Buffy should ever have money problems. They wanted her to work some crappy, fast-food job to make the metaphor of people in their early 20's who haven't figured life out yet needing to work those kinds of jobs. The issue of course, is that Buffy has freaking superpowers!

Not to mention that one would imagine there would be plenty of job openings in Sunnydale due to the ridiculously high mortality rate caused by vampires and the likes. Or that Buffy would have been perfect as a employee in the Magic Box - it wouldn't even be about helping out a friend in need, it would be about Anya's own self-interest considering what happened to the previous owners and how often that place was visited by supernatural threats. It's like writing a story about a nuclear physicist, surgeon or someone like that, an absolute ace in their field and then refuse to allow them to apply for any job that would allow them to take advantage of their skills, only because you want them to be poor.

And, of course, they just had to add insult to injury by making all of Buffའmoney problems disappear as if by magic in S7, so they refused to even resolve the (mind blowingly dumb) story they wanted to tell so much. Not to mention that they already had pretty much this exact same arc with Xander in S4, only with much less wallowing in misery and it made a lot more sense for him. I didn't like how much Xander was mocked in this arc but as a whole it's many, many times better than Buffy's.

It's done so poorly but regardless it is heartbreaking, and real.

How can it be real or heartbreaking when one can easily see the behind the screen reasons for that development? That sounds like a contradiction to me. I just can't take what Giles did seriously. It fits the previously established story and characterization about as much as iceberg in the middle of Sahara. Even if he believed in this crap of Buffy needing to do things on her own in the midst of suicidal depression (some father figure, that Giles), he should have stayed and tried to help Willow at least. He left right after she had shown how irresponsible her usage of magic had become.

That he realized all of this too late is very realistic; there was no plot-contrived convenience in which he makes the call months or even days before the wedding.

How on earth is it more realistic to make that call exactly at the time of the wedding? It's a tired cliche, sure, but realistic? I don't think so.

Most importantly, the issue should not be about realism as such at all, it should be about plausibility in this fictional world which is quite different than ours. Is it plausible that all those demons would come to a wedding where the Slayer is present? No. Is it plausible that Riley would not stake Spike in 6.15? Nope. Is it plausible that Buffy cannot find a better job than flipping burgers? Nope. Is it plausible that magic is like drugs never mind this was not mentioned even once in the five previous seasons? No. And so on. When you railroad the story so much, you basically destroy all consistent characterization and your audience need to really, really make an effort to suspend its disbelief in order to enjoy you "great ideas". Why? Because you have not done your homework and have basically taken a writing shortcut. And in this case you done it for the sake of story ideas that were mostly stupid to begin with, IMO. The girl plays with fire when she tries to change the bad boy - is there any less original story than this one? Not many. Drugs are bad, 'mkay? Ditto. The would-be husband who gets cold feet? Someone betraying Buffy for the 49556th time? Great job, Joss, that is so new and exciting!

 

[thetopher]

Got to say the Buffy/Spike 'relationship'- really painful to watch.
Willow's 'addiction' arc which missed the point of her character- she was addicted to the power (wanting to be super-Willow), not to magic!
Having Mopey Buffy for about 20 episodes! (I think thats why I like Tabula Rasa so much)

 

[Aimee]

Did anyone else think "what the hell?" when "and Alyson Hannigan as Willow" came up in the opening credits?
Why did they do that? I understood with Giles as he was Buffy's Watcher. If anything, I think it should have been "and Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy"

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I can't agree on Buffy mentally abusing him either. She was very clear from the get go that she didn't love him, that she just wanted to physically feel something. Spike wasn't led on.

Yeah, they hit each other alot...but not in that context.

Did Spike use Buffy? Yes, he did. He used her depression as leverage to alienate her from her friends. Did Buffy use Spike? Yes, she did. She used him for sex when she knew he wanted more. Is neither worse than the other? No. These were just two people in pain, struggling and they each made bad choices. Buffy is a not a bad person, and what she did wasn't terrible - but it certainly wasn't nice. If Buffy had continued to use Spike even after she knew he wanted more, that would have been another story. But she did the right thing and broke it off.

That's my take on this issue, anyway.

I find it hard to believe that some could argue that their relationship wasn't mutually abusive, though...because it was. Very much so.

 

[ladydorotea]

Well, I have to disagree that Spike was 'people' in any general sense. He was and remained through the season a soulless vampire. Period. Vampires are not people. Following from that generally accepted axiom, his being 'in pain' cannot be categorized the same as Buffy being in pain. And I refer you to 'I will torture her till she loves me again' spoken about the other vampire with whom he was supposedly 'in love' at the time. Vampiric 'love' ain't human love. "Pain? You love pain" to quote from another source. Spike was not people , and he definitely was not 'in pain' in its regular sense. He enjoyed every bit of being beaten and abused because "I have never been with such an animal" was said wistfully/lustfully and as a compliment. And that includes mental and psychological torture, as far as soulless vampires go. They are ticking this way.
Therefore I canot even categorize what Buffy did as 'not nice'. She was giving the guy what he wanted and enjoyed most - sense of titillating joy of being (sexually) abused by a Slayer. He hunted the Slayers and killed them for half his unlife - the other half he spent enjoying being abused by one. S/M in all its simple soulles glory. And Spike 'wanting more' certainly was part of his game. So, while relationship was mutually abusive, it is hardly fair to categorize Buffy into the same pigeonhole as a soulless masochist.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

...Therefore I canot even categorize what Buffy did as 'not nice'. She was giving the guy what he wanted and enjoyed most - sense of titillating joy of being (sexually) abused by a Slayer. He hunted the Slayers and killed them for half his unlife - the other half he spent enjoying being abused by one. S/M in all its simple soulles glory. And Spike 'wanting more' certainly was part of his game. So, while relationship was mutually abusive, it is hardly fair to categorize Buffy into the same pigeonhole as a soulless masochist.

No, I do agree that what Spike did was worse than what Buffy did - if you insist on comparing the two - however, Spike's absence of a soul was not a free pass for Buffy to treat him like dirt.

No, Spike isn't human, and he wasn't her bestie, but he wasn't any old vamp in an alley to her, either - he was more than just any vampire to her. He was a trusted ally. Her treatment of him in this period does not match how she viewed/treated him prior.

 

[ladydorotea]

No, I do agree that what Spike did was worse than what Buffy did - if you insist on comparing the two - however, Spike's absence of a soul was not a free pass for Buffy to treat him like dirt.

See, but that's what Spike actually was/is after, consciously or subconsciously, souled or soulless, he *likes* being treated like dirt, and he likes being hurt. Otherwise Spike would not be repeating the same pattern with every woman he is after/or with : Cecily, Dru, various Slayers. This pattern only changes when he is with a girlfriend that is all over him - Harmony. Her he treats like dirt in return because she is not giving him what he really wants - pain. Funnily enough it is often taken by the fandom as 'subversion' of usual male dominant behavior and some sort of 'respect' for a powerful woman. Enjoying being beaten into the bloody pulp ain't respect, it is mental disorder. Endurance of being treated like a dirty doormat also is not sign of respect or admiration, it is mental acceptance and exploitation of other party's disorder. This type of a relationship is sometimes called 'All Take and No Give' or 'Masochist tango', see the appropriate tropes.

In any case, my point is - Buffy was giving him what he wanted, and while it was unhealthy and unnatural for her, that is what 'love' actually passes for with soulless vampires. Dru and his own turned mother treated him no better at some moments and heck if it was not what he was used to. As such, Buffy playing 'vampire family' with Spike was nasty, but was not really harmful for him, because that's what vampires do for fun and games. That was why he was calling forth her inner demon side all the time - to have his fun with it by being hurt and treated like dirt.

He was a trusted ally. Her treatment of him in this period does not match how she viewed/treated him prior.

I disagree that chipped soulless Spike was ever a 'trusted ally'. More like he was her dangerous pet monster, who can be trained to behave, and used as needed. The episode with Dawn only emphasized Buffy's personal idiosyncrasy and recklessness. The guy basically switched between wanting to kill her and wanting to shag her on a daily basis. And that's exactly what later gave her an idea to use him as sex toy. You don't do this to a trusted ally.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=3210]Joan[/MENTION] the Vampire Slayer

Buffy doesn't slay vampires for what they have done - she slays them because they are vampires. She beats them, stakes them, sets them on fire occasionally, she doesn't have a problem with torture either. On the top of that, Buffy enjoys the hunt, on some level she treats slaying as fun ( That's it? That's all I get? One lame-ass vamp with no appreciation for my painstakingly thought out puns. I don't think the forces of darkness are even trying. ) It's OK because vampires are vampires and human rules don't apply, it's OK to behave like a monster towards them.

Buffy doesn't stake Spike but aside from that, she treats him like any other vampire. She opens up a bit with him, but nowhere near like with Holden, she uses him as a resource and she manipulates him. They start sleeping after her resurrection but Spike's still not treated like a human. Buffy still hates him ( He's everything I hate/Ask me again why I could never love you! ) she still beats the crap out of him because, she still manipulates and uses him, now as a sex toy too.

Then she tells Tara this: What? Using him? What's okay about that? (...) It's wrong. I'm wrong. Basically, according to Buffy, it's wrong to treat Spike like a vampire. But why? Why is it wrong to treat Spike like a vampire? Why should human rules apply to Spike?

There is no answer to this question. In my opinion this is one of the biggest flaws of season 6 and BtVS in general.

 

[thetopher]

People tend to forget that Buffy is very upfront to Spike about her using him. She tells him all the time, even when their together, that he's 'convienient', that she's using him. That's why she ends it (actually that's only one of the reasons- the others are self-loathing, and wanting, on some level, to get out of her funk- plus maybe his 'charms' were wearing a little thin 😛).
I guess Spike is honest with Buffy, but not in his tactics, he prays on her emotional vulnerability like, well, a vampire. His goal seems to be to isolate Buffy as much as possible from her friends. 🙁

Here's an interesting question, if they hadn't broken up, would Spike have tried to turn Buffy? He calls her a 'creature of the dark', and wants her to be his alone. And he doesn't see getting turned into a vampire as a 'bad thing'. Maybe?

 

[chasesummers]

I disliked Buffy and Spike moments, unbearable lol

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Here's an interesting question, if they hadn't broken up, would Spike have tried to turn Buffy? He calls her a 'creature of the dark', and wants her to be his alone. And he doesn't see getting turned into a vampire as a 'bad thing'. Maybe?

Nah. He tried that stunt with his own mother and she disowned him. He wouldn't want to go back to the treatment he got in "Fool for Love 5ABB07" and the way he was being used, he would prefer to have things remain as they were with her considering him "convenient" than risk having her turn on him like his mother did or go back to being a fool for love.

 

[thetopher]

But isn't that the difference beween souled and un-souled Spike, the realisation that his Mother wasn't his mother when she tore into him verbally. It took Spike ages to make that realisation, because I think vampires think of themselves as the humans they were, just without all those 'weaknesses' like morality or empathy.

I guess Unsouled Spike seems to have some awareness of this ('I know that I'm a monster...'), but since characterisation is all over the map in Season 6, and Spike's self-awareness of his evil is especially apparent in this, maybe he would try and turn Buffy in a fit of desperation.
I still think it would've been a distinct possibility if they hadn't stopped... 'dating'.