The Xander

Articles like these get me mad because I feel they seek out misogyny, and create misogyny where there isn't any. Xander IMO is one of the most picked on and accused of sexism guy in the Buffyverse and it's irritating.The PC culture has gotten so extreme that a joke can't even be said anymore without someone screaming sexism.
I've seen worse articles than this directed at Buffy's beaus (or even Xander) that made me question some peoples grasp of reality. Angel and Riley the abusive douchebags (putting it mildly) while Spike is Prince Charming.

That's it really. I like Xander and I'm a woman and I have never in my life felt uncomfortable by anything he said onscreen and I have never felt offended. But that's just me. 🙂
My only problems with Xander in terms of women are BB&B, how he handles Buffy's rejection in Prophecy Girl and that he dates Anya at all. But that's pretty mild (except for BB&B) and it could have been worse. Like 'find her, wherever she is, tie her up and torture her' worse. Compared to that Xander was a Prince.
 
GraceK
GraceK
So many good points :)
I've seen worse articles than this directed at Buffy's beaus (or even Xander) that made me question some peoples grasp of reality. Angel and Riley the abusive douchebags (putting it mildly) while Spike is Prince Charming.
I think I've read that article before. Absolutely awful stuff.
 
I think I've read that article before. Absolutely awful stuff.
I wish it was just one. I've seen so many articles like that in the last few years (girls and women watching the show for the first time). You think to yourself 'oh boy, if they already think like that about Angel/Riley/Xander they are in for a rude awakening later on'. But nope. Because if they find the guy attractive or 2 people are hot together from their POV, all those standards fly right out the window. It's modern feminism in a nutshell.
 
The Bronze
The Bronze
It's a Riley focused one I'm remembering. Something about him being abusive because he was upset once or twice.
GraceK
GraceK
Seriously. If Warren was gorgeous I wonder if he would have gotten half the hate.
But nope. Because if they find the guy attractive or 2 people are hot together from their POV, all those standards fly right out the window. It's modern feminism in a nutshell.
i love when people hate Xander cause he was verbally abusive with Buffy a few times
but love Spike even though he physically abused Buffy throughout season 6.
 
Taking someone's free will away is wrong, period. It really doesn't matter if it's for 1h or 10 years. And taking their free will away with the expressed purpose to hurt them makes it even worse.

I guess it's a matter of opinion: Taking someone's freewill to get back at them for hurting someone and then it's over is less creepy than taking someone's free will to fall endlessly in love with them and have sex with them without their consent. What Xander did in BB&B IMO is mild compared to what Willow did to Tara in OMWF.


While Cordy might have fallen into that romantic trap there is no way she would have taken him back if she knew his actual intend. Not Cordelia freaking Chase.

But Cordelia freaking Chase is okay with someone who wanted to put a spell on her to make her fall in love with him and be his girlfriend forever without her consent.
 
but the fact that he doesn't mean there is zero problems with his character. I don't even think you'd say any of the above makes him flawless?

I didn't say Xander is flawless. Xander is rude, hot-tempered, irrational, immature... just think it's unfair that The Buffy is a brave strong woman, The Willow is smart lesbian, but The Xander is a sexist pig. Why can't he be defined by his great characteristics?
 
GraceK
GraceK
Perfectly said :)
But Cordelia freaking Chase is okay with someone who wanted to put a spell on her to make her fall in love with him and be his girlfriend forever without her consent.
I never said I was ok with it. It actually makes me mad. And Cordy as I know her wouldn't have taken him back. But it seemed like they wanted to lessen the fallout for Xander so Cordy had to be sacrificed. That's the only explanation I can find.

I didn't say Xander is flawless. Xander is rude, hot-tempered, irrational, immature... just think it's unfair that The Buffy is a brave strong woman, The Willow is smart lesbian, but The Xander is a sexist pig. Why can't he be defined by his great characteristics?
I don't think he is a sexist pig. Never said so.
 
He was joking. While there MAY have been a passive aggressive element to it, he was cracking jokes as he did through the episode, and as he does from seasons 1 to 7, often at his own expense as well as at the expense of others, but nearly always making fun of a dire situation or some other sort of gallows humor, as that's how he dealt with stress. Granted, there were other times he was a jerk (as they all were at one time or another, as Cordelia was to him in this episode), but saying that was his revenge fantasy is too much of a leap for me.

Agreed. I also think this could be interpreted as what Xander thinks a long-term relationship would turn out like aka like his parents' marriage. We know he had those worries in season 6 and it seems he's projecting in regards to Buffy and Angel. Xander dreams of flying in and saving the day and helping Buffy escape that scenario, possibly because he dreams of escaping that scenario in regards to his parents (and he wants to look like a hero for Buffy). Xander's Parents' marriage would've been Xander's first experience of what a relationship looks like and it was not a positive experience. That was bound to affect Xander later in life.

This might have worked better if they had chosen an actor less good looking than NB. TPTB have actually admitted NB was too attractive to play Xander. Early Seasons Xander was quite attractive in the looks department and quite a few found him hotter than DB/Angel.

Attractiveness is less about physical looks and more about personality. You could have a reasonably good looking guy but if he's an absolute arsehole then he's not going to be attractive. Likewise a guy who might not be classically good looking could have a lovely personality and would therefore seem more attractive to a woman than the first guy.

I think NB was a good choice to play Xander. He didn't look like the stereotypical geeky best friend therefore his unpopularity wasn't about how he looked but about who he was as a person.

My main problem with Xander has always been how he treated Buffy like a comic book hero come to life. She was always that hero first and a person second. He had different expectations of her than everyone else. Which is why when she failed his super hero standards things turned nasty. He expects her to be better and make better decisions than us mere mortals.

Xander certainly idealised Buffy as a hero, which is one of his flaws, so in that regard he did have unrealistic expectations of her which is why he struggles to accept her flaws. I think anyone who looks up to somebody struggles with this though, hence the saying "Never meet your idols".

The point isn't about Xander, it's about The Xander, the type of role a white, male character carries out in a female led show. Willow being in love with Xander, which sometimes made Xander look unsympathetic, doesn't make the author's point any less valid.

I think it can't be called "The Xander" unless it is about Xander as the author is suggesting that Xander epitomises the tropes which make up "The Xander". It's like you wouldn't describe "The Angel" as a cheerful, happy go-lucky guy. I think the author is wrong in her interpretation of Xander but to each their own.

I believe that's a reference to "C'mon, Buffy, I couldn't take advantage of you like that. Okay, for a minute, it was touch and go there..." A joke, though I do expect he had an ignoble impulse right along with his better ones.

Agreed. It would've been unrealistic for Xander to not have felt the temptation to give in to his urges when the woman he fancies is asking him to have sex with her especially as he is still a teenager. The point is Xander knew to do so would be wrong and he respected Buffy as a friend not to take advantage of her.

All in all, Xander screwed up big by getting Amy to cast that spell, but he's still a (pretty) good kid (of course he has his flaws), and not some misogynistic sexual predator.

Agreed. Xander makes mistakes, he screws up, but at the end of the day he is still a relatively decent guy who looks out for those he cares about.

Like 'find her, wherever she is, tie her up and torture her' worse.

We have different interpretations of that line. I don't think Spike meant nastily. Dru was into kink and Spike knows what she likes since he'd spent over 100 years with her. Spike isn't stupid, why would hurting Drusilla make her love him?
 
In Season 4, when Xander makes that 'what is Buffy wearing' joke, he's been 'over her' for at least a year.
There is no real Xander/Buffy in Season 3. In Season 3 Xander is dating Cordelia, cheats on her with Willow, sleeps with Faith and goes to the Prom with Anya.
Xander hasn't got time to moon over Buffy, he's got all that other action going on!

Also the 'what is Buffy wearing' gag is basically a self depreciating 'I gave an awesome pep talk but hey, I'm not that great because -stupid, horny joke- here'. It's just what Xander does. He does it to other people, but he mostly does it to himself. 'I'm a coward, I want a 'comfort lapdance', I'm kinda stupid' or whatever.

And yeah, Xander has faults; hot-tempered, loud-mouth, judgmental, etc. But he's not an entitled creep who follows Buffy around trying to what? force her to like him? When does that even happen?
This article is just inaccurate, about Xander and about two or three other shows that it name checks.

I mean, Pete Ross in Smallville is a side-kick who also has a crush on a white female friend 'cause 'why else would he want to be friends with Chloe' right?
There are other examples you can go to if you don't want to cherry pick your argument to fit a pattern you've already decided exists.
 
ITS A JOKE A PEOPLE A JOKE HES A COMEDIC CHARACTER HE MAKES JOKES GET OVER IT.

IT'S NOT A GOOD JOKE, OK AND IT MAY BE PROBLEMATIC TO THOSE SUBJECTED TO SIMILAR "JOKES" ALMOST EVERY DAY. And in the context of being a stereotype it shows how natural it is for people to think that women should just accept "jokes" like this, from friends, in their daily lives. Being a comedic character means he could've joked about anything, but the nature of the joke just proves that the archetype of "The Xander", is problematic because there's a lot of them, not because there is one of them. Again it's not entirely about Xander, it's about the archetype as presented on several shows and their common theme.

And f.y.i. I was using caps here to illustrated how rude it is to use all caps because no one likes to be SHOUTED AT.
 
IT'S NOT A GOOD JOKE, OK AND IT MAY BE PROBLEMATIC TO THOSE SUBJECTED TO SIMILAR "JOKES" ALMOST EVERY DAY. And in the context of being a stereotype it shows how natural it is for people to think that women should just accept "jokes" like this, from friends, in their daily lives. Being a comedic character means he could've joked about anything, but the nature of the joke just proves that the archetype of "The Xander", is problematic because there's a lot of them, not because there is one of them. Again it's not entirely about Xander, it's about the archetype as presented on several shows and their common theme.

And f.y.i. I was using caps here to illustrated how rude it is to use all caps because no one likes to be SHOUTED AT.

i'm sorry for using caps lock,not my intention to be hostile.
However Buffy clearly never had problems with those jokes now if Buffy in the show was uncomfortable with those jokes then sure i would agree with you but i don't see a problem with making a joke when atleast in the show the characters are okay with it and i doubt Xander honestly meant that he pictured Buffy naked,one of the main characteristics of Xander is that he makes immature and juvenile jokes im pretty sure he was just trying to lighten the mood as in the episode Buffy was pretty stressed out about college i doubt he was actually implying that he pictured Buffy naked.
And on the matter of accepting jokes Xander used to be subjected to jokes about how girly he was on a daily basis by Cordelia yet i don't see anyone making a "The Cordelia" post.
 
However Buffy clearly never had problems with those jokes now if Buffy in the show was uncomfortable with those jokes then sure i would agree with you
"Buffy" was written not to have a problem with it. As are all of the other female characters when similar instances happen, which facilitates it happening. Written characters have no say in the matter, only those who write them do.

i don't see anyone making a "The Cordelia" post.
Because Cordelia never really turned into an archetype the way the Xander character has. Not many other shows have a Cordelia, but a lot of them have a Xander.
 
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They had a mean girl. That archetype predated Cordelia. There was not a name for the Xander archetype, hence the Xander.
yeah but i just think its a bit hypocritical to name this entire negative thing after his character,there were plenty of misogynistic white guy characters in shows before Buffy but to specially single out Xander when he wasn't even the most misogynistic character on the show is a pretty hypocritical.
 
yeah but i just think its a bit hypocritical to name this entire negative thing after his character,there were plenty of misogynistic white guy characters in shows before Buffy but to specially single out Xander when he wasn't even the most misogynistic character on the show is a pretty hypocritical.
I think you're missing the point of it. It's not that he was a misogynistic character that made it the Xander trope.
 
I wish there were more male characters with The Xander trope. A guy whose best friends are girls. A guy whose hero is a woman. A guy who elected a woman to be their leader after the death of his other female best friend leader. A guy who told another woman that she was extraordinary. A guy who is so proud his role is "the heart" in a group of powerful women - the heart is considered a passive role and not musculain. A guy who knows that when a woman says "No" she means "stop" and he stops - that scene with Willow and the headache. A guy who is so in love with a woman, but knows that it's wrong to take advantage of her when she's under a spell even when she's throwing herself at him. A guy who never used the fact that he saved the heroine's life a hundred of times to force her into dating him. A guy who resented himself for being a useless loser but never resented his female friends for having supernatural powers. A guy who is incredibly brave and fights alongside powerful characters without a superpower to aid him.

Xander Harris is a realistic story of a boy who tries desperately to fit into the toxic masculinity society and gender expectations demanded on boys like him (just like Buffy was in the beginning) but then grew into a man who accepted who he is and was contented with his role.

Yep, can we have more realistic male characters like that on TV and less hunky bad boys.
 
GraceK
GraceK
Awesome post!!!
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