Things you would change about Bangel story...

[Mrs Gordo]

Wesley nailed the nail on the head when he asked...whomever, if he/she realized how rare true happiness actually is? And how most people live an entire lifetime without finding it. I would have liked to have seen, or at least Buffy and Angel make reference to, trying to satisfy each other but in inferior ways after he came back from Hell. So Angel isn't completely happy with the, let's say action or intimacy, he and Buffy perform in S3. Their inevitable break up could still occur, even in the same way. Unless i missed that completely, and if i did someone point me to it.
After Wesley's line about true happiness, I always thought something to the effect of. "Why don't they just pinch or poke or do something else unpleasant. Before Angel, you know."

I would honestly, drastically change both Bangel and Spuffy from what we were given. But that would take to long to explain. The above is just something minor while letting the show remain the same.

Yea, I honestly think that if they had stayed together they would have worked the sex thing out eventually, but so many other things kept them apart, namely Angel getting his own show (Ugh I hate it when that happens). In Season 3, everything from Angelus' reign of terror was so raw and both felt so guilty I think they were afraid of any intimacy for fear that they would be "responsible" for bringing Angelus back. That probably did more for keeping them apart than the curse itself.

Afterall, later in Angel they seemed to decide that Angel could have sex and David Greenwalt said "I've been dying to do the scene," he admits, "where Angel turns to a woman and says, 'You know, I can't know perfect happiness, but that doesn't mean you can't.'" And to bad he never got to do that, but at least it gave all of the fan fiction writers tons to work with lol.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

I would have had Buffy in You're Welcome instead of Cordelia.
I love Cordy and I do love that she finally got a proper send off and goodbye, but come on, we all know it should have been Buffy in that episode.
Also in the perfect dream that brings out Angelus, Buffy definitely should have been the one he was boinking in his dream and had the perfect day with. It made zero sense that his perfect day would involve romantic Cangel...

Buffy started Angel on his path and not Cordelia so she should have been the one to get him back on it.

Yea, I honestly think that if they had stayed together they would have worked the sex thing out eventually, but so many other things kept them apart, namely Angel getting his own show (Ugh I hate it when that happens). In Season 3, everything from Angelus' reign of terror was so raw and both felt so guilty I think they were afraid of any intimacy for fear that they would be "responsible" for bringing Angelus back. That probably did more for keeping them apart than the curse itself.

Afterall, later in Angel they seemed to decide that Angel could have sex and David Greenwalt said "I've been dying to do the scene," he admits, "where Angel turns to a woman and says, 'You know, I can't know perfect happiness, but that doesn't mean you can't.'" And to bad he never got to do that, but at least it gave all of the fan fiction writers tons to work with lol.

I agree that the possibility of Angelus being unleashed came between Buffy and Angel and Angel leaving. Even if Angel had not broken up with Buffy maintaining a long distance relationship would have been too hard and might not have worked.

 

[RomanticSoul]

This is a S3 issue mainly regarding the writing.

The age difference had been an issue since the first Season of the show but they very carefully avoided to address it in order to be able to do Bangel. So why does it suddenly become a topic at the end of S3? There is Marti Noxon's need to portray Buffy as a 12 year old with her 'Buffy&Angel 4 ever' doodles. There is Buffy in GD with her 'I'm talking about watching my lover die.' which is just so cringe worthy in so many ways. And of course it's a main point in the speeches the Mayor and Joyce give.

IMO it's a little too late to introduce the age difference issue. It should have been discussed or made in issue before Buffy turned 18, not after. Because by S5 the age difference thing is forgotten again when it comes to Spuffy. So it seems like it was just introduced as a reason to break Bangel up and not an actual issue regarding their relationship. Which is rubbish.

Buffy constantly changing her mind whether she wants to be with Angel or not. She changed her mind so much it gave me whiplash. Have her make a decision post-Scott Hope and when Angel is normal again post-Hell stint, and then stick with it. If Buffy decided to be with him they would have had the rest of the Season to address all the issues in their relationship. It could have been a slow burn if you will, that comes to a head towards the end of the Season. Instead of just once coming up (when she talks to Angel about college earlier in the Season) and then at the end it's 10 thousand issues all at once.

 

[Taaroko]

I think the main reason they didn't address the age difference earlier (or better) was that it wasn't actually the original plan. I don't have any sources for this, but I read somewhere that Angel was supposed to have been turned at age 19 or so. Somewhere between Buffy telling Joyce he was in his first year of community college and "Prodigal," they realized that David wasn't remotely convincing as a teenager anymore and changed it.

And yeah, turned at 19 or turned at 26, there's still the matter of him actually being 250+ years old, but at least for me, the vampire years have never counted in the same way as the human years. I have a theory that vampires can't really age mentally as easily as humans can, particularly because it seems likely they'd be stuck with the same hormone levels they died with. (And Spike is a pretty good case for the eternal immaturity theory, at least until he gets his soul.)

I was never bothered by the age difference anyway though, because Buffy is always the one in the driver's seat of their relationship, it's first love for both of them, Angel seems to have fallen for her very much by accident in the course of carrying out Whistler's assignment, and Buffy's role as the Slayer forced her to grow up fast in a lot of ways. They're colleagues. Equals. And until Kendra and then Faith show up, Angel is the only equal Buffy has in that sense, which is why she's so offended when he suddenly pulls the "I'm older and wiser" card to break up with her.

 

[RomanticSoul]

I think the main reason they didn't address the age difference earlier (or better) was that it wasn't actually the original plan. I don't have any sources for this, but I read somewhere that Angel was supposed to have been turned at age 19 or so. Somewhere between Buffy telling Joyce he was in his first year of community college and "Prodigal," they realized that David wasn't remotely convincing as a teenager anymore and changed it.

And yeah, turned at 19 or turned at 26, there's still the matter of him actually being 250+ years old, but at least for me, the vampire years have never counted in the same way as the human years. I have a theory that vampires can't really age mentally as easily as humans can, particularly because it seems likely they'd be stuck with the same hormone levels they died with. (And Spike is a pretty good case for the eternal immaturity theory, at least until he gets his soul.)

I was never bothered by the age difference anyway though, because Buffy is always the one in the driver's seat of their relationship, it's first love for both of them, Angel seems to have fallen for her very much by accident in the course of carrying out Whistler's assignment, and Buffy's role as the Slayer forced her to grow up fast in a lot of ways. They're colleagues. Equals. And until Kendra and then Faith show up, Angel is the only equal Buffy has in that sense, which is why she's so offended when he suddenly pulls the "I'm older and wiser" card to break up with her.

I wasn't bothered much in regards to the age difference either, in hindsight. But that was more due to the fact that we got more flashbacks of Angel's past and I realized that once someone is vamped, it's arrested development from then on so the soulless vampire years don't count. And that technically speaking Liam was young for his age. In that he reminded me more of those college guys who only go to college to party and drink and get laid. And Angel, once he got the soul, spend a lot of time by himself feeling guilty so there wasn't much in terms of development in his circumstances. It wasn't until BtVS that Angel actually started some kind of character development in terms of growing up.

For that reason and the fact that Buffy is driving the boat due to Angel's own inexperience with love, the fact he thinks he doesn't deserve her etc. is why the age difference doesn't bother me. But I wasn't talking about us the viewers. I was talking about in-show. No one ever made the age difference a topic. Vampire/human was a topic, especially with Xander, but never age. Hence the show suddenly making it a topic towards the end of S3 was out of place. If it was ever going to be a topic against Bangel it should have been one when Buffy was under 18. So it feels like it just suddenly was shoved into the show as another reason why Bangel shouldn't be together.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I'd have Angel go to the African Demon to remove his curse and restore his soul, that way Bangel could be together without the risk of Angelus.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I'd have Angel go to the African Demon to remove his curse and restore his soul, that way Bangel could be together without the risk of Angelus.

Yeah we don't talk about that anymore ok? It would make getting a permanent soul pretty easy and ruin the mystic of "the curse." So we will never ask anything about who the African demon was or how he restored the soul to begin with.

Similarly we don't talk about Mohra demons and how really Buffy should have a guns that shoots mohra demon blood at vampires to cure all vampires...

 

[Taake]

Similarly we don't talk about Mohra demons and how really Buffy should have a guns that shoots mohra demon blood at vampires to cure all vampires...

Woah, I never thought about that. Lol. Round up the Mohra demons, gees! We've got work to do 😛

 

[RomanticSoul]

Yeah we don't talk about that anymore ok? It would make getting a permanent soul pretty easy and ruin the mystic of "the curse." So we will never ask anything about who the African demon was or how he restored the soul to begin with.

Is that also why we don't talk about Willow getting Buffy's soul back from heaven without curses and clauses yet she still needs a curse to get Liam's into Angel again?

Similarly we don't talk about Mohra demons and how really Buffy should have a guns that shoots mohra demon blood at vampires to cure all vampires...

BAD IDEA!!! Soulless humans are worse than soulless vampires. Because they can't be dusted. So you'd have to built extra prisons or asylums and hope those poor things never get out or people will die. So unless Willow or someone else can ensoul vampires/humans on a massive scale and without curses and clauses, bad idea.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Similarly we don't talk about Mohra demons and how really Buffy should have a guns that shoots mohra demon blood at vampires to cure all vampires...

This could be an alternative to storing the dead in liquid nitrogen and keeping them in suspended animation until science finds a way to cure their diseases. Just have them sired and hit them with Mohra blood when medical knowledge catches up.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

BAD IDEA!!! Soulless humans are worse than soulless vampires. Because they can't be dusted. So you'd have to built extra prisons or asylums and hope those poor things never get out or people will die. So unless Willow or someone else can ensoul vampires/humans on a massive scale and without curses and clauses, bad idea.

Hmm interesting, so the body would become human again with no soul? I never thought of that. Right then, carry on.

 

[RomanticSoul]

Hmm interesting, so the body would become human again with no soul? I never thought of that. Right then, carry on.

Well of course. The Mohra blood is described as having regenerative powers, basically bringing a dead body back to life. But no indication their blood is so powerful that it automatically performs soul magic as well. If you use Mohra blood on a soulless vampire, you get a soulless human. And as we have seen on Angel, soulless humans are every bit as dangerous as soulless vampires.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I thought of something else that I would change. Angel should have told Buffy she looked pretty or beautiful or something complimentary at the prom.

I also wish Angel hadn't implicitly called Cordelia the most beautiful woman he has ever seen in WitW since I'm wishing for things.

I wonder are we supposed to think Angel thinks Cordy is more beautiful than Buffy? Hmmm....

 

[Mylie]

I thought of something else that I would change. Angel should have told Buffy she looked pretty or beautiful or something complimentary at the prom.

I also wish Angel hadn't implicitly called Cordelia the most beautiful woman he has ever seen in WitW since I'm wishing for things.

I wonder are we supposed to think Angel thinks Cordy is more beautiful than Buffy? Hmmm....

I think it was a figure of speech, but yes that annoyed me too!

 

[Grace]

"Don't be stupid. I'm that guy and the most beautiful girl I've ever seen is making eyes at me? It's either bachelor party or a scam."

See, "that guy" has never seen Buffy, so.... 🙂

 

[Mrs Gordo]

See, "that guy" has never seen Buffy, so.... 🙂

True story. Head cannon. Done.

 

[BuffyBot22]

I thought of something else that I would change. Angel should have told Buffy she looked pretty or beautiful or something complimentary at the prom.

I also wish Angel hadn't implicitly called Cordelia the most beautiful woman he has ever seen in WitW since I'm wishing for things.

I wonder are we supposed to think Angel thinks Cordy is more beautiful than Buffy? Hmmm....

Weren't they under some weird spell?
I like to think that it was the spell that caused him to say that.
Cordy is beautiful, but come one to Angel- Buffy should be who he thinks of as the most beautiful, or at least I want him to think that lol

 

[Evil Seal]

Weren't they under some weird spell?
I like to think that it was the spell that caused him to say that.
Cordy is beautiful, but come one to Angel- Buffy should be who he thinks of as the most beautiful, or at least I want him to think that lol

Yeah but come on, he's not gonna say to Cordy "you're the second most beautiful woman in the world"

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Weren't they under some weird spell?
I like to think that it was the spell that caused him to say that.
Cordy is beautiful, but come one to Angel- Buffy should be who he thinks of as the most beautiful, or at least I want him to think that lol

Sadly when he said the most beautiful woman quote he wasn't under any spell. Unless you call Dork!Angel a spell which I most certainly do! Lol. Anyway he never says "i think you are the most beautiful woman I have ever seen" he says that is what the old ugly fat security guard would be thinking. Still I don't like the line. At. All.

 

[Evil Seal]

Yeah but he can't spend his whole un-life being hung up on Buffy... He has feelings for Cordy so he expresses them. I liked that line