Thread for Questions Regarding the Time Out

[InsaneMystic]

Regardless of how it went down, which may or may not have been handled better, the admin was trying to do the right thing for the forum and all members. The heart at least, was in the right place. [...] Regardless if the actions of the admin and the staff were right or wrong, that is up for debate, the fact is that they were trying to do what they thought was best.

Sadly, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Something had to be done about the boards, that's true. And I do agree with Scobro's credit of trust that the intention behind the time-out was a good one. There can be no doubt that it was handled badly though, both in execution itself and in the "aftermath" - as this thread and the other clearly show. There's been more than enough people on that tempban list who, I guess, noone understood made it on it (I certainly didn't, even though I understand why others, even those I've agreed with a lot, made it on it) - and the best explanation we've heard from the staff's side reeks of "social experiment with the community as guinea-pigs". I understand what the point of adding more or less arbitrary people to the list was intended to be, I just wish that the staff understood and publicly acknowledged that any arbitrary move from the side of those in power is pretty much guaranteed to kill trust in the worth of the system, while staff that is consistent in their decisions but still admits mistakes they made (which, being human, we all do) will be respected for their integrity.

The way it stands now, I could easily understand a reaction of "if you're not safe playing by the rules, then the rules aren't worth adhering to in the first place." (Of course, a stance like this helps nobody who wants to have this board still around in six months from now, and I, for once, would happily have back BB as it used to be, it is a great place that I always loved.) In this way, a staff who comes across as arbitrary does, if anything, more damage to a board as a bunch of below-the-belt unruly members.... after all, everyone knows posters come and go, so you're not stuck with them forever (especially if they behave so badly that sooner or later, they'll get banned).

I think the distrust and hard feelings directed towards the board staff this action has caused are both understandable and are leaving me more worried about the "State of the Boards" than I was a week ago.

I think a little notice along the lines of "We still think the time-out was a good idea, but we apologize for mistakes we made in how we went through with it" could work miracles to repair the damage that has been done to the respect we used to have for the staff of this site; damage which I freely admit, some of the posts in the Questions thread have done to my own respect for and trust in them, too. At least I would be more than happy to regain said respect and trust if given half a chance, and I'm certain I'm not alone with that opinion.

 

[November]

 

[Lou]

I'm sorry, but this "explanation" is like the newspaper issuing a statement saying,
"Lately our police force has been ineffective. We've seen crime in town and that the towns folk are unhappy but have, so far, not been able to stop this.
So, our answer is, that tomorrow, the swat teams will be invading random houses in town. Some may have been perpetrators of these crimes, most will be hard working regular Joe's that people like, and some may be your children. These community members will then be thrown in the county jail for three days with no explanation why. While they reflect upon their own actions....of course, since we won't be telling anyone if they're actually guilty of crimes, you'll just have to reflect on reflecting. But, don't reflect on the actual events at play here.
Don't worry that in the past, only civilians that committed a crime were thrown in jail. You should be happy to be in jail because we've instructed the swat teams to tell you that this isn't a punishment as they close the jail cell in your face.
When the three days are over, we will remind you that this was for you're own good and happily let you go on your own way. We're sure you won't mind this small injustice. And, even though we've shown you that following the laws and trying not to break them doesn't save you from jail in mass numbers, we're sure you will now work hard to regain our trust and respect, even though you did nothing to lose it in the first place and that you will now be productive members of society...kinda like you were before."

And while I ALSO believe the intention was good, it turned out crappy. What's worse, is that the explanation shows no apparent acknowledgement of how people were hurt. And what's worse than THAT, is that I watched these people try to come up with well worded, thought out, and intelligent posts, (even though they were hurt and upset and in Gulag) to try to approach this in the BEST way possible. They could have marched in screaming and yelling obscenities and been fully justified in doing so. Because no where in the FAQs does it say that if you follow all the rules you could still be thrown out without explanation. If there is no need for the staff to stick to the rules, then there is no need for the members to.
And, yet, they did stick to the rules. And worked VERY hard on what they were going to say and I think their feelings need a bit more thought and consideration.

 

[The_Final_Cylon]

So, what has this changed exactly?
Is the new rule 'regardless of if you do anything wrong you can get a temp-ban'???
I don't get how that's improving anything. I don't understand what the mods thought they'd achieve by this?
I know I'm kinda knew so my opinion probably isn't regarded as valid but the only thing I can see that this has done is either made people have hostility towards the mods or made people scared to post what they think.

 

[Revolver]

Wow, am i like, totally like, the only one who aint bothered at gettin time out? Jeez, it was only a few days peeps!! 🙂

It's not that people couldn't access the boards for three days. Had the site been down for maintenance or something, no one would make a fuss. It's the principle of the matter. Some of these people (and I won't go so far as to say myself because I'm hardly unbiased in that area) haven't done anything, and there was no reason to punish them at all, however slightly. If the goal was to get people to be more friendly, we've taken the wrong avenue because this place feels less friendly than last week right now. Most of us will probably just move on, but others are moving on right out of the board and it's sad that it has come to that.

 

[definition of insane]

Late to the party, as always...

Anything I really would want to say regarding feelings of hurt, confusion and anger have already been said so I don't see any point on bring it up again. I will say a few things though, I have very little trust in the administation of this board now. I get you what you were trying to do, and while I can't speak for anyone else, I feel as though if I had been approached personally and asked to take some time off for the good of the boards, I would have because I believe this is a good place to be online and I would have done my part in keeping it so which much less of a fuss and a sudden boot out the door.

We all need to accept that this situation was not handled well on all fronts and try to move on. What else is there to do?

 

[Willowsgirl]

God, I wish this hadn't happen! I don't understand why the admin did it completely. I know I have only been here a short time, but I have only seen respect and have only gotten respect from my fellow members. A lot of the people that where given a time out are my friends and I was stunned that they where given the time out. I have gotten noting but kindness and respect from each one of them. They didn't deserve the time out they got.

It seems to me that the admins didn't really think this one out. They didn't realize the kind of backlash that this would incite. I am a firm believe that they didn't do it in order to be mean spirited, and really thought it would help, but they seriously should have thought long and hard before they just went and did it. They didn't give the entire board much notice before they went ahead with the time outs. One post a day or so before they went ahead and did it. That to me is unacceptable. There should have been fairer warning and room for discussion about what exactly the problems that people where having are. A chance for everyone to make their voices heard and see if we can work out these issues without this time out. I understand that the admins have a lot more sway over what happens on this board then the rest of us, but still everyone should have been able to speck out about this in a respectful manner and try to find a solution to this before such a rash action was taken. If there was anyway to avoid doing this rash action, I think the admins owned to everyone on this board to find it.

Call me a liberal hippie if you want, but I believe that if everyone got to discuss what was going on, that a different and better solution to these problems could have been found. This could have been done in a non-finger pointing, non-accusing, mature adult way. Instead the admins went the route of taking things into their own hands without any discussion. I don't think that is right. Communication is the key to any good relationship and it doesn't seem that the admins did a very good job at communicating their concerns about what was going on. They made a mistake and I do a believe, like a lot of you seem to, that they owe us an apology for the healing to begin.

I still plan on being here because I believe we can move past this, but this whole situation just sucks and I wish it never happened.

 

[Blondie Bear]

Let me add just a little bit to what everyone else has said.

I expected to be one of the banned. I knew it was coming. I was still disappointed that it happened at all, because frankly, I had done my best to rectify my part in the mess weeks ago, even going so far as to take a week off and discuss my faults with a few close friends who helped me understand what I had done wrong so that I could stop doing it. I felt like it was taken care of, that everything would be fine. And then I got put in time-out. At first, I was willing to accept it--I had messed up, after all--but then I found out how many other people, people who had done nothing wrong, were also in time-out. And I got mad FOR THEM. And many of them are STILL angry, as is evidenced in this thread, and I really can't blame them. I don't think it was right to mass-ban without some sort of attempt to find out exactly what was going on, who had tried to fix things, what had already been done to rectify the situations, etc.

BUT, as far as I'm concerned, it's over. We're back. Whether we decide to stay that way is an individual choice. I think this will have long-lasting implications for the future of the Board, and I truly hope they're good ones. I, for one, am tired of fighting.

 

[JenniferAlice]

I just feel deeply offended as a member, I always thought I went out of my way to be nice, kind, helpful to everyone. The friends I have made here have either been; the ones that went out their way and were friendly to me when I joined, or people who joined, and I returned the love, because it was what I was shown when I signed up here.
Now, because of this banning, I don't feel like a valid member, more like some sort of monster. It really doesn't give me the incentive to continue being as friendly and helpful as I once was. Your regime has ripped that all out from me. So, thanks for that.

 

[Willowsgirl]

I, for one, am tired of fighting.

I totally agree. Just so everyone knows my last post was NOT continue the fighting. I hope we all can move on through from this uglyness.

 

[Silum]

Let me add just a little bit to what everyone else has said.

I expected to be one of the banned. I knew it was coming. I was still disappointed that it happened at all, because frankly, I had done my best to rectify my part in the mess weeks ago, even going so far as to take a week off and discuss my faults with a few close friends who helped me understand what I had done wrong so that I could stop doing it. I felt like it was taken care of, that everything would be fine. And then I got put in time-out. At first, I was willing to accept it--I had messed up, after all--but then I found out how many other people, people who had done nothing wrong, were also in time-out. And I got mad FOR THEM. And many of them are STILL angry, as is evidenced in this thread, and I really can't blame them. I don't think it was right to mass-ban without some sort of attempt to find out exactly what was going on, who had tried to fix things, what had already been done to rectify the situations, etc.

Can I just ditto every single bit of that.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Ok, my turn...
I completely agree with so many statements in this thread. The last few weeks on the boards have not been fun for me in a few different ways. It's caused me a lot of stress and unneccessary grief, and even caused me to leave Merrick, which I never thought I'd ever want to do. Before this ban, I had been considering taking a sabbatical from the boards for a little bit. After going into IRC and having 5 people gang up to make you feel like an idiot because you disagree with them on something is NOT fun, and therefore I definitely see why the admin staff did what they did. I have been attacked here, whether or not people felt like that's what they were doing, and others have as well, from the PMs I've gotten. I'm not saying I'm innocent by any means and I fully admit to going a little far with certain things. I just think it's sad that the whole tone of the board has changed and that this new event is not seeming to make it any better.
As of last night I was ready to leave this board. I was upset and hurt and I just wanted to walk away from it. But that would be a sad, sad thing for me to do because as I've spent so much time here and gotten to know some really great people through this board. I went to bed last night just so exhausted from all the arguing that I decided I needed to think about it for a few days, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give myself a few days to think about things and get my head clear and then I'll decide what I want to do. In the meantime, those who have it can email me or whatever.

 

[Flannen]

I've debated for a while whether or not I was going to post anything in here and I decided that I do want to say something on the whole subject.

Like Blondie, I was rather shocked that I wasn't banned and when I then realised who had been 'timed out' I was even more shocked. I completely understand the feelings of those that did not have access for several days because for a lot of them it was completely unjustified. I fully acknowledge that I have made several impulsive, rash posts and became involved in some of the 'problems' although, in the last few weeks I made an effort to try and stay out of it.

For those guys who were banned, or whatever, you were all greatly missed, the boards were NOT the same without you and that is not meant to be of any offence to those of us who did remain here.

I think its a shame that people feel that the IRC has become 'exclusive.' I felt really welcomed when I first went on there and I am SO glad that I did because I got to meet some really great people, who are sadly now thinking of leaving.

Please do not leave guys. Most of you that were banned are my friends on here and I am completely on your side and sympathise with how you guys must be feeling right now. I know I should have been in the place of a lot of you guys as so many of you did not deserve it. And like Blondie, I want us to be able to get back to how it was, I miss you guys! 😀

 

[Fusions2]

I really wasn't going to post anything about this as I've actually not really known what was going on but I have got the gist of it. I've seen this sort of thing happen before on another forum and actually it was down to me telling the Admins that someone was being nasty to other forum members. Its horrible to have to do it but I think whats happened has been the only way to calm things down on here and stop people feeling like victims. I know its harsh in ways and I hated seeing people suddenly stepping out here especially ones I love seeing comments from and having a chat now and then.

If this hadn't have been controlled everything would be so much worse right now we'd have everyone dropping out like flies. I really don't like seeing people getting "timed out" because of things that they've done or said but I do think Buffy had absolutely no other choice. This forum is her baby and she just wants it to be a positive and inviting place. Sure everyone is going to disagree on opinions and argue but thats what happens not only on a forum but in the real world. Also its not nice to see this carry on even after Buffy has declared positive changes, give her and the rest of the Admin and Mod team a chance.

I may not have been here long but I've never seen big feuds like this happen and to be honest its pretty off putting to come on here and see all of this. I love this forum and everyone on it, its become a second home to me (after my own forum). To those who have been victimised and bullied I think its awful and yes its unacceptable, but punishment has been dealt, isn't that enough justice to at least wipe the slate clean for everyone or at least make a start?

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I was rather shocked that I wasn't banned and when I then realised who had been 'timed out' I was even more shocked.

If I had a guess, I'd say that you weren't banned because whenever you were being "argumentative," you were just defending yourself from being bashed (not to mention the fact that 9 times out of ten you were also right in the first place).

I'm still pretty surprised I was among the people banned, partly because 99.9% of my posts are just discussing current Buffy, Angel and Dollhouse occurrences.

I've had "run-ins" with a total of one person on the board, and I was the one who involved the mods/admins in the situation trying to find a resolution.

I did chide Silum and BillyIdolWannabe recently, but I'm pretty sure they both knew I was joking since we all get along very well.

I just think it's pretty surprising that my issues with one out of the 6,000+ members here resulted in my ban. Especially since that one member has had greater issues with two of the four senior admins on here.

In terms of clique-ish-ness, I honestly am unaware of the issue, because like I said, I'm not involved with that aspect of the board.

But in terms of personal attacks on the main parts of the board, I've only seen three out of the dozens banned EVER say anything remotely beyond a little snarkiness... and really, 3/36+ or 1/12+ isn't the most ideal success rate.

A warning would have been nice, but like BIWB, the actual ban didn't really create an issue for me (mostly because I didn't even know of the ban until an hour before it was lifted, since I was away for Memorial Day Weekend). In the end though, I think Buffy Summers may have accomplished what she set out to do. She made her point, and I have to give her credit where it's due.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Didn't Buffy say that people "on both sides of the problem" were banned? People who needed a time out because they took the forum too seriously or whatever?(Which seems weird, since several members say they have hardly posted here lately).

So maybe some "good" members were banned, just because they ... cared too much? Defended people too much?

I'm sure it's been said by Buffy, but I'm tired.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Hey guys i just wanted to post my opinion on this whole topic, i've just read through the whole thread and im shocked at how people didn't see a problem on the boards.

I say this as a member of the boards and not as staff but this boards needed something exactly like this, the way people had been acting towards eachother had gone so far beyond a joke.

I've been on the boards for a few years now and I've never seen it as bad as the way it had been, some new members were bearly making it past their welcome thread without getting their head bitten off. Others were starting discussions and all the replies back were "oh not this again" or "we've already discussed this!" like I couldn't imagine joining the boards the way they are now, I would be petrafied!

I think in this thread there are allot of out spoken people, but I think it has to be remembered that there are allot more members on here who won't speak up because they were to afraid of getting eaten alive on here, but they have raised the issue, we've had people complain about bullying or the boards being to clicky.

I think as well, its worth pointing out that yes, there were a certain amount of people who were sent on the break but this has effected everyone, there are people speaking as passionatly about the topic who wern't included in the time out, but are speaking as though they had, so if all this weekend did was raise awareness of the boards issues then i think its a good thing, its even been said by a few of you that there were issues or maybe you were concidering taking some time off anyway, so i'd like to think of the matter as having been brought to the spotlight, clearly there are people that are annoyed and fustrated with how it was dealt with but its not possible to make everyone happy, had it been done another way people would have been equally annoyed, but I think the feelings of frustration and anger were coming out on the boards anyway, so now its a way for us to move past it, to accept their was a problem, to recognize, even if you didn't like how, that issue has been highlighted and we need to move on.

I think its amazing the relationships that have been built on here, and I think unfortunetly something drastic had to be done or the boards couldn't continue, and I really hope many of you choose to stay and help build the boards back to all its glory.

Sorry for my spelling, I can't spell to save my life and have no spell checker, I'll correct it as soon as possible!

 

[DingOz]

Hmmm.

I know I don't have much of a credible reputation as of this moment, but I read through this thread in hopes to add my unbiased view on what has occurred...

From what I gather, there have been incidences of "cliques" and "exclusion" from the main group, mainly from the "IRC Chat"...

Here's the thing...

People who share the same views are bound to form bonds, no? Some people tend to click with certain people, and those are what we call friends, I would think. As long as no one is excluding or attacking anyone, having a little group of friends really should not be an issue.

Also, isn't the "Sorting Tome" adding to your issue of cliquishness? Having people have access to other areas where people are not allowed to is bound to make people excluded in one way or the other.

I'm a noob here, but I know, as a human being, justice should be carried out... and when people are speaking, especially a mass of people, you should listen. Snide remarks need not apply when people are talking about a serious matter. That's just blatant disrespect, and clearly gets you nowhere.

Anyone can feel free to let me know if I'm in the wrong here, I'm able to own up to my mistakes like an adult, fyi. Heh.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

"we've already discussed this!"

Ah. I've seen that as well, frankly it turned me off to this board as well.

However, I was able to see past that, because there are MUCH more welcoming people than there are rude ones.

There are ALWAYS going to be rude people, anywhere you go... however, if you don't let them KNOW what they did wrong, how are they ever going to learn that what they did was wrong?!

Also, I'm sure people who come on the internet message boards have a clear understanding that people can be hateful with their opinions, and that people know they have to come on the internet with a "thick skin".

Trying to make this a "safe haven" from the internet bullies is next to impossible if you deny the "wrong do-ers" their right to know what they did wrong.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

^its great that you were able to see past that, but not everyone can. This was my first message board, and if I had posted a new thread about something and got 10 replies saying "we've done this" I would not have started a new thread anytime soon. I think people don't remember what its like to join a message board for the first time, and yes crappy people are on the Internet but if you apply a little controll you can reduce the crappyness! Or I at least see the point in trying!

---------- Post added at 02:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

Sorry forgot the second part, the thing is about warnings they don't work, some of the people in the timeout were warned and didnt care, I honestly believe drastic action was needed.

 

[DingOz]

... but if you apply a little controll you can reduce the crappyness! Or I at least see the point in trying!

I'm not disagreeing with controlling the crap flying around these boards, I'm disagreeing with not letting people know what they did wrong, so the problem doesn't re-occur at a later date...

Like someone else said a few pages back, just putting a lid on boiling water doesn't solve anything, it's just going to bubble over later...

---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

Well, when people are apathetic about their actions, and know exaclty what they did wrong, but are refusing to change their behavior, that's when I believe a permanent ban is in order.

And not a general "Some people on these boards have been VERY naughty..." type of warning, but more of a PM telling them specifically, "You, DingOz, have broke the rules when you stated __________"...