Thread for Questions Regarding the Time Out

[Black Eye Guy]

the thing is what we did wasnt putting a lid on boiling water isn't what we did we took the pot off the stove. We done something big, with one action we've shown what's needed and we've shown we won't be letting things continue the way they were!

---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

Sorry we're like half a post behind eachother, the thing is we did something big we've let people know we're changing, from what I see there are strong bonds on here if we outright banned people, allot of friends would have been annoyed, this is one big notice of a change, as its been said before this wasn't a punishment it was a timeout from the boards, it was a reminder that although we love the boards their not our lives, this was something else that needed to be brought up to, everything was being taken so seriously on here.

 

[DingOz]

the thing is what we did wasnt putting a lid on boiling water isn't what we did we took the pot off the stove. We done something big, with one action we've shown what's needed and we've shown we won't be letting things continue the way they were!

The pot was taken off the stove for some people... Some people were apparently let slide, while others were singled out.

I'm sensing some injustice occured, but this is not my issue.

People weren't, to my knowledge specifically told what they did wrong, personally.

It's like disciplining a dog...

If you see them have an accident in the house, but aren't caught in the act, and you scold them, they are going to be confused as to why you are yelling at them.

If you see the dog doing the dirty work, and you scold them, and SHOW THEM what they did wrong, they'll have knowledge on what they're NOT supposed to do, and have knowledge of why they are being punished.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

"this wasn't a punishment it was a timeout from the boards"

So when children go to "time-out", it is a reward for them to sit in exile?

I don't buy "this isn't a punishment" as many people have stated. The word "Time-out" is only trying to put a positive spin on a negative response to wrongful behavior.

I just find it hard to believe that time-out and punishment are two different things.

 

[Revolver]

It's just semantics. It's not a punishment because they choose not to call it that. But it is what it is, and we were also told we were getting a second chance. You don't need a second chance if you haven't been punished.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

agreed except as it was said this wasn't an outright punishment, there were people that had been doing allot of crap things to other members for others it was a reminder that there is a whole world out there, as the small topics on these boards were being blown out of proportion. Like you can't really view not being able to access the boards for a weekend as a punishment. We love our members but it gets to a point were people are going crazy about karma and it just proves that the boards is in need of a massive overhaul!

 

[DingOz]

Hmm. Well, if it wasn't a punishment, why were people given "second chances"?

Like you can't really view not being able to access the boards for a weekend as a punishment.

Yeah, I do believe I can view it as a punishment, if it was directed at certain members and not at others.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

because the second chance applies to those who are being given a second chance. For others it was a break from the boards, a chance to highlight that there is more then the boards, give people a chance to do other things get away from the boards and get some perspective.

Yes it was done to certain members but if effected everyone, the boards were allot more quiet this weekend, everyone lost out this weekend with less discussions, but it was all to highlight this to the whole boards.

 

[Revolver]

In that case, why not just close the boards for a few days? It would have highlighted that there are other things in life besides the board (as if people don't already realize this) without making people feel like they were being picked on and creating a huge divide between the Mods and the rest of the Boarders.

 

[DingOz]

In other words, the second chance was given to those who received a punishment/time-out?

Others were given this "time-out"/ break without knowing WHY!

That is precisely my issue with this whole "time-out now, go to your corner" thing.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

You know what, I'll cop to falling into that last going crazy about karma-category, but, actually I just wasn't being clear in my correspondence with you guys (mods and admins). I could care less about the karma, my problem was that ONE member would criticize my posts as often as possible. If you look at my User Page, you'll see a lot of negatives, and they're ALL from ONE person! Crazy, huh?

I'll post something, get a dozen interesting and/or positive responses, out of the 6,000+ members, no problems except that same ONE member will call me "retarded" for the post. How is that not harassment? I don't think I've ever dealt with you Black Eye Guy, but I have dealt with Angelic Slayer, Kean, and Lindsey McDonald, and they're all super people, I've had nothing but praise for the mods whenever I've dealt with them, but the harassment from that one person was never remedied, even though I believe multiple mods talked to him (not about me specifically, I'd say he personally attacked dozens of members here including at least two mods/admins).

I didn't even know about the ban until just before it was lifted, and I don't care about the karma, but I do think it reflects poorly that 30 members were banned when Buffy Summers herself said moderating a single person could have been comparably effective. Personally, I wasn't even calling for a ban on that one person who was bringing the negativity, I just wanted to troubleshoot the problem, but the 30-person ban, without warning is what you guys went with instead.

Like I said before I think you guys accomplished what you were trying to do, and you made your point. But I think a troubleshooting session with the handful of people out of the 30 who actually were on the offensive would have been less controversial than banning ANYONE at all.

 

[yellowcrayon]

What you seem to fail to realize, and I'm not meaning to be harsh, I just want you to be able to see the facts of the case... you guys keep talking about losing out. In reality, those banned didn't lose out, and those not banned didn't lose out too much. The folks who lost out in a big way were the administration team.

The banning drew those banned closer together. *If* you thought they were a clique before, you've more reason to think so now. They were all banned and didn't know why, so of course, the common factor drew them together. They were determined to stand up for each other, and loyalty to one another was only increased.

What the banning ALSO did was further whatever divide that may have already existed on the parts of some with the administration.

What we are upset about is the complete and utter lack of professionalism in handling this issue, both before, during, and after. We are further upset by the fact that the administration and moderation teams completely disregard this and will not admit to being unprofessional. We don't care as much about being hurt by this. That we can get over. Unprofessionalism, however, is a different ball of wax. It creates a lack of respect, and even REASON for respect.

I don't think we're so much after apologies for hurting our feelings, but rather we would like an apology for the unprofessional behaviour shown to us during *and* after the bannings. It's one thing to ban people randomly, and it's an entirely different (and even more unprofessional) matter to try singling people out as was done with Edmund Blackadder. I mean really, what was the point of that? Trying to get us turned against each other so you could point fingers and say "See, this is why we banned you?"

We have come back and tried to be reasonable and civilized and respectful, and yet we feel like we've been treated as over-reacting, whining children and undeserving of professional, adult, and mature interaction.

We want to move forward, we really do. Please help us do that.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

there would be no point in closeing the boards for a few days. The thing is, you couldn't tell that people realize there's a world outside the boards, I know I keep saying it but look at the arguments people where having, over the smallest things, it did seem that nothing else mattered then creating arguments on the boards, or taking everything to seriously.

 

[DingOz]

there would be no point in closeing the boards for a few days. The thing is, you couldn't tell that people realize there's a world outside the boards, I know I keep saying it but look at the arguments people where having, over the smallest things, it did seem that nothing else mattered then creating arguments on the boards, or taking everything to seriously.

No point in closing the boards? You closed the boards for 29 people without warning, and that only added to the cliques of people here.

 

[Revolver]

there would be no point in closeing the boards for a few days. The thing is, you couldn't tell that people realize there's a world outside the boards, I know I keep saying it but look at the arguments people where having, over the smallest things, it did seem that nothing else mattered then creating arguments on the boards, or taking everything to seriously.

If the point was to show how there is a greater world outside of Buffy Boards, then stating this and closing the Boards entirely for a few days would have accomplished this as well (better, actually) as banning select members. The same point could be made, as no one would be able to access the board. A simple message stating, "Things have gotten out of hand. You want to see what things will be like without Buffy Boards? Everyone will for the next few days and this is what people will have to deal with and accept forever if they can't learn to respect one another" would have accomplished exactly what you were going for without all the terrible aftermath.

People argued over small things. Okay, but how serious were these arguments? I've argued with people on here, yes, but it's a message board. It's designed for sharing opinions, often differing. I can't recall many times when I've been seriously upset by an argument on here. The thing is, if we were trying to bring people together, we've gone far off-course. In the time I've been here, this is the most serious and divisive thing that has happened, far worse than any of the arguments I've had with anyone. The fact that many of us are still upset about this speaks to that. I feel a bigger rift in this place than I ever have in the (admittedly) short time I've been a member and I think it will be harder to truly heal it now than it was before. Several members (good ones, even) have left possibly forever over this.

 

[Lou]

While the sentiment of helping the newbies who get jumped on for posting something already posted is a sweet one, it's already been stated that people on "both sides of the issue" were given a time out.
Which, although, I'm not sure it's meant for THIS situation, what that says is that the people who jumped on the person for posting a repeat post were given a time out that also the person who was jumped on was given a time out. And there are plenty of instances of this. Punishing the victims the same as the perpetrators was just NOT right.
I'm sure that everyone would agree that jumping on newbies isn't the right thing to do. Even the people who might have done it.
However, that is not why people are upset. There are plenty of posts by people who have said they know they've done something wrong, but when they saw the list they were confused. People who hadn't even been here. People who rarely post. People who have done nothing but talk in the chat with no idea that just doing that put a target on their back. People who have never shown any signs of being anything but sweet to their fellow members and have worked hard to make this place what it was. And even people who did things long ago and had since apologized and worked things out with the members they had upset.
While I fully appreciate that this was thought to be a good idea and many of the posts, (especially Kean's) I think some serious looking into the boards and getting to know the people here is in order. This board is FULL of some of the nicest, most wonderful and welcoming people I've ever met. They honestly care and will drop their lives if you happen to be having a bad day and listen while you rant on and on in a rambling manner with little to no punctuation.
If sitting in the IRC is seen as bad, perhaps you should wander in there when you're having a bad day. Or log in as "guest 319" and see what they do.
No, not everything that has gone on lately has been a barrel of monkeys. But, the answer would have been either to watch and deal with new infractions more harshly with a statement saying you were doing so or close down the boards and give everyone a "time out". Show EVERYONE EQUALLY how being without the board can be. Sure, maybe not EVERY member is part of the problem, but not every member banned was either. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say not everyone deserved a time out and then also say it wasn't a punishment.

To flat ignore, post after post, that people who were victims or had done nothing to break, at least the posted, rules being thrown out like trash is the reason people are upset and NOT that the boards were always happy or that things weren't ever wrong or that people never got bullied, well, that's almost worse than the idea being implemented in the first place.

As for ignoring there is a world out there? You know full well that this kept people ON the computer all weekend. And if you truly thought that people would log on and say, "Oh lookie! I'm banned for no reason! Hmmmmm.......I think I shall now have a picnic" then apparently there is a special kinda of crack out there that the news hasn't been reporting on.

 

[Harm]

Ok, I'm good at putting things in a simpler sense, so, basically, what's being asked here is the people banned/those sticking up for them are basically saying they think an apology is in order for the unprofessional way this situation was handled. And for the mods or whatever to understand that this is why they are angry, which only makes sense.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I apologize straight away cuz I'm posting from an itouch so can't copy and paste stuff back!

From the first post people had the message before the break saying this weekend was to get away from the boards.

Bf - the thing is have a look through the posts of the members included I'd be supeised if you can't find examples of small issues being blown up, or getting into arguments.

Also I don't think trouble shooting with paticular members would do any good, also this isn't a job for us, this is suposed to be a fun place for us to, we can be going through every single thing with every single person. Thats just not practical.

Yc- the thing is all the banned gathering together is loseing out, not everyone who was in the time out saw it as a punishment, others have said they didnt. They wern't able to access the boards for 3 days, it wasnt a massive end of the world thing.

You've also said we were unprofessional, but I disagree, this isn't a job for us, its something we do to make this a good place for people to be, but it could be said that its disrapectful to us that we have to deal with issues like karma when we try focusing on things like house comps, fun events like the awards have the dorms which make this place so much more fun then other boards.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I apologize straight away cuz I'm posting from an itouch so can't copy and paste stuff back!

From the first post people had the message before the break saying this weekend was to get away from the boards.

Bf - the thing is have a look through the posts of the members included I'd be supeised if you can't find examples of small issues being blown up, or getting into arguments.

Also I don't think trouble shooting with paticular members would do any good, also this isn't a job for us, this is suposed to be a fun place for us to, we can be going through every single thing with every single person. Thats just not practical.

Let's be fair here, out of respect I'm not naming names, but the one person I took issue with was the same one person that Buffy Summers herself said that MOST of the people on here had their issues with.

So my issue with the guy wasn't a small issue blown out of proportion, it was a big one that bothered MOST members. Even forgetting my personal problems with him, he recently asked a new member to leave BB and mocked a girl who admitted to being a recovered drug addict. This wasn't my problem, it was the board's problem, and according to the Board's owner, it was the problem of the bulk of the people on here.

You guys should have just talked to him, I would have been happy to have collaborated on resolving whatever problem he had with me (though I don't think that the me vs. him thing would even comprise 1% of his unresolved BB issues). But now you've lost him as a member anyway...

 

[yellowcrayon]

Therein lies the problem, I think. You don't view it as a job. Is it too much work to go and talk to individual people about what SPECIFICALLY they did wrong? Or to ban JUST the people causing problems?

Whether or not you view it as a job, you are in a position of authority, and therefore you MUST behave in a professional manner. If you choose not to, you are not respecting us.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

st wanted to say I'm heading to bed not avoiding questions just have to be up in like 4 and a half hours! I'll come back to this tomorrow, cuz I strongly disagree that this whole thing was unprofessional or that an apology is due.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

You know what, I was nearly out of the door, had my coat on, gloves in hand and the taxi was beeping the horn when I decided I didn't want to just leave.

I decided I wanted to get a few things off my chest, so as a rational adult, I sent a message to Buffy Summers.

I'm not gonna lie to you, I've been waiting all day for the response, just because I felt I needed some closure from Buffy herself.

Then she did something that knocked me for 6 - she had a reasoned conversation with me.
OK, it didn't knock me for 6 because up until one aspect of this whole situation, I've had respect for Buffy.

We discussed that aspect, and I have to say when she explained why that happened, I had just learned some other things that I wasn't privy to before.

I still believe there were issues in what happened, but I am satisfied with my personal outcome to move beyond that now.

Again, I was almost at the point of leaving, when I've noticed a couple of posts that seem to suggest I am to blame for this entire situation.

Now, I'm never one to shy away from taking responsibility when it is mine, in fact it is that very quality that has saved me, my ability to apologise when I have been wrong, and be fully aware of why I am in the wrong.

Now that you're allowed back on the forum, maybe instead of focussing on all this negativity, you just get back to posting about the one thing we all seem to have in common - the love of All(most/some) thing Whedon.

There are alot of people going on here, arguing that they didn't receive warnings or anything - well thats actually a lie.
We ALL received one. From Faith.
It was 'signed' by a large number of people who come here too.

Alot of you are saying you have issue with the mods on this forum.
Well you don't have to like or respect them, you just have to respect the rules - if you can't do that, maybe it is time for you to leave (or at least have a self imposed time out).

With that in mind, I wish to finish my healing process (as I have already maturely discussed one issue with Buffy) over this whole thing by offering Lindsey McDonald a full and frank apology for the comment I left in this thread.

It was uncalled for by any standard, even though at the time I believed I was leaving, that is not an excuse.

I do not wish to carry on any personal fueds with anyone because I do enjoy my time on this forum.

This whole issue became live exactly 24 hours ago, I we're just reiterating the same points and its not getting us anywhere.

I for one have put a line underneath this entire situation and will continue posting (even though I am a little red-faced because I said I was leaving and didn't).

Thanks

EB