Tillow: Loved because of the controversy?

Okay, let's "˜fess up right at the start. From my point of view, sure, the lesbian angle is a huge draw, both from a sexual and an emotional aspect. It's got to be admitted, yes, and can't be denied that it is a factor. Or perhaps hook is a better way to term it: The fact they are lesbians is a hook that catches my notice and thus makes me initially pay more attention to them.

However, if you are thinking lesbianism is the only reason for liking Tillow (or Fuffy for that matter Cait) you are doing people (and let's be honest, you mainly mean male shippers), the character, and the couple itself, a great disservice; Tillow is far, far more than only about what these two girls do in bed.

Until Faith came along I loved Willow the most of all the characters on the show right from "Welcome to the Hellmouth." For 3 years there was no hint of lesbianism, yet she was still utterly adorable, interesting, loveable, funny and complex. I rode along with her emotions, aching for her unrequited love for Xander, wanting him to notice her and see she was as wonderful as I knew she was, and then I was bursting with joy when she found love and happiness with Oz.

Until Tara came along.

From that very first scene with the Daughters of Gaia seated in a circle, and little shy mousy Tara sneaking glances at Willow from beneath her hair, I felt their connection. It was like an electric jolt. They instantly fit. Understood each other on a whole new level than what they'd had with other people before. Words were not needed between these two, which was kinda the point of the whole silent episode.

Do you think that anyone who enjoys the lesbian aspect would be too shallow to get the symbolism of their joining of hands to move the vending machine to barricade the door, for example? That when they came together, joined hands, their souls fit together as perfectly as entwined fingers do. They'd found the other half of their soul. Between them there was a much stronger magic, and that too is a metaphor.

Tillow is so awesome and well loved because of its depth and power. Their love is totally undeniable. If ever two people were destined to be together, then it is these two. I genuinely believe and feel that Tillow is as beautiful an example of everlasting love as has ever been written. They are Romeo and Juliet for the modern age.

So, as a male do I LIKE them because they are two girls having sex? Hell yes!
Do I LOVE and ship them because of their romance, characterisation, love story and emotion? Yes: deeply, completely, forever and ever.
 
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eponinethen
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To me, about the only difference between Kennedy and Parker is that at least Parker didn't drag anything out with Buffy.

I was right with you up to the 'Parker is better than Kennedy' bit 😱 that's just plain WRONG 😛 (

(Kennedy is, at the very least, honest!)
 
However, if you are thinking lesbianism is the only reason for liking Tillow (or Fuffy for that matter Cait) you are doing people (and let's be honest, you mainly mean male shippers), the character, and the couple itself, a great disservice; Tillow is far, far more than only about what these two girls do in bed.

Ok, so I know this is a tad off topic for this thread... but isn't the appeal of Fuffy the sexy girl on girl/slayer on slayer action? You mention here that liking Fuffy because it's hot is a disservice... but isn't that the appeal of the ship?
 
The appeal of Fuffy is how beautifully the two balance each other out. They are so similar, and yet each is what the other is not. They are truly two sides of a very attractive coin.

The angst potential of them, the potential cuteness that Buffy could bring out in Faith, the delicious banter they share, the fun of deciphering subtext, their experience as slayers that only the other can truly understand... that is the appeal of the ship.
 
The appeal of Fuffy is how beautifully the two balance each other out. They are so similar, and yet each is what the other is not. They are truly two sides of a very attractive coin.

The angst potential of them, the potential cuteness that Buffy could bring out in Faith, the delicious banter they share, the fun of deciphering subtext, their experience as slayers that only the other can truly understand... that is the appeal of the ship.

I see where you are coming from but I suppose the issue I have with them being a long term thing is that they don't balance each other out at all. If anything they make each other's lives more chaotic.
 
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xfivebyfive
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zobothehobo
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caitaintdead
caitaintdead
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For the record, non-canonical slash pairings such as Fuffy and Spangel are usually born when two hot people of the same gender frequently get all up in each other's faces. Such is not the case when the people involved are, you know, actually gay.

Tillow is one of the very few same-sex pairings in the fantasy/sci-fi genre however.
 
Okay, let's "˜fess up right at the start. From my point of view, sure, the lesbian angle is a huge draw, both from a sexual and an emotional aspect. It's got to be admitted, yes, and can't be denied that it is a factor. Or perhaps hook is a better way to term it: The fact they are lesbians is a hook that catches my notice and thus makes me initially pay more attention to them.

However, if you are thinking lesbianism is the only reason for liking Tillow (or Fuffy for that matter Cait) you are doing people (and let's be honest, you mainly mean male shippers), the character, and the couple itself, a great disservice; Tillow is far, far more than only about what these two girls do in bed.

While I agree that Tillow is far, far more than what two girls do in bed and that it might be a hook for some, for others their being lesbian IS the only reason. I've seen other boards where this happened and I know personally in my day to day life I've met people who are only interested in things that reflect them. I've had many gay friends who only wanted to participate in something if it was LGBT related and nothing else.

For me, I just like Tillow and I like it as equally as I like Woz. Initially though, what drew me to watching the series was the fact Willow was getting with a girl. I forgot how I heard about it, but then I'd go into my room and lock the door just so I could watch Buffy to see this storyline unfold. I've had thoughts as to why but nothing totally concrete yet. However, that was really the only reason I liked them to begin with, but as I saw their relationship more, I liked it for other facets.
 
You mention here that liking Fuffy because it's hot is a disservice...

What I actually said, Zobo, is that thinking that lesbianism is the ONLY reason for liking Tillow or Fuffy is doing a disservice. The lesbian angle is a facet - a hot, sensual and beautiful facet - but there are many more reasons for shipping them too, as I have listed. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and, yes, some people will only be interested in their sex life alone. However, you'll find that the majority of fans only see it as a small part of the ship. It's an important one, definitely, but then so are all the other aspects of their relationship and interaction.


... Fuffy the sexy girl on girl/slayer on slayer action? ... isn't that the appeal of the ship?

The appeal of any ship is going to be very personal to the shipper themselves. Each shipper will see and take something slightly unique out of the relationship, and it is quite possible for two shippers to love the same ship yet for totally opposite reasons and views.

Again, you are correct in part: Some Fuffy shippers will ship them purely because of "the sexy girl on girl/slayer on slayer action." There are times, depending upon my mood, when that's what I want from the ship when imagining it, too.

However, for me it is far, far deeper than the merely sexual. The Fuffy ship is one all about fiery, intense passion. Note that I say passion, and that passion doesn't just mean sex. Buffy and Faith, with the exception of being Slayers, have nothing in common and are as polar opposite as it is possible for two women to be. However, it is that very fact that draws me to them. Their attraction is truly complicated, but is powerful and compellingly magnetic. In fact, they don't just connect despite their differences, they connect because of them.

I know this will probably outrage everybody, but I tend to think of Tillow as being the lesbian version of Bangel, and Fuffy as being the lesbian version of Spuffy. If I want gentle, soft, romantic, deep and eternally loving soul-mates then I'd explore Tillow/Bangel, but if I am looking for rough, complicated, fiery and intensely passionate love to overcome all obstacles then I'd go to Fuffy/Spuffy. I'm generalizing here, of course, but does that make sense?
 
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zobothehobo
I was with you until "Fuffy is the lesbian version of Spuffy." The rest of it kind of make sense... I'll never fully understand Fuffy though.
Was Willow and tara the first network kiss?! I didn't know! That makes me so happy and proud! Yeah, waaaay late, should've happened like a 100 years ago imo, But still, what à  way to start! 😀 Me who watched it long after it aired just thought it was annoying that it took so long before they did. Now I understand so much more! Must've been huge! Dud anyone watch back then?

As for fuffy, i love them. For me it's absolutely not about hot girls. I just think they'd make a great couple. But this is not a fuffy thread so I won't jump in my fuffy defender tank 😀
 
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xfivebyfive
lmao Fuffy defender tank :D
I'm a straight girl so why would I like them just for being lesbians?
'Cause you're for equal rights and any type of relationship to be shown on network television in any type of TV show?

For me, Willow, her nerdiness and the fact that she was in a lesbian relationship was why I started watching BtVS (when season 4 aired on Swedish TV). It was definitely a political thing for me, as well as the fact that I identified a lot with Willow as a character. So I guess I will be the first person to say hell yeah, the fact that Tillow was a lesbian couple is a big reason why I liked them so much. That stuff is important. I was super sick of seeing only heterosexual couples on TV. Or messed up sad lesbian love stories. I love the lesbianity of Tillow. Mhm.

As for fuffy, i love them. For me it's absolutely not about hot girls.
....... Really? Fuffy for me is definitely about hotness. Oh my the hotness.
(Where's Fran when I need her?)
 
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M
Mindfiend
Bravo!
For me, the sex of two people in relationship doesn't even factor in when I decide whether I like them together or not. It has nothing to do with "Oh, hey, hot lesbians! Hurr, yay!" We're also going to put on the table that I didn't think either of them were particularly physically titillating.

For me, Tara and Willow were quite obviously soulmates. Their relationship was beautiful, gripping, and real. They loved each other so thoroughly, and it was so plain to see. I see them on screen, and I just have to smile and think, "One day, I want a love like that." Love that transcends and consumes, but never burns out; A love that is just so beautiful, so natural, that it makes you go "Huh...I can't believe they were never together before."

Joss and co had a way of writing these relationships, of picking these actors with this amazing chemistry that, at the end of the day, no matter how brief or long lasting the relationship was, you knew, and could say, "Hey, they were really meant to be together." Tara and Willow, in my eyes, at least, were a shining example of that. I loved Willow/Oz, they were very sweet together, I even didn't mind Kennedy/Willow, despite that everyone absolutely HATES them, but Tara and Willow...That was a love that you couldn't ever truly break apart, no matter how hard you tried.
 
M
Mindfiend
Karma for being able to see the true romance of love itself. Your viewpoint is written with a beauty and clarity that is genuinely touching.
I love Tara and Willow together, it's actually one of my favorite couples on the show, but lately I've been thinking that some people probably loved them for the fact that they were lesbians.

Do any of you Tillow shippers or otherwise feel that way?

I'm a Tillow shipper. I'm not sure I feel like people ship them/or love them because their lesbians.
 
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