Top Three Topics That Never Found Peace

First of all, I do not see this from any character's eye level, I see it from actual combat military experience, and, whether anyone chooses to agree or not, what was going on in Sunnydale at that time was most certainly war, and Buffy and the others were the army that was on site to face the First Evil and its minions. It was completely fine with everyone for Buffy to be the one in charge as long as that meant that she was the only one doing the fighting and bleeding, and as long as the risks were taken by her while they sat all warm and comfortable under her roof, behind her closed doors.

Then, suddenly, the Potentials have to start sharing in the pain and the danger, and they are ready to elect, or more accurately appoint, a new leader, a leader who they knew next to nothing about. (Incidentally, I have no ill feelings for Faith for taking command once it became obvious that Buffy wasn't going to stay. She was the next logical one to lead) I find it ironic that, after the first time that Faith leads the others into battle, and the casualties that it incurred,(while Buffy's own plan, returning to the vineyard, had proved successful) leadership of the group went back to the very person who they had rejected in the first place.

Being the leader of an army means that you sometimes have to send your troops to their death. As Wes said when he was the leader of the Pylean insurgents in Season 3 of "Angel," the decision sometimes boils down to sacrificing a few so that the majority can live. The fact that Buffy regretted those losses was obvious, but just as obvious was the fact that they were unavoidable, based on the information that Buffy had to work with. Caleb "had something that belonged to her." As far as she knew, that might have been a Potential, or several, or, as it turned out, the very weapon that she needed to win her war. Certainly, as Giles pointed out, it could just as easily have been a stapler, but it was Buffy's decision, as leader, to make, and she made it. The Potentials were, as far as we know, free to leave anytime they chose to do so. There were obviously plenty of vacant houses available by that time.

That isn't to say that Buffy didn't make mistakes in this matter, because she most certainly did. Before announcing her plans to the entire group, she should have met, privately, with Giles, Willow, and Faith (Spike and Xander being absent at the time) to explain her plans and discuss specific strategies, and be sure of their support. Once that was done, she could have presented her plans to the Potentials and Wood, along with an alternative for anyone who chose not to agree: an open door, and sincere well wishes on their trip through it.

No one in their right mind wants to risk their lives, not for any cause, regardless of how noble that cause might be. And no one in their right mind wants to send others to die. Sometimes, however, it becomes necessary to do either or both. Buffy's decision to return to the vineyard was the right one, and she was, ultimately, proven right in that decision. But because of the lack of support of her "friends" and troops, the risk that she took in proceeding with that plan was increased tenfold or even more.

That's all well and good but we're talking about 15 year old girls not soldiers who choose to fight a war. I'm sorry but Buffy's mission was fool hardy. She realized, like I did, when it was all said and done, she was the only person who could have and should have gotten the job done and she did. No potential deaths. No scoobies losing eyes. Why send a bunch of inexperienced girls to die when Buffy clearly was able to take out Caleb all by herself with no casualties? Everything worked out best as it happened. Buffy would've felt guilty after wards when she realized how many of those girls died because of her, that didn't need to. Not to mention if half or more of the potentials were killed, there wouldn't be in army left to go into the hellmouth in 'Chosen'. Which by the way, Buffy makes it clear, going into the hellmouth was an OPTION, shows she had grown from the whole 'Empty Places' debacle IMO.
 
"Kick his ass"

Ok the problem with this is not what he says in itself but what he says in context with how he feels about Angel.

1) When he first found out Angel was a vampire, he believed he should die.

2) He's never liked the idea of Angel being Buffy's boyfriend

3) Not only that, he made a case against re ensoulling Angel not for the greater good but because he felt that re ensoulling him would be forgiving him for his acts of evil

4) He was happy for Giles to go after Angelus without a second thought of the implications to Giles safety.

So looking at the context we can't simply assume that Xander was thinking about greater good, or at least we can't assume his intentions were all noble.

More later... but gtg.
 
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"Kick his ass"

Ok the problem with this is not what he says in itself but what he says in context with how he feels about Angel.

1) When he first found out Angel was a vampire, he believed he should die.

2) He's never liked the idea of Angel being Buffy's boyfriend

3) Not only that, he made a case against re ensoulling Angel not for the greater good but because he felt that re ensoulling him would be forgiving him for his acts of evil

4) He was happy for Giles to go after Angelus without a second thought of the implications to Giles safety.

So looking at the context we can't simply assume that Xander was thinking about greater good, or at least we can't assume his intentions were all noble.

More later... but gtg.


On the other hand,

1) We have Kendra demanding Angel should be killed and then Xander saying, "Angel is our friend, except I don't like him." He doesn't like Angel, but that doesn't mean he wants him dead.

2) Ever since Angel lost his soul and became a murderer, Xander never said "I told you so" or even made snarky remarks. He was being supportive and considerate to Buffy, until Angel killed one of them and caused Giles pain. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Xander cheering Giles on to kill Angel, by that time, he was fed up. He'd been patient about it and gave Buffy all the time she needed to deal, but when things started getting really bad, something should be done. And Angel should be stopped.


I agree that dislike and anger at Angel were reasons for Xander's lie, but fear and worry about the world ending were also a factor. What I can't agree with at all is accusing Xander of being jealous, because if jealousy was a factor, Xander would have cheered Kendra on to kill in Angel instead of defending him.
 
On the other hand,

1) We have Kendra demanding Angel should be killed and then Xander saying, "Angel is our friend, except I don't like him." He doesn't like Angel, but that doesn't mean he wants him dead.

2) Ever since Angel lost his soul and became a murderer, Xander never said "I told you so" or even made snarky remarks. He was being supportive and considerate to Buffy, until Angel killed one of them and caused Giles pain. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Xander cheering Giles on to kill Angel, by that time, he was fed up. He'd been patient about it and gave Buffy all the time she needed to deal, but when things started getting really bad, something should be done. And Angel should be stopped.


I agree that dislike and anger at Angel were reasons for Xander's lie, but fear and worry about the world ending were also a factor. What I can't agree with at all is accusing Xander of being jealous, because if jealousy was a factor, Xander would have cheered Kendra on to kill in Angel instead of defending him.

I also have to agree that jealousy haven't motivated it at the time. And I belive it because he had Cordy at the time, maybe they weren't together, but some feelings were there. True, they annoyed and provocated each other, but after some time that turned into passion. Maybe, if he haven't had someone in his life at the time, maybe the situation would be different.

But, as a friend, he shouldn't say that. Yes, Angelus should be stopped. Xander wasn't mad at him, because deep inside he knew it's not his fault, but he really didn't cared. He saw only what he has done, which is ok, most of us would act like that. But, like a true friend to Buffy, he should ignore that and think about how she's feeling. I don't think he ever used some time to think how she's feeling or to put himself in her shoes.
 
Kick His Ass
Xander said this because he wanted Buffy to kill Angelus and wanted to be there to see it happen. He also made a descision that wasn't his to make. The right thing to do would have been to give Buffy Willow's message and let her decide how if at all she would use it. It most likely wouldn't have changed the outcome but Buffy still should have known.
 
But, like a true friend to Buffy, he should ignore that and think about how she's feeling. I don't think he ever used some time to think how she's feeling or to put himself in her shoes.

I think he did consider her feelings and how much it hurt her between Innocence and Passion. Remember the scene in Phases? When Xander hugs Buffy after Angelus sent a vampire after her to kill her? That shows a lot of understanding, and he never screamed "Kill Angel" until Jenny was murdered. That's when it became real and Xander couldn't stay quiet anymore.

Sadly, by Becoming, Xander seemed to have lost trust in Buffy's ability to kill Angel -which I think is also another reason why he lied.

Here's what Joss says about it:

"The Xander betrayal issue... hasn't come up with us, and here's why. Xander made a decision. Like a general going into battle, he had to keep Buffy's fighting spirit strong and he felt telling her the truth would blunt it. And Angel needed to be stopped. It was a tough decision, and an unpopular one, but I'm not sure it wasn't the right one. I'm on the fence, and that's what makes it FUN! So there." (joss, Oct 20 21:42 1998).
 
But, like a true friend to Buffy, he should ignore that and think about how she's feeling. I don't think he ever used some time to think how she's feeling or to put himself in her shoes.

Xander has in a way already been in Buffy's shoes. Remember Jesse? Buffy and Giles told Xander that Jesse was gone for good and to try to stake him if he had a chance. They were right, of course, but it's not hard to fanwank that Xander might think it unfair Angel got to have a get out of jail free card while Jesse turned to dust. Also, we shouldn't forget that cursing Angel again wouldn't remove the loophole so he would still be pretty much a disaster waiting to happen.

More importantly, the fate of the world should have a much higher priority than Buffy's feelings. Especially considering said feelings were the root cause for the whole mess in the first place. And mere hours before "The Lie" Buffy tried to stall for time when she fought Angel and this led to Kendra's death and Willow's coma. Can you honestly say Xander had no cause whatsoever to doubt in Buffy's ability to dust Angel?

Also, it can be argued that Xander lied exactly because he is a friend of Buffy and didn't want to make her task any harder by giving her false hope. If he didn't care about Buffy's feelings he could have dodged the burden of responisbility by telling her the truth and left her with a terrible dilemma. Friends tend to do that sometimes. Do you also blame Buffy for not telling the gang about Dawn or about being in Heaven?

Xander said this because he wanted Buffy to kill Angelus and wanted to be there to see it happen. He also made a descision that wasn't his to make.

What makes Buffy more qualified to decide what to do than Xander? Arguably she is more biased and emotionally invested in the situation than him.
 
I think he did consider her feelings and how much it hurt her between Innocence and Passion. Remember the scene in Phases? When Xander hugs Buffy after Angelus sent a vampire after her to kill her? That shows a lot of understanding, and he never screamed "Kill Angel" until Jenny was murdered. That's when it became real and Xander couldn't stay quiet anymore.

Sadly, by Becoming, Xander seemed to have lost trust in Buffy's ability to kill Angel -which I think is also another reason why he lied.

Here's what Joss says about it:

"The Xander betrayal issue... hasn't come up with us, and here's why. Xander made a decision. Like a general going into battle, he had to keep Buffy's fighting spirit strong and he felt telling her the truth would blunt it. And Angel needed to be stopped. It was a tough decision, and an unpopular one, but I'm not sure it wasn't the right one. I'm on the fence, and that's what makes it FUN! So there." (joss, Oct 20 21:42 1998).

Sure, he was supportive at the moment. He was what she needed. A true friend. But then again, his reaction when they found out they can restore Angel's soul was wrong. And when he found his true love, he was just as selfish as Buffy and wanted to save her. He wasn't a big support back then, he was harsh.
Plus, he lied in Willow's name. He said that she said that. Maybe if he said that in his name, it would be ok.. harsh, but we would get over it. Buffy spent all those years thinking Willow said it. And that's not ok. Plus, it affected Buffy, because we saw she never forgot it.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

Xander has in a way already been in Buffy's shoes. Remember Jesse? Buffy and Giles told Xander that Jesse was gone for good and to try to stake him if he had a chance. They were right, of course, but it's not hard to fanwank that Xander might think it unfair Angel got to have a get out of jail free card while Jesse turned to dust. Also, we shouldn't forget that cursing Angel again wouldn't remove the loophole so he would still be pretty much a disaster waiting to happen.

More importantly, the fate of the world should have a much higher priority than Buffy's feelings. Especially considering said feelings were the root cause for the whole mess in the first place. And mere hours before "The Lie" Buffy tried to stall for time when she fought Angel and this led to Kendra's death and Willow's coma. Can you honestly say Xander had no cause whatsoever to doubt in Buffy's ability to dust Angel?

Also, it can be argued that Xander lied exactly because he is a friend of Buffy and didn't want to make her task any harder by giving her false hope. If he didn't care about Buffy's feelings he could have dodged the burden of responisbility by telling her the truth and left her with a terrible dilemma. Friends tend to do that sometimes. Do you also blame Buffy for not telling the gang about Dawn or about being in Heaven?



What makes Buffy more qualified to decide what to do than Xander? Arguably she is more biased and emotionally invested in the situation than him.

Sure I remember Jesse, but I could never compare those two. I never got to know Jesse, to love him, to see how characters love and feel about him. I only saw Xander had a hard time, but that was never mentioned again in the show. So I really don't know how I could compare a character who was there for two episodes and never mentioned again with a character I got to know a love.

I thought this is a thread where we discuss some things we think were done wrong in the show, some things we never accepted as good, not the facts. End of the world on the side here, we're discussing what was the right thing to do. Buffy's ability to kill Angelus Xander should never doubt. Xander knew Buffy, he knew she'll done whatever she has to. Buffy was ready to kill Angelus, she wasn't ready to kill Angel. That's because she got so hurt.

Yes. I do. About Dawn part. About Heaven part, I don't know, she probably didn't wanted them to feel bad. Xander shouldnt've to lie, that's a fact. Buffy knew what she has to do. She knew once the portal is opened she'll have to kill him. Maybe, if she knew, she would try to keep Angel away from it while Willow is doing her magic. But that's just guessing, but I belive she wouldn't break down. She would probably fight harder to keep him alive.

Because Buffy had to do it. Not Xander. It was her job, Xander could never kill him. She had to kill her love. That's why her decission is more important. Xander would kill him if he had a chance, but Buffy, for her it was harder.
 
On the other hand,

1) We have Kendra demanding Angel should be killed and then Xander saying, "Angel is our friend, except I don't like him." He doesn't like Angel, but that doesn't mean he wants him dead.

Absolutey, but in context with Becoming, Xander was dead set against even the chance of Angel getting his soul back...

2) Ever since Angel lost his soul and became a murderer, Xander never said "I told you so" or even made snarky remarks. He was being supportive and considerate to Buffy, until Angel killed one of them and caused Giles pain. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Xander cheering Giles on to kill Angel, by that time, he was fed up. He'd been patient about it and gave Buffy all the time she needed to deal, but when things started getting really bad, something should be done. And Angel should be stopped.

I understand that but he was cheering Giles on without considering the implication that he'd be in danger. This at least demonstrates that on at least one occasion Xander wanted Angelus to 'get his' without thinking about the consequences. This doesn't invalidate that Angelus needed to be stopped in general or even that spell may not work or would put Buffy or Willow respectively at risk, but immediately prior to his lie, he didn't give those reasons. Of course it's completely possible that his reasons were totally noble, but I can't ignore the context completely and at least admit the possibility that his reasons were personal. Even if they were, I'm not that bothered, it's hardly the worst crime commited is it? And there is NO evidence that his lie affected Buffy for the worse in regards to the fight.

I agree that dislike and anger at Angel were reasons for Xander's lie, but fear and worry about the world ending were also a factor. What I can't agree with at all is accusing Xander of being jealous, because if jealousy was a factor, Xander would have cheered Kendra on to kill in Angel instead of defending him.

The jealousy was one of many reasons, I gave but yes I agree it's not just about that, I'd argue that it was least of all that.
 
Xander has in a way already been in Buffy's shoes. Remember Jesse? Buffy and Giles told Xander that Jesse was gone for good and to try to stake him if he had a chance. They were right, of course, but it's not hard to fanwank that Xander might think it unfair Angel got to have a get out of jail free card while Jesse turned to dust. Also, we shouldn't forget that cursing Angel again wouldn't remove the loophole so he would still be pretty much a disaster waiting to happen.

More importantly, the fate of the world should have a much higher priority than Buffy's feelings. Especially considering said feelings were the root cause for the whole mess in the first place. And mere hours before "The Lie" Buffy tried to stall for time when she fought Angel and this led to Kendra's death and Willow's coma. Can you honestly say Xander had no cause whatsoever to doubt in Buffy's ability to dust Angel?

Also, it can be argued that Xander lied exactly because he is a friend of Buffy and didn't want to make her task any harder by giving her false hope. If he didn't care about Buffy's feelings he could have dodged the burden of responisbility by telling her the truth and left her with a terrible dilemma. Friends tend to do that sometimes. Do you also blame Buffy for not telling the gang about Dawn or about being in Heaven?



What makes Buffy more qualified to decide what to do than Xander? Arguably she is more biased and emotionally invested in the situation than him.

Because she is Buffy and would be the one doing the fighting and had the sword and knew how to use it. Buffy ultimately will come down on the side of the world every time no matter what she is feeling at the time or how much she hates to do it. She does what she has to do.
 
Because she is Buffy and would be the one doing the fighting and had the sword and knew how to use it. Buffy ultimately will come down on the side of the world every time no matter what she is feeling at the time or how much she hates to do it. She does what she has to do.

Yes, she sure cared about the world more than about Dawn in The Gift...oh, wait, that was Giles. And she sure din't do what she had to do back when she had Angel on his knees in Innocence. Really, saying that Buffy would be the best person to decide is like saying it's totally okay for judges to be in charge of trials concerning their relatives or loved ones. As I said, Xander is biased but Buffy is even more so. Interestingly enough, she doesn't blame Xander nor Willow after "the Lie" (well at least not when she should have if she actually harbored a grudge, a new writer trying to show off he has watched Becoming by referencing in Selfless doesn't really count, IMO), maybe she recognized why Xander felt he had to do it.

Sure I remember Jesse, but I could never compare those two. I never got to know Jesse, to love him, to see how characters love and feel about him. I only saw Xander had a hard time, but that was never mentioned again in the show. So I really don't know how I could compare a character who was there for two episodes and never mentioned again with a character I got to know a love.

Okay...how is his relevant to what I said, though? It doesn't matter if Jesse has been in one episode or one million, the thing is Xander has been in a situation quite similar to Buffy's. So if he can't put himself in her shoes then I would say he has the memory of say Harmony. 😉

I thought this is a thread where we discuss some things we think were done wrong in the show, some things we never accepted as good, not the facts. End of the world on the side here, we're discussing what was the right thing to do.

Well, maybe it's just me but caring about preventing the end of the world more than about the possibility of hurting somebody's feeling is very much the right thing to do. YMMV. Obviously if Xander had lied in a situation where nobody was in any danger we would be inclined to judge him differently, so I don't see how the looming menace of the world ending is not relevant to the issue discussed.
 
Yes, she sure cared about the world more than about Dawn in The Gift...oh, wait, that was Giles. And she sure din't do what she had to do back when she had Angel on his knees in Innocence. Really, saying that Buffy would be the best person to decide is like saying it's totally okay for judges to be in charge of trials concerning their relatives or loved ones. As I said, Xander is biased but Buffy is even more so. Interestingly enough, she doesn't blame Xander nor Willow after "the Lie" (well at least not when she should have if she actually harbored a grudge, a new writer trying to show off he has watched Becoming by referencing in Selfless doesn't really count, IMO), maybe she recognized why Xander felt he had to do it.



Okay...how is his relevant to what I said, though? It doesn't matter if Jesse has been in one episode or one million, the thing is Xander has been in a situation quite similar to Buffy's. So if he can't put himself in her shoes then I would say he has the memory of say Harmony. 😉



Well, maybe it's just me but caring about preventing the end of the world more than about the possibility of hurting somebody's feeling is very much the right thing to do. YMMV. Obviously if Xander had lied in a situation where nobody was in any danger we would be inclined to judge him differently, so I don't see how the looming menace of the world ending is not relevant to the issue discussed.

Yup, she didn't killed him in Innocence. She had a soul you know. Not a lot of people could do what she did in Becoming 😉 Love doesn't go away in 5 minutes. Doesn't count? Why? Because it proves we have right? It sure does counts. No matter when it was said. It showed us she didn't forget, and then it hurted her hearing that.

Still, like I said and you totally ignored, you can't compare Jesse and Angel situation.

Yup. It's just you. Because as I see it this is not "Let's discuss about Buffy saving the world" thread.
 
Here's what Joss says about it:

"The Xander betrayal issue... hasn't come up with us, and here's why. Xander made a decision. Like a general going into battle, he had to keep Buffy's fighting spirit strong and he felt telling her the truth would blunt it. And Angel needed to be stopped. It was a tough decision, and an unpopular one, but I'm not sure it wasn't the right one. I'm on the fence, and that's what makes it FUN! So there." (joss, Oct 20 21:42 1998).

Yeah, that pretty much sums up how I feel about Xander's "Kick His Ass" comment. It never really bothered me because I felt he needed to keep Buffy focused. Although it resulted in his betrayal, I felt he was looking at the bigger picture in that Angel needed to be stopped and Buffy was the only one who could do it.

In regards to the AR scene, I've pretty much beaten this topic to death in other threads. But, in a nutshell, what shocked me was the fact that Spike was trying to be good, but the AR was a harsh reminder to Buffy and the audience that he still was a vampire with no soul. Of course it bothers me, but as people mentioned, it was a turning point for Spuffy. What developed between them in s7 is one of the reasons why I ship Spuffy.

In regards to the Empty Places scene, I'm split here. I was upset with the Scoobies for how they treated Buffy after everything she has done. At the same point, Buffy did make mistakes that led the Scoobies to having some questions and concerns. Nevertheless, I felt like the Scoobies treated the situation badly. I was upset that Willow started to side with Kennedy (of all people), but I somewhat understood because she was beginning a relationship with her. I was upset with Xander for suddenly doubting Buffy after his whole speech on how she was great, but again. I understood because he just lost his eye, his first major battle injury in the 7 years he helped Buffy. I think that incident led him to doubt Buffy and her abilities. And with Giles, I was upset that he didn't trust Buffy more when it came to Spike, but I understood his concerns, whether Spike really could be a good person with no chip.

But, although I was upset with the Scoobies, I think in retrospect it actually made Buffy stronger by stepping back and questioning things. Spike helping her regain that confidence in her abilities and as the slayer was the extra push she needed to get back in the game, since she felt defeated by the Scoobies' comments.
 
Yup. It's just you. Because as I see it this is not "Let's discuss about Buffy saving the world" thread.

So you are seriously telling me you would care more about the possibility of hurting someone's feelings than about saving the world? If that is so, then yes, we best agree to disagree.
 
So you are seriously telling me you would care more about the possibility of hurting someone's feelings than about saving the world? If that is so, then yes, we best agree to disagree.

No, of course I'm not saying that, I'm just saying we're not discussing that here. We're putting that aside, and discussing feelings first, because we would all agree saving the world is what has to be done, and they should do everything they could.
 
It would be beyond pointless to discuss "The Lie" without taking its context into consideration. Might as well claim Buffy hated her life and that's why she killed herself in The Gift...after all if we exclude the context (i.e. the world about to end) what other reason would she have to jump from that tower?
 
Spike's speech angers me because he talks like Buffy's accomplishments are the only thing that counts, while the others' sacrifices and heroism don't. Like Buffy made it this far without them.

Yeah, but at that point, Buffy was the one that they kicked out. He had just come back with a lead, a really good one, and he finds that Buffy is no longer in charge. WTF? And Spike was venting at that, especially after Willow tried to rationalize it. That doesn't mean the Scoobies' sacrifices and heroism don't matter. It just meant that they were brushing aside everything Buffy did, for them no less. And you have to admit. Spike had a point because in the end, Buffy was the one who saved the world...a lot.
 
It would be beyond pointless to discuss "The Lie" without taking its context into consideration. Might as well claim Buffy hated her life and that's why she killed herself in The Gift...after all if we exclude the context (i.e. the world about to end) what other reason would she have to jump from that tower?

At the time, Buffy was far from hating her life. She wanted to protect her sister. She wanted to save the world, but priority was her sister. Giles was the one who wanted to do what ever is nacessery.
 
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Yeah, but at that point, Buffy was the one that they kicked out. He had just come back with a lead, a really good one, and he finds that Buffy is no longer in charge. WTF? And Spike was venting at that, especially after Willow tried to rationalize it. That doesn't mean the Scoobies' sacrifices and heroism don't matter. It just meant that they were brushing aside everything Buffy did, for them no less. And you have to admit. Spike had a point because in the end, Buffy was the one who saved the world...a lot.

But not alone. Buffy wouldn't have saved the world a lot if she were alone. In fact, if it weren't for Xander following her into the tunnel in The Harvest, Buffy would have been dead.

Buffy was able to go this far with team work, most of the plans and ideas to save the world weren't only hers -Xander was the one who figured out how to defeat The Judge, Anya was the one who suggested using Olaf's weapon on Glory, Xander and Anya thought about using the Buffybot to trick Glory, and so on.

Buffy needs her friends and her friends need her. They can't be separated. Even Buffy getting the scythe was because The First and Caleb were busy laughing at Faith falling for their trap, so Buffy was able to slip inside unnoticed.

The fact that Buffy and her friends hadn't discussed what happened in Empty Places is epic fail and one of the many reasons why I hate S7. The Scoobies fought in S4, but we saw them discuss it and make amends "“we didn't see that in S7 because by that time the Scoobies didn't matter to the writers.
 
At the time, Buffy was far from hating her life. She wanted to protect her sister. She wanted to save the world, but priority was her sister. Giles was the one who wanted to do what ever is nacessery.

You seem to have misunderstood me, I used this as an example of how not to interpret scenes. We cannot just ignore the fact that the characters are not simply in a life and death situation but in a situation where they are the only hope the world has. Maybe my example wasn't very good because it's actually possible to argue Buffy being suicidal even if we take the context into account. So here is another example - let's ignore the ending of the world problem in Becoming. Wouldn't this make Buffy a total weirdo? Why would she stab Angel with that sword? Is she into BDSM or something?

But not alone. Buffy wouldn't have saved the world a lot if she were alone. In fact, if it weren't for Xander following her into the tunnel in The Harvest, Buffy would have been dead.

Buffy was able to go this far with team work, most of the plans and ideas to save the world weren't only hers -Xander was the one who figured out how to defeat The Judge, Anya was the one who suggested using Olaf's weapon on Glory, Xander and Anya thought about using the Buffybot to trick Glory, and so on.

Exactly. I find it blatantly manipulative of the writers that they tried to ignore all that and presented the Scoobies as some uungrateful traitors, a burden on Buffy's neck. Of course, the writers later undermined their own message when they had W&H's amulet save the world and not Buffy but that's S7 for you. 🙂
 
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