Top Three Topics That Never Found Peace

[StarSlayer]

But not alone. Buffy wouldn't have saved the world a lot if she were alone. In fact, if it weren't for Xander following her into the tunnel in The Harvest, Buffy would have been dead.

Buffy was able to go this far with team work, most of the plans and ideas to save the world weren't only hers -Xander was the one who figured out how to defeat The Judge, Anya was the one who suggested using Olaf's weapon on Glory, Xander and Anya thought about using the Buffybot to trick Glory, and so on.

I agree that Buffy couldn't have done it alone. The Scoobies definitely helped her, there's no doubt of that. I'm just saying that when it came down to that final blow, it was Buffy. She killed the Master, she killed Angel, she killed the Mayor, she killed Adam, and she sacrificed herself so Dawn and everyone else could live. They seemed to have forgotten that in s7, as Spike pointed out.

Buffy needs her friends and her friends need her. They can't be separated. Even Buffy getting the scythe was because The First and Caleb were busy laughing at Faith falling for their trap, so Buffy was able to slip inside unnoticed.

By the end, I think they all came to that realization, even Buffy. I think that's why Buffy asked Willow to use her magic and allow Buffy to share the slayer power from the scythe with the potentials.

The fact that Buffy and her friends hadn't discussed what happened in Empty Places is epic fail and one of the many reasons why I hate S7. The Scoobies fought in S4, but we saw them discuss it and make amends "“we didn't see that in S7 because by that time the Scoobies didn't matter to the writers.

I disagree. First, the situation in s7 was totally different than in s4. The battle with the First was one of Buffy's toughest battles to date, with a good chance that she and the others wouldn't succeed and the world would end. Did Buffy have time to hear from everyone how sorry they were when they were at the brink of an apocalypse? Doubtful. There were bigger things happening. Even if she did, Buffy was at that point where action spoke louder than words. The fact that the Scoobies accepted her back showed that they were willing to move on. They have been through so much that I think they just came to an understanding that it's all in the past and they had bigger things to worry about. No words were necessary.

Second, how can you say that the Scoobies didn't matter to the writers? One of my favorite scenes in Chosen was the core four's little conversation about what they wanted to do after they saved the world. It was a nice little way of showing that it all began with them, and that this was just another day at the office. And when they all walked down the hallway together, and then each individually parting, it was just a great symbolic way of showing how far they have come together, but also how each contributed to the group in their own way.

 

[Kana]

I think it may be copying and pasting time.

Here was my view on the Attempted Rape:

"I always took it that he almost hurt someone who he loved. As Joss said, Spike's love was at least defined by wanting to see the person happy. He also felt the same about Dru but because she was a masochist and a sadist he was so used to violence, sex and love being mixed together. Being in love with someone who didn't think like that sparked off an identity crisis. He wanted Buffy and it had been so long since he'd been an actual threat. He couldn't be a monster but without a soul he couldn't quite come close to being a person that Buffy would consider as her lover. I don't, however believe that Spike knew it was wrong in itself. If he did, he wouldn't need a soul.

I don't think he felt guilt outside the scope of knowing he caused unhappiness to the woman he loved. I doubt he felt it in the larger sense, otherwise there would be plenty of other things he would have felt guilty for."

And as for the the Empty Places issue:

"Oh God, I actually thought I replied to this thread already but it was in BW. I'm mostly going to use my posts from BW and explain that I actually see everyone's point of view and how their actions are understandable.

Now lets look at all the characters and their reactions.

Willow and Xander

We have to understand this isn't the first time Willow has questioned Buffy's actions but never has the consequence been so grave. Xander in the earlier episode was talking about trusting Buffy because she's earned it and I believe this is true.Buffy greatest strengths has been her instinct and compassion, yet she leads them to die in Dirty Girls. Xander is really struggling to see Buffy's point because she's just contradicted what he said with her actions and wants to go again. The reason Buffy has been trusted this far because she's always got them through safely so they never had any reason to doubt her but now she wants to lead them to a place where some of them were killed and poor Xander was badly hurt ( a miracle he wasn't killed actually) and it surprises me that people can't see their perspective.

Giles

As for Giles, he was doubting Buffy's judgment anyway. Although I don't agree with his duplicity in LMPTM, it doesn't mean that he was necessarily in the wrong. The whole Spike thing was a judgement call and while it was Buffy's call, it doesn't make it the right call. If Spike had been left alone and the trigger was still activated then I'd agree with Wood (his revenge was actually arguabley irrelevent to the utilitarian argument when you analyse it logically) that Spike could have been a threat. Giles mistrust of Buffy's judgement is not coming out of the blue and lest we forget Glory/Ben.

Dawn

Dawn is surprising I think. Also think about CWDP. FE said Buffy wont choose you. Also Buffy said that if she had to choose between the world and Dawn, she'd choose the world in LMPTM. While Dawn didn't hear this, Buffy's attitude in terms of what wanting to take the offensive after people have been hurt and killed wouldn't allay Dawn's fears that she may put herself and others in danger. She's worried but she's not angry with Buffy because she defends her to Rona. She and Faith are perhaps the most sympathetic to Buffy and have proven it's not jealousy but circumstances which are motivating their actions. I mention jealousy because both of them have been jealous of Buffy at some point.

In conclusion, this was an extreme circumstance and I think the First was the main reason behind it: Divide and conquer and for a while it worked. Look at all the factors, secret messages, Spike, questions of authority and leadership and of course Eve!! Of course these concepts don't arise in a vacuum but I still believe the main reason is the mistrust of Buffy's ability to get them through this alive rather than personal issues.

Like I said, the FE were actually alot more clever than I gave them credit for originally and I think they are the main reason for the 'mutiny'. They used Buffy's greatest skill, her intuition, against her which made people wonder if they can trust her judgement which previously they relied on without any price really being paid. It was actually a pretty decent plan because on the one hand Buffy may have decided that it wasn't a good idea to go back, FE win again but Buffy's instinct were right but people were scared to trust Buffy's decision to go in again when the last time they got nothing but death and injury. Also the Spike plan was pretty good because if they had killed Spike then they would have lost one of their strongest warriors but on the other hand if Buffy protects him, which she was willing to do then considering that she's made dubious decisions regarding Spike before personally, then there's a chance that could be clouding her judgement in terms of what to do with him. On the third hand (lol) if nothing was done then Wood could have been right and Spike could have been their undoing in this battle. That is why this is one of my favourite episodes (much to others chagrin) because when you analyse it you can actually see how it arose. Pretty clever imo."