Question UK Referendum to Stay or Leave the EU

Do you think the UK should leave the EU

  • Live in the UK and think it should leave

    Votes: 6 30.0%

  • Live in the UK and think it should stay

    Votes: 7 35.0%

  • Live in the EU but not in the UK and think it should leave

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Live in the EU but not in the UK and think it should stay

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Live outside the EU and think it should stay

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Live outside the EU and think it should leave

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Total voters
    20
Some people have said that outsiders like Obama can keep their opinions to themselves, but let's look at what has happened. National sovereignty is what is at stake here. Although some people see big, bad Germany ganging up on poor, defenseless Greece, look at how the money flows: in Greece, civil servants can retire at 55 on a 90% pension. In Germany, you retire at 67 and you don't get 90%. Greece has been the author of its own misfortune, but it has been their choice. Now I see the choice being dictated by the EU as part of the problem of the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) being heavily in debt and dragging the rest of the EU down. Britain is in a different position - it has one of the biggest balance of trade deficits with the rest of the EU meaning Britain is a good customer for the rest of the countries in the EU. They would have a fixed time (I believe two years) to renegotiate a trade agreement and if it happens with terms favourable to Britain, the centrifugal force on the rest of the EU may pull the whole structure apart, so the agreement will be strained at best and stonewalled every step of the way.

I do not like most politicians, but I prefer our home-grown idiots to extra-national idiots and we have the same problem with UN resolutions - why should we knuckle under to people who do not have our interests at heart and in fact may want to do damage to our country? I see the EU as a mini-UN with the same problem - decisions are made by people we do not elect or control. So I voted for Brexit although it will make life a bit more complicated for the UK.

Canada is facing the Trans-Pacific Partnership in the future, one of the most odious trade agreements ever. We would lose about 20,000 jobs in the car industry and about 15,000 jobs in the dairy industry immediately with no counterbalancing effect. We add Draconian copyright agreements - I doubt a forum of this sort where people post images and videos from elsewhere could continue. And foreign companies are indemnified against any environmental damage they do with no recourse through the courts. Our sovereignty should not be affected by foreign interests and neither should that of Britain.

Some of you may think I have no right to an opinion, but if you stay in a multinational organization like the EU, remember that they think you have no right to an opinion either.
 
GwenRaiden said:
Took this test: Crowdpac | Crowdfund UK Politics
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Was curious to see what I would get if I swapped out UK to Sweden. I got 51% in but in all honesty it showed what I already knew, that I don't know enough how being in the EU affect me/us one way or another. I just know that I've always been a bit negative about joining although accepting that there must come good things out of it too.
 
Washburne said:
Was curious to see what I would get if I swapped out UK to Sweden. I got 51% in but in all honesty it showed what I already knew, that I don't know enough how being in the EU affect me/us one way or another. I just know that I've always been a bit negative about joining although accepting that there must come good things out of it too.
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That's the trouble though, we know there are positive things, but the campaign has been so negative, we don't see the positive.

I also think the positive that comes out of EU membership is so indistinct and unclear, that it can never be shown as a concrete fact. There is good there, but we just can't seem to make it out clearly 🙂
 
One thing I think for sure is that no matter how the vote ends up I think Cameron's days as PM are numbered, he will not see out a second term and I think the change will happen sooner rather than later. Believe it or not its his tenth year as Torie leader.
 
Well, I just got my postal vote, so that'll be heading off to the nearest red letterbox soon.... 😉
 
GwenRaiden
GwenRaiden
I got mines today too. Still undecided.
Athena said:
It's interesting actually, because pretty much everyone I know who's willing to give an opinion is choosing to vote to leave and are very vocal on that fact. Personally, to people I know, I'm remaining silent on my choice, because I've seen people I know on social media say they're going to vote to remain and the leave voters just tear into them, giving x reason or y reason why their choice is wrong and, quite frankly, being really rude and disrespectful about it.
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I haven't noticed anyone I know being aggressive or rude about it. Most aggression outside of the people I know have been Remain voters.
The Bronze said:
So I'm stuck between voting out because it'll be our only chance to avoid the damage the EU can do to us or voting in for protection from the damage our government would cause if left unsupervised.
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It is a terrible shame that the best argument against leaving I've come across is that it might leave our elected* government to run riot.

*Albeit elected by under 50% of the voters.

Anyone catch the ITV Referendum debate? I feel like the Leave party were dominant. For those who are in Britain (or have a VPN).
 
My voting day was a couple of weeks ago when I sent my postal vote off! 😀 But I've not changed my mind, so that's something I guess.

That's a really interesting article. I believe in voting, but there's always been an undercurrent of damned if we do, damned if we don't with regards to the EU Referendum. 🙄
 
Ive spoken to a few people, we've all made out minds up, but none of us is really happy with the decisions we've made. It feels like there is no right decison, we are all just hoping for the best. Maybe there are more positive people out there?
 
The Bronze said:
So the big day is tomorrow. I'm pretty sure on which way I'll be voting now. I found this fantastic article though that nicely explains why I've been so unimpressed with the whole thing and why we'll need to be vigilant of the damage whatever the result.

The cruel trick that means however you vote on the EU, we're all screwed | The Canary
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That's so left wing it hurts. Though to be fair I'm all for attacking the Tories.
Priceless said:
Ive spoken to a few people, we've all made out minds up, but none of us is really happy with the decisions we've made. It feels like there is no right decison, we are all just hoping for the best. Maybe there are more positive people out there?
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I'm positive. Voting to leave. Then come the next general election the Tories will become non-existent due to everyone rightly loathing them and someone other than Labour will come to power and we'll get Proportional Representation rather than the incredibly undemocratic and corrupt First Past the Post system we have now. Then we'll all dance and sing together. It's gonna be great.
 
Priceless
Priceless
I'll have whatever you're on ;-)
One article I read said that the British parliament had passed a motion to drop the tax on feminine hygiene products but they can't enact it - it has to go to the unelected parliament in Brussels. Leaving would be short-term pain, long term gain. @Fenrir, whatever you are singing, I will accompany you on the kazoo.
 
I voted out, but it was a very tough call. I'm convicned that which ever way it goes, not that much will change at least not for awhile. Anyway, my reasons are that I think the EU is too much about big business which doesn't effect my life, and really for me to be engaged with it, it should be about a lot more. Also, I think it is an outdated system which has caused us more problems recently than its been worth. And I do think we need better control over immigration. I am very pro immigration, but it has gotten out of hand, and we do need to try and weed the bad ones out, and to stop punishing students and others for the bad intentions of a select few. Finally, if I thought that our movement in Europe would be effected and their movement to this country, then I think I would vote in, but I really don't see that happening.
 
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