Unpopular rants,opinions and confessions

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I liked Tara's zig-zag part in S4.

My favorite OMWF song is "Something to Sing About."

I enjoy the episodes "Inca Mummy Girl," "Reptile Boy," and "Beer Bad."

My absolute favorite episode is "Normal Again."
 
The Ferg
The Ferg
I love Something to Sing About!
MinwaraYana
MinwaraYana
Something to Sing About is my fav song too!
Kana
Kana
Normal Again Karma
I absolutely adore Fred as a character, but in the long run I think that her introduction was A Bad Thing. Maybe not her introduction per se, but the love triangle that ensued. In S1+2 the focus had been on all member of AI as a team, and there were really strong bonds between all the characters. However, Fred's introduction shifted the focus onto the Fred/Wesley/Gunn triangle, away from the team as a whole. Meanwhile, as much as I love Cangel, their developing romance led to another triangle of Cordelia/Connor/Angel being formed. Instead of being a show about a team, a group of really close friends, it became a show about two seperate groups - F/W/G and C/C/A, with Lorne acting as an emissiary between the two. I missed the team dynamic.
 
MinwaraYana
MinwaraYana
So damn right!
The Ferg
The Ferg
Wow, I never really thought of Fred that way, and I totally agree. I'm now realizing why I see S1-2 differently than S3-5.
C
Chris2
I agree about heI agree about the problems her introduction created. Disagree about loving her as a character...
Akitta21
Akitta21
[No message]
B
Big Damn Hero
True true true :):)
New stuff from me!

I actually fairly enjoyed Ted and Bad Eggs. Sure, they both could've been better, but I liked them. I didn't like how they handled Ted after the episode, but meh. They were watchable. A helluva lot more than Some Assembly Required.

When SMG says some "comedic" lines I literally cringe... She's much better when she's all dramatic, rather than comedic. It's ok, don't worry, I still love her most of the time!
 
- I liked Dawn from the moment she showed up.
- Connor brought a great dynamic to Angel. I wish we'd seen more of him in S5
- I hated that in AtS S5, they pretended like Fred/Gunn never happened. There's one throwaway line about it when Fred and Wes get together, but otherwise, it's like the writers conveniently forgot about their history so they could just move on to the next thing unemcumbered.
- As has been mentioned before, it does seem more than a bit ridiculous that Angel leaves Sunnydale because he and Buffy can't have sex. I'm sure they could have entertained themselves in other ways that would have been both satisfying and soul-preserving.
- Spike never should have gotten his soul. He became such a pussy in S7. I loved him because he was evil. He was half a man (demon?) without Dru.
- I've really come to like Kennedy in S8. Now I'm kinda happy when she shows up during my rewatches.
- S8 is shaping up to be one of my favorite seasons.
- Lorne really annoyed me when he first showed up. They spent way too much time singing karoake in S2. I don't think I liked him until S4, and then not very much.
- The trio were also really annoying. According to the DVD commentaries, the writers got a huge kick out of writing their dialogue, but I did not share their amusement. When Andrew came back in S7, I was filled with dread, but he played better as a solo character, thankfully.
- I understand why the potentials revolt against Buffy in S7. I would have found it hard to work with her, too, at that point.
 
The Ferg
The Ferg
Satisfying and soul-preserving karma. :)
T
ToShanshuInLA
I lol'd @ satisfying and soul-preserving =)
I don't know how unpopular these are but:

-I hated Buffy starting in the later half of season 6. It turns to fullblown hatred after Lies My Parents Told Me. I hope it doesn't affect my view of seasons 1 - 5 when I watch them again.

-Not Fade Away > Chosen

-I do not care for 'shipping.

-Fresley and um...Frunn (Funn? haha) were equally boring. It was what ended the relationships and the aftermaths that I found more interesting.

-Doppelgangland > The Wish

-Drusilla was awesome. So bat-shit insane but I loved her for it. "Time for another pony ride?"

-Mayor Wilkins is my favorite villain of BtVS.
 
G
GrrArghx
Dru karma! :)
The Ferg
The Ferg
I would agree with your Doppelgangland comment.
haha unpopular rants - my biggest pet-peeve above all is the blending of the couple names - spuffy, bangel, weslah and what not. Drives me bonkers... I think 'Cangel' sounds like something oozy and crusty, like a bad rash or something 🙂
 
The Ferg
The Ferg
Yeah, that's probably my favorite quote in the Whedonverse. :)
Before I watched Angel, I posted something in this thread about being sad that Wesley went from dork to bad ass - but after watching AtS, I have to say he's probably one of, if not my favorite character on the show. I love how badass he becomes 😀 But, there will always be a special place in my heart for dorky Wes 😛

As much as I love Will/Oz, Cander, and I'm against cheating - I thought Willow and Xander's little affair in Season 3 was cute. I feel TERRIBLE for it, but I honestly can't help it.

My favorite season of Angel is 5 - I loved every single episode apart from Why We Fight which I thought was boring. lol

I think it would've been interesting to see Angelus interact with Spike in season 5. (Flashbacks aside.) Too bad we didn't get to see it. I can imagine how Angelus would treat Spike, especially since Angel isn't too nice to him as it is 😀

It makes me sad that we were forced to deal with a very annoying Connor, but when he got not annoying he was never on the show 😛 I really liked him in Season 5.

I liked the Groosalug. I know most people don't, but he was cool, to me atleast. I liked him with Cordy too 🙂

I LOVED the way they had Fred die. It wasn't normally something we saw on either Buffy or Angel. She really, really suffered, and having to watch probably the sweetest character in the 'verse go through that is pretty hard to stomach. Even if you don't like Fred, I wouldn't be able to understand how it wouldn't get to you.

I think Buffy is a more emotional show than Angel, but I think that what little emotional moments AtS had were far more heart wrenching than BtVS'... if that makes any sense at all? 😛

I didn't really like Willow too much after season 3 until season 7. But, I do love Dark Willow 🙂

I like the concept of Wolfram & Hart - although I'm not sure I really understand it. lol

Alot of people don't think so, but I think BtVS is hilarious. I laugh at practically all the little jokes they put in each show lol Although I'm easily amused, so it could just be me 😀
 
The Ferg
The Ferg
Yeah, it's so hard to choose whether I want to root for Willow/Xander or the other couples. :(
B
BillyidolwannaB
I agree Angel is now my favorite character
Why is Buffy s6 the most popular? Its the worst.
Why is Buffy s4 least popular? Its great.
And i really hate Cordy, i dont understand the love for her, on the surface it looked like she grew and progressed but she really didn't at all. She was just 'there'. In As3 she reverts back to her former self.

---------- Post added at 02:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

Firefly really is not that good. Its only seen as good cos Jw wrote it. Your worst Buffy or angel season is much better than it.
 
Why is Buffy s6 the most popular? Its the worst.
Why is Buffy s4 least popular? Its great.
And i really hate Cordy, i dont understand the love for her, on the surface it looked like she grew and progressed but she really didn't at all. She was just 'there'. In As3 she reverts back to her former self.

---------- Post added at 02:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

Firefly really is not that good. Its only seen as good cos Jw wrote it. Your worst Buffy or angel season is much better than it.
I don't know if this is allowed in this thread, but can you explain why you think S6 was the worst, and why S4 was the best, and Firefly sucked. Part of me wants to yell at you 😛 , but part of me is really intrigued as to why you think such things.
 
I know that question wasn't directed at me, but I've got a 4-page rant on why S6 was so awful, would you like to see it?
 
The Ferg
The Ferg
Yes sir.
Hey, apparently it's not 4 pages, it's 5 pages. Enjoy.

Why Season Six was so Awful​

Destruction of all characters

Basically, this is the season where every character became completely detestable. Let's break them down character by character.

Buffy - From a witty, friendly, optimistic girl that we all loved to an empty shell devoid of any human emotion. Her being ripped from Heaven was played realistically - far too realistically. Her suicidal depression was just that, depressing. She lost all of her warmth and humour. How are we supposed to enjoy watching a character who is not entertaining and hates her life and wants to die? Watching it was about as fun as living it. And when she did try to be "fun", such as in "˜Gone', she was so annoying and petulant that she made Dawn look mature. There was also a serious case of angst dissonance - we cannot relate to her problem. Compare early S3, where she is still angsting over Angel. We can relate to that because we've all lost someone we love and wished they could come back. However, none of us have died and then been pulled out of heaven, we cannot relate to that. Then the rest of her problems were just far too relatable, which I'll explain later.

Willow - Early season, Willow moves closer to the dark side and mind-rapes her girlfriend. Already she's turned into a horrible person that is impossible to like. But it's an interesting avenue for the character, we could've explored the effects of having so much power on a person, and their abuse of that power. Then "Wrecked" aired. All subtlety was thrown out the window and the show started beating us with a massive hammer with MAGIC=DRUGS written on the side. This storyline was an insult to our intelligence, lame in an after-school special kind of way. And this lameness transferred onto Willow after this episode. I couldn't care about her struggle with withdrawal because the storyline was just so mind-numbingly stupid in the first place. First half of the season she was a horrible person, second half she was a walking cliche of a drug addict.

Xander - Escaped this season largely unscathed, but still damaged. He did very little in the first half except for talk about wedding plans with Anya. Which turned out to be a complete waste of time since they didn't even get married! The show could have taken the characters someplace new, explored what married life was like, but since happy couples are illegal in the Buffyverse and the status quo must be maintained, Xander was required to act like a jerk for a short while and leave Anya at the altar. Basically all he did all season (save for the climax of "Grave") was plan a wedding, ruin a wedding, and hate Spike. Which leads me to...

Spike - If any character was ruined in this season, it was Spike. Remember when he was cool? He's fallen a long way, ending up with the job of stalking Buffy. He was a complete an utter selfish douchebag in S6. He emotionally manipulated Buffy, playing on her depression to convince her that she "came back wrong" and "belonged in the dark", all so that she'd feel so alone and numb that all she could do was jump into bed with him. And when she finally got a hold of herself and ended it, he couldn't accept that and tried to rape her. We're talking about rape here. The highest level of evil. How were we supposed to like this character after he did that.

The big mistake that the writers made was to confuse a character being entertaining and a character being sympathetic. Spike in S2-4 (and to an extent 5) was entertaining, but not sympathetic. He was cool, and sexy, and witty, and just generally awesome "“ but he was still an evil, selfish douchebag. But this was fine because those seasons didn't expect us to feel sympathy for Spike, just be entertained by him, and we were. However S6 Spike was not witty, not awesome, he'd gone from a punk-rock killer to a lame-ass stalker. He was not entertaining. And they tried to play up the sympathetic-ness of his character, but it didn't work because it assumed that we already had sympathy for him. Spike did nothing in S6 to earn sympathy, it was assumed that because the fans loved him that we would feel sympathy for him. Wrong. We loved him because he was awesome, take that away and put manipulation, stalking, abuse and rape in its place, and you've got one thoroughly detestable character that I think deserved to be a smouldering pile of dust.

Giles "“ Oh Giles, how we missed you this season. Giles wasn't just awesome, he was an essential part of the group. Lets forget how much we missed him for a moment, and focus on his role in the Scoobies. He's a sensible, mature person. He's a voice of calm, intelligent thought in a gang of wacky characters. The problem with S6 is that it became oversaturated with wacky, non-sensible characters and simply disintegrated without any voices of reason or calm. Giles was the main holder of this role, but at other points it was filled by Oz, Tara or Angel, then next most mature, calm characters. Oz and Angel left, and Tara was missing for a few early episodes before dying. The more "wacky" impulsive character were left free to roam and all hell broke loose. Buffy slept with Spike, Willow got hooked on drugs, Xander left Anya at the altar"¦ could you see all that happening if Giles or even anyone with a functioning adult brain had been there?

That aside, we just missed Giles. He pretty much single-handedly saved the season finale with his return. He was brilliant and we missed him. But because the actor had other things on, he was dumped with an OOC reason for leaving that made him look like a moronic jerk. Yes, Buffy needs to be an adult sometime "“ emphasis on sometime. First she needs to be helped through a serious rough patch. Her mum died, then her sister almost died, then she died, then was ripped out of heaven and is now suffering from depression and serious financial worries. Do you really think that this is the best time to be leaving her, Giles?

Dawn "“ Poor Dawnie. If it wasn't for whoever wrote All the Way and Older and Faraway, she'd be the most sympathetic character on the show. For large chunks of the season she basically sat around like an abused puppy who really wants to be taken out for walkies. Her jerk of a big sister was far too busy shagging a vampire to bother about her (see "As You Were" for Buffy turning up late with a cold, squashed bag of fast food. What a wonderful sister), her friends were too busy getting high or leaving their loved ones at the altar. But anyway, AtW and OaFA were written, just in case we were starting to like Dawn and need to be reminded to hate her. I'm not even gonna go into these episodes in detail, you saw them, you know what I'm talking about. Dawn was whiny, annoying, irresponsible and just plain dumb. Another character destroyed.

Anya "“ Probably the best-off of anyone who lived through S6. She remained funny and entertaining for the most part, her only problem was that she remained a very static character. She'd gradually gone from a selfish, evil demon to a brave, caring woman in S3-5, in S6 she was just hanging around waiting for Xander to break her heart. She got a few good jokes, but didn't really become interesting until Entropy.

Tara "“ Her death was a complete insult to her character. She was warm, kind, funny, and loved by the audience. She had the sense to get away from everyone else and so remained unscarred by the horrors of S6. But in her death she was not a character, she was reduced to nothing more than a plot device, a trigger for Willow to go evil. It was completely random, and meant absolutely nothing for her character. In death she was nothing more than an extension of Willow, to be disposed of at will. Utterly insulting to her and her fans. Not just that, but it was a real waste of a character. She was an interesting, lovable character, unmarred by S6 and still left with plenty of potential development, but we had to lose her for the sake of three episodes with Dark Willow. Three episodes! Dark Willow wasn't even that interesting! Three! Frickin! Episodes! As far as I can see, that's an unfair trade.


The Legion of Dim

And you thought it was just the main characters that were the problem? The Trio sucked for many, many reasons. I can see the thinking behind them. It's a very depressing season, so they went with a "funny" Big Bad to lighten the mood. The only little snag in that plan is that funny Big Bads are usually supposed to be, you know, funny. The Trio were just not. They were just a pile of tired old "nerd" clichés. LOL, nerds watch Star Trek! LOL, nerds collect action figures and live in basements! Isn't this hilarious? No, it isn't. It's just lame. Expecting us to be impressed by these lame-ass stereotypes is yet again insulting to our intelligence.

Not only were these jokes unfunny, clichéd, unimaginative and just plain stupid, but they went against everything this show was about. Back in S1-3, our beloved characters were the geeks. It reached out to all the geeks out there, because it connected to us. Our group of heroes were the outsiders that everyone thought were a bit weird. The show went from celebrating the outsiders to poking fun at them.


Spuffy and the attempted rape

I've already said most of this in the sections on Buffy and Spike. They really ruined each other's characters. Spike's obsession turned him from a fun and interesting character to just a creepy vampire who was in love with Buffy. It reduced his character until that was all that was left. And then his attempted rape of Buffy made him completely detestable and irredeemable in my opinion. And I, like Xander, lost a hell of a lot of respect for Buffy when she started sleeping with Spike. It was horrible to see a once-loved character lower herself to an evil soulless creep who wasn't even cool any more. And when Spike attempted to rape Buffy and then didn't end up on the end of a stake, I lost a bit more. If that had happened in the early seasons he'd be dust. But the fact that he wasn't "“ and that Buffy still seemed concerned for him afterwards portrayed her as weak and pathetic. The whole rape business trivialised the subject, and what was really horrible was when Spike blamed Buffy afterwards for "leading him on". This miserable, horrible, destructive relationship destroyed the characters and added to the general feel of S6 being completely depressing to watch.


Lack of dynamic between the Scoobies

Instead of a tight-knit gang, they became just a bunch of people who didn't all interact with each other, and barely seemed to care about each other any more. Does anyone remember Spike having a conversation with someone who wasn't Buffy? Or Buffy and Willow acting anything like they were best friends? Or Xander or Anya in a single scene pre-wedding without the other? Any Giles whatsoever? They just went off and had their own problems and barely seemed to give a crap what was going on in each other's lives.


Willow's magic addiction

I cannot even begin to describe how awful this was. It's just simply ridiculous. It had the potential to be such an interesting storyline, then in "Wrecked", for absolutely no reason whatsoever, it went from Willow slowly being tempted to abuse her power for personal gain to an anvilicious failure of a metaphor, where MAGIC=DRUGS. Not only did it come completely out of the blue, different from everything that had already been established about the nature of magic, but it was just a stupid idea in the first place. Who on earth said "Hey, we've got this storyline about Willow abusing her power. That's good, but how about we treat the viewers like morons and go completely overboard, rubbing it in their faces that magic is exactly like drugs "“ no, wait, magic is a drug, and Willow is a drug addict." Why anyone would think it was a good idea to treat the storyline in such an in-your-face, after-school-special type way is beyond me. I didn't really care for anything happening to Willow after that, not even Dark Willow, because the storyline was so facepalmingly stupid in the first place that I just didn't care.


Buffy's problems

I mentioned earlier that while being dragged out of heaven was a problem we couldn't relate to, Buffy's other problems we could relate to too well, and I will explain what I mean now. To quote Television Without Pity:

Y'know what my problem with this season is? It's a little too realistic. I don't want to tune in for a show about how people struggle to make ends meet and creatively manage their finances. If I want to worry about how to get the most out of each budget dollar, I can do that on my own time. Television is supposed to be an escape, and I want to see a show about magic, fantastical shit happening and people getting their asses kicked. Paying bills, worrying about money, hoping things won't break until next month is just a little too much like my life. And believe you me, I don't watch TV so I can revel in my life.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. No matter how realistic, Buffy struggling with finances and searching for jobs just isn't fun. I want to watch Buffy kicking evil ass, not Buffy trying to get a low-interest loan. Not to mention the stupidity of the characters to not even suggest asking the Watcher's Council for money. Too many plots in this season required the characters to act like complete morons for them to work.

A hella lot of really crap episodes

The season starts. The first three episodes struggle a little but are still alright. Then there's a nosedive with "Flooded", "Life Serial" and "All the Way". Three pretty poor episodes, but hey, Once More With Feeling saves the day. Tabula Rasa is pretty fun, but in my opinion overrated. Then the dung really hits the fan. "Smashed". "Wrecked". "Gone". "Doublemeat Palace", "Older and Faraway", "Dead Things", "As You Were". "Hell' Bells". That has to be the worst run of episodes ever in the show's history. 5 and a half hours of absolute durge. With all other seasons I couldn't wait to get onto the next episode. Trying to get through that lot was a chore. I had to force myself to sit through them because "it has to get better soon", right? Well, "Normal Again" was pretty good and "Entropy" was just average. "Seeing Red" was a horrible, insulting stain on the history of BtVS, sending us trundling into a somewhat underwhelming, filler-packed finale that was only saved by the return of Giles and the final scenes with Xander/Willow and Buffy/Dawn.

The main problem is that when episodes were bad, they were very very bad. In the early seasons we had to deal with some truly lame-ass plots (eg. Bad Eggs, Go Fish, Teacher's Pet), but the episodes were still very watchable and enjoyable because even though the plot of the week disappointed, we still had a cast of very fun, likeable characters that managed to make the episodes enjoyable with their interaction and banter. However, due to the destruction of all the main characters and drifting apart of the Scoobies as mentioned earlier, when the main plot was rubbish there wasn't anything to fall back on but a bunch of unlikeable morons that no longer had fun or cared about each other. Even when the plot was good, the episode still struggled due to lacking a solid foundation of characters to build on.

This season may deal with "adult" problems, but it certainly isn't adult. The lame-ass magic/drugs metaphor, tired nerd clichés, plots so stupid they require the entire cast to be complete morons in order to make them work (see the Scoobies, who have fought government conspiracies, legions of vampires and literal gods, fail to do anything about three dumbass nerds all year). The moral of the season, that simply "life is really hard and depressing" seems like it came out the diary of an angsty teenage emo rather than the pen of a professional writer. Boring, depressing stuff happening does not automatically equal adult storylines.

In conclusion, season six was a moronic, depressing, slow-paced, patronising, ham-fisted mockery of an attempt at entertainment that metaphorically pissed on the graves of many once-loved characters, insulted my intelligence, broke away from its roots as a proudly geeky show and left me pissed off enough to write 4 and a half pages on how crap it is.
 
E
Eleftheria
congratulations for this post
^ Thank God for this post! really, I wanted someone to see that 3 lame nerds actually manage to mess with Buffy THE SLAYER who has even faced a Godess only last season!!! In Normal Again, which is btw my favourite episode of s6...it started getting serious. I mean, Buffy really wanted to stay in the alternate reality forever. She preferred schizofrenia to her real world.And no comments about the spuffy thing. You described it really well. Most of us just wanna turn on the tv and enjoy, not get depressed.


And I wanna add sth more concering this thread.

-I hate Dawn. Yes, it's official. I started liking her in s7 and then Bang!!! Empty Places happened and she ruined it.

-I never had any problem with Connor. I believe that he might be one of the most tragic characters in the verse. From an early age he has been manipulated by almost everyone around him. I was very angry at him for what he did to Angel, but in s5 i loved him.

-The Potentials are a bunch of brats.
 
I'm glad you liked my rant. 🙂

More opinions:

1) I hated Buffy in S6 and the second two-thirds of S7. I've already explained about S6, and in S7 I thought she was a cold-hearted bitca that treated her friends like crap and exepcted everybody to unquestioningly obey her every command. I cheered when the Scoobies kicked her out of the house.
2) I don't even think that they kicked her out. They just pointed out that her stupid plan was stupid, and suggested that she listen to other people's suggestions. So she threw a hissy fit and gave an ultimatum - either she's in charge or she leaves. So they called her bluff and told her to leave.
 
Tara "“ Her death was a complete insult to her character. She was warm, kind, funny, and loved by the audience. She had the sense to get away from everyone else and so remained unscarred by the horrors of S6. But in her death she was not a character, she was reduced to nothing more than a plot device, a trigger for Willow to go evil. It was completely random, and meant absolutely nothing for her character. In death she was nothing more than an extension of Willow, to be disposed of at will. Utterly insulting to her and her fans. Not just that, but it was a real waste of a character. She was an interesting, lovable character, unmarred by S6 and still left with plenty of potential development, but we had to lose her for the sake of three episodes with Dark Willow. Three episodes! Dark Willow wasn't even that interesting! Three! Frickin! Episodes! As far as I can see, that's an unfair trade.

I sort of, kind of agree with you. However do you not think that was sort of the point? That nice people get killed when muppets start running about with guns thinking they're badass.
 
I'm glad you liked my rant. 🙂

More opinions:

1) I hated Buffy in S6 and the second two-thirds of S7. I've already explained about S6, and in S7 I thought she was a cold-hearted bitca that treated her friends like crap and exepcted everybody to unquestioningly obey her every command. I cheered when the Scoobies kicked her out of the house.
2) I don't even think that they kicked her out. They just pointed out that her stupid plan was stupid, and suggested that she listen to other people's suggestions. So she threw a hissy fit and gave an ultimatum - either she's in charge or she leaves. So they called her bluff and told her to leave.

I think I love you. 🙂
 
I sort of, kind of agree with you. However do you not think that was sort of the point? That nice people get killed when muppets start running about with guns thinking they're badass.

Yes, that was the point. And it was a stupid point. It made the Scoobies looks terribly inept - they can defeat a God but a nerd with a gun causes them trouble? Also it wasn't worth killing such a wonderful character and throwing away all her potential for the sake of making such a point.

I think I love you. 🙂

I love you too. 🙂

New controversy - I didn't hate Kennedy. I know, it's shocking, despite all my disdain for those last two seasons, the character widely detested by all, even those who like S7, did not particularly annoy me. She was slightly annoying in one or two scenes, but she was my favourite of the potentials because at least she was brave enough to do something, like in Showtime where she's ready to fight while all the others just mope about and whine. And Killow wasn't that bad either, not as good as Tillow or Woz, but still pretty sweet in places.

Andrew didn't bother me either. Most of my S7 hatred is directed towards the soulless-bitca-who-was-pretending-to-be-Buffy and the show-eclipsing cancer that was Spike.
 
I agree about Buffy getting surprisingly cold hearted(she was NEVER like that before...she put her life in danger to protect Dawn and her friends, and now everyone was disposable...is this the right word for thrwoing someone away?) but I would never agree that it was right to kick her out of the house. Dawn deserved her ass kicked, perhaps by Faith. That would be satisfying.

I admire Kennedy for her fighting spirit, but she is still a brat who doesn't have the right to defy the slayer, cause she is NOT a slayer and she has absolutely no battle experience, like Buffy.
 
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