Was a new Slayer called when Buffy died at the end of season 5?

[Schillaci]

And the fact that the first had no problem killing Faith. But he wouldn't kill Buffy?

Also you can't just say "Thats a mess up of the writers" It was mentioned loads during the season, so it wasn't a mistake. They are not stupid, they wouldn't have had her say it over and over again.

Also if the writers write it, it has to be taken. They are the ones who make the show, it's not for us to edit out the bits we don't like!

You're making a common mistake. Its a prevalent mistake found in hack fanfic writers. Heroes are allowed to make mistakes. They're allowed to be wrong. Because Buffy believes her death will call a new slayer, does not mean that that's what the writers are committing to.

As for why the first wouldn't kill Buffy. Use your head. Buffy is an experienced Slayer, she is a great slayer, one of the greatest. If she dies she is replaced by some inexperienced twiglet. If the line passed through Buffy, I'd spend all my resources on killing her. Caleb has opportunity to kill Buffy, but he purposefully doesn't.

 

[nerd4hire]

Seriously? You two want to join the bones of those who have gone before you chanting the "only through Faith" party line?

Very well then, at least we have some worthy competition this time.

The only indication that Buffy was the active slayer in season 7 is when she said so. I don't think that is true at all. She was wrong.

Nonsense, that isn't the only indication. I even think you know that, so I'll only ask how bad you want to get into this.

Wanna talk questionable support? Show me anything that supports the "only through Faith" stuff in Season 7. Show me one, and I'll show you five supporting the possibillity the way the slayer line operates has perhaps changed so now it passes at least through Buffy, possibly through Faith as well.

Same goes for you Dzhugi. But here's what I don't understand. You both know this. You've both seen the arguement. What's up? Are you trying to slip something through, or start something up?

 

[Schillaci]

Seriously? You two want to join the bones of those who have gone before you chanting the "only through Faith" party line?

Very well then, at least we have some worthy competition this time.



Nonsense, that isn't the only indication. I even think you know that, so I'll only ask how bad you want to get into this.

Wanna talk questionable support? Show me anything that supports the "only through Faith" stuff in Season 7. Show me one, and I'll show you five supporting the possibillity the way the slayer line operates has perhaps changed so now it passes at least through Buffy, possibly through Faith as well.

Cool.

Same goes for you Dzhugi. But here's what I don't understand. You both know this. You've both seen the arguement. What's up? Are you trying to slip something through, or start something up?

I have no idea what you're talking about. My memory is on permanent sabbatical. Enlighten me. 🙄

 

[nerd4hire]

Actually Dzhugi, you might get a pass. I think the last time this was discussed you were relatively new here. Slayer Power has to have been around 1 of the twenty or so times this has been debated though.

I'll just give you a link to catch you up to speed. I'll chose this one.

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=20079

as it isn't so much a debate as a discussion of the support for either theory.

It will be so great if Joss gives us the final answer to this question in his upcoming Season 8 comic. Then we don't have to do this anymore.

 

[Schillaci]

I only read your first post in that thread. I don't think you proved anything. It seems your only real "proof" is that the characters believed the line ran through Buffy.

We can go through the show, episode by episode, and show other things the characters believed were true, but turned out to be false..if you wish. Which I don't, because I'm lazy.

See, I work with logic. Its how I convince the little people that Jesus couldn't be more buoyant than water.

 

[nerd4hire]

First of all I have to apologize to slayerpower. I got her confused with another member who's been around here a long time. I look at her stats, and see that's not her. (Unless her stats got corrupted somehow).

Now Dzhugi, as I recall it wasn't the intent of the first post on that thread to prove anything. Wasn't that the one where both arguments were laid out - "Only through Faith", and "The line is altered in Season 6".

Actually if you had read the whole thread you would have discovered it doesn't say there is only one possible conclusion. It says both conclusions can be considered. There is however more support for the "The line is altered in Season 6" theory in Season 7.

Edit

In fact...is this the one?

I'll run down the Basics of either arguement for you.

There are 2 sides. The first side claims Season 7 doesn't make sense unless Buffy's death by mystical forces and rebirth in Season 6, resulted in the slayer line once more running through Buffy. It may also continue to run through Faith, but Season 7 tells us the line now runs, at least through Buffy.

The other side of the arguement tells us "No. The slayer line runs through Faith and only Faith until Faith dies. All the inconsistencies in Season 7 when you believe this don't matter, because they were just the writers making mistakes. Joss and other writers have stated in interviews, the line can only run through Faith. That's all that matters.

I'll outline the intricacies of the arguements for you.

Slayer line alters in Season 7 camp.

* Joss made a statement in an interview where he said he didn't understand the problem some people had with Season 7, because it was "didactic in it's clarity". This is important I think, because what Joss appears to be saying is "believe what you see in Season 7"

* It isn't just Buffy who says the line now runs through Buffy in Season 7. It's also Dawn and The First, and it is perhaps implicit in the words or actions of Giles, Anya, Willow and Xander.

* We know the "Faith only" rule to be false, because at the end of Season 7 the slayer line goes all over the place.

* Beljoxa's eye tells us distinctly there is a "disruption in the slayer line".

* Giles tells us the "disruption in the slayer line" was caused by Buffy coming back from the dead. Anya tells us it was a result of the spell her and Tara cast.

* If the disruption in the line does not have something to do with Buffy, then why does the First want to kill Faith, and keep Buffy alive.

* There is no interview, or verifiable statement from Joss, or any of the writers after Season 6, stating the line can only run through Faith. Joss said it pre-season 6. Marti Noxon said it way before that, but I've never seen such a statement that would cover Season 7, nor to I believe one exists. Someone always says they know of one, but they can never produce it.

Only Faith is and can ever be the one true slayer arguement

* One of the writers (they're never sure exactly who) said (they can never tell you where) that only Faith could ever be the real slayer. They said this after Season 6. Don't ask for a link to the information, because if you do you're being a child.

* Everything in Season 7 that seems to suggests the contrary is just writer error.

* The fact that Season 7 makes sense if you believe the slayer line has been corrupted and changed after The Bargaining doesn't matter. It's better to believe the line can only run through Faith just because it is. It doesn't matter if we know the slayer line can be altered from Chosen. Ignore that.

 

[Schillaci]

Sure, it's just you mentioned something about bones in that earlier post.

I have no problem with the line running only through Buffy/ only through Faith/ through both of them.

There are some things, however, that don't make sense. And I kinda take umbrage at your Whedon quote in that thread. "Season 7 is didactic in its clarity". You do know Whedon is actually a total moron, right?

Season 7 is a fuzzy mess of gargantuan proportions. Its message is clear. The story is not.

 

[nerd4hire]

See here's the problem I have. The "only through Faith" people recite the tenet as a dogma without any support. The arguement never holds up. It is always defeated. It's too easy to show there is support for another possibillity that makes as much if not more sense based on what the scripts tell us.

Put more clearly. If someone says,

This is not true. Faith was still the active slayer in the last season. It was just a mess up by the writers.

I can show them why that isn't necessarily the case.

 

[Schillaci]

Sure, the "only through Faith" crowd must base their argument on the simple fact that no slayer appears after Buffy's death. That's a fact, impossible to argue against. However that there was no appearance doesn't mean such a slayer didn't exist, but its highly unlikely. Why weren't the council involved?

I don't think the line passed through Buffy. And I have yet to be convinced otherwise, which I can be... I'm not stubborn.:silly:

 

[Wicked]

Are you guys actually arguing about an old arguement? Cant you just go back to that thread? 😛

 

[nerd4hire]

It's important to emphasize though the arguement which suggests the possibillity the slayer line is altered, doesn't say the line is altered before Season 6. The line would still pass only through Faith at the time of The Gift.

The theory suggests the slayer line was altered as a result of Willow's spell in Bargaining.

 

[Schillaci]

It's important to emphasize though the arguement which suggests the possibillity the slayer line is altered, doesn't say the line is altered before Season 6. The line would still pass only through Faith at the time of The Gift.

The theory suggests the slayer line was altered as a result of Willow's spell in Bargaining.

Nice. I want you to imagine a river, N4H. A large beautiful river, with fish and the most precious water, so succulent to drink of. Do you think it is only possible to disturb the flow of the water from within the river? Can I not add something to it, externally, and alter its flow?

 

[nerd4hire]

Sure. They're called beavers. What's your point? :kiss:

 

[Schillaci]

Remove add from my previous post, and change it with affect. 😉

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Well surely first thing that needs establishing is 'did Buffy die on the table in Villains?'.
Before you decide your answer remember, Buffy can't have actually died in Prophecy Girl and another Slayer was activated.
We do know that the machine flatlined.

 

[nerd4hire]

I don't know. I know this is what Xander believes in Dirty Girls.

She's laid down her life—literally—to protect the people around her. This girl has died two times, and she's still standing.

Two times from Xander's view would be Prophecy Girl, and The Gift. The question is, is two times the way the writers saw it, because if it is, there is no conflict as far as the alternate slayer line theory goes.

Suppose you want to read more into it though. Suppose you want to say, "well Xander just didn't see the flat-line". If you do that you create the possibillity of reading stuff in beyond what's in the script. By the same rules you can say, "well maybe there's another slayer running around somewhere." The flat-line scene doesn't prove, or disprove the alternate slayer line theory.

 

[killerdwarf]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggghhhh!

It has lurched from its crypt and is marauding the countryside! The thing from the depths!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!

 

[slayerpower]

What makes you guys think that Buffy was the official slayer after season 6? It was never said, except Buffy, who I still think messed that up. If what she said was true, wouldn't it have be touched upon in later episodes? Having a throwaway line to make a big statement seems weird.

 

[nerd4hire]

Well...let's try to quote this one more time then.

* It isn't just Buffy who says the line now runs through Buffy in Season 7. It's also Dawn and The First, and it is perhaps implicit in the words or actions of Giles, Anya, Willow and Xander.

* We know the "Faith only" rule to be false, because at the end of Season 7 the slayer line goes all over the place.

* Beljoxa's eye tells us distinctly there is a "disruption in the slayer line".

* Giles tells us the "disruption in the slayer line" was caused by Buffy coming back from the dead. Anya tells us it was a result of the spell her and Tara cast.

* If the disruption in the line does not have something to do with Buffy, then why does the First want to kill Faith, and keep Buffy alive.

* There is no interview, or verifiable statement from Joss, or any of the writers after Season 6, stating the line can only run through Faith. Joss said it pre-season 6. Marti Noxon said it way before that, but I've never seen such a statement that would cover Season 7, nor do I believe one exists. Someone always says they know of one, but they can never produce it.

I'd also like to say again the alternate slayer line theorists don't claim it is the one, possible, and only truth. They say it is not. They claim it is an alternative possibillity. It is the "only through Faith" people, who claim they are the true purveyors of the ultimate truth as regards slayers in Season 7. We alternate slayer people simply say, "no you're not." There's actually more support for the slayer line passing through buffy in season 7 than there is through Faith.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

* It isn't just Buffy who says the line now runs through Buffy in Season 7. It's also Dawn and The First, and it is perhaps implicit in the words or actions of Giles, Anya, Willow and Xander.

Buffy generally has a superiority complex. Fact is, she isn't the best source of information regarding this as she really doesn't know what is happening, its all guess work.
Dawn, well not being funny but I would never class her as an expert.
The First is a plausible until you realise it isn't as 'Omniscient' as it likes to suggest. Fact is, the First Evil is nothing more than talking air....though i'm more inclined to believe what it says over Dawn the Scoobies and Buffy, we still don't know if what it says is the truth.

* We know the "Faith only" rule to be false, because at the end of Season 7 the slayer line goes all over the place.

What we do know is that pre-chosen there are 2 active Slayers, Post Chosen all potentials are active Slayers. But we have no real understand what that means in terms of the Slayer Line.

* Beljoxa's eye tells us distinctly there is a "disruption in the slayer line".

Yes, it does.
It says the cause is 'The Slayer' then we cut away.

* Giles tells us the "disruption in the slayer line" was caused by Buffy coming back from the dead. Anya tells us it was a result of the spell her and Tara cast.

Yes, but Giles never says that the Slayer Line is now running through Buffy meaning she is THE Slayer.
We make this assumption even though its a pretty sound one, its still only that. We are still unsure exactly what is going on.

* If the disruption in the line does not have something to do with Buffy, then why does the First want to kill Faith, and keep Buffy alive.

Well its been a while since I saw the Angel episode and just as long since her season 7 stint, however the attempt on Faiths life was weak at best.
And, I might be wrong it is 3am, there was only the one attempt in Prison wasn't there?
We still aren't given a definitive reason why Buffy is to be kept alive, apart from the only reason I can think of....its her show.

* There is no interview, or verifiable statement from Joss, or any of the writers after Season 6, stating the line can only run through Faith. Joss said it pre-season 6. Marti Noxon said it way before that, but I've never seen such a statement that would cover Season 7, nor to I believe one exists. Someone always says they know of one, but they can never produce it.

But this doesn't constitute as proof does it?
This just means that no one said on record anything regarding this.


See, i'm kinda on the side of all the information posted above because its all plausible makes sense....i mean its not gonna keep me laying awake at night...i just want to say that, none of the above constitutes actual proof of what was actually happening, its just a theory that has yet to be affirmed by Joss.

It strikes me as strange that this is the most commonly held theory yet no one has said 'Yes, thats it' which leads me to wonder if its not quite the full story and Joss was keeping it underwraps for future spin-offs or this comic.