Was Angel out of line?

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wiccianslayer

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who else thinks angel was outta line when he shouted at buffy saying get out of my town and she didnt know him among other things and he hit her
 
No, Angel wasn't out of line....if anyone was, it was Buffy! I can understand her anger and the conclusions she jumped to when she saw Angel and Faith together, but she could have backed off and let Angel explain. That's what she should have done....but ok, heat of the moment, whatever. Either way, whatever Angel was up to in LA, away from her, trying to make his own life, was not her call.
 
I loved this part of the episode, and i dont think he was out of line at all, in fact i kind of wanted her to bitch slap her again lol
 
E
Entiel
LOL!!!!:P
Buffy showed up in LA uninvited and unannounced. If anyone was out of line, it was her. Now, personally, I would not have slapped her, but I still would have yelled at her.
 
Does Buffy have to be invited to any city before she visits them??? Can Angel own a city??? Please...
 
I think I can see both sides of this. On Buffy's side, Faith had just attempted to take away her life, slept with her boyfriend, tried to kill her mother, threatened her friends, etc. etc. She was right to assume that Faith would go after Angel next, and right to try to take her out before she could do any more damage.

However, Angel was--again--getting somewhere with Faith. And this time, instead of Wesley barging in and ruining everything (who nobody liked at the time, anyway), Buffy does. If Faith hadn't wanted help (like she didn't in Enemies), Buffy's actions would have scared her off again.

Buffy had no reason to trust Faith. Angel did. Conflict was inevitable. I don't think it mattered where it happened; they would have fought about it. No, L.A. doesn't "belong" to Angel any more than Sunnydale "belongs" to Buffy. It was just a way for Angel to get the upper hand over Buffy in the argument.

So, I suppose that, yes, he was out of line. But so was she. So they're even. :angel:
 
I'm getting my timeline confused. Is this before or after Angel barges into Buffy's life in Sunnydale - once on Thanksgiving and once to get all antagonistic over Riley?
 
He didn't 'barge' in on Thanksgiving.

A couple differences.
1) Angel doesn't make himself known to Buffy in Pangs. He is definitely not ordering her around.
2) Doyle had a vision from the PTB's. In essence, the PTB's are telling him he must go help her. In this senario, Buffy is like all the other people he has helped in the past. Gotta say, it was a 'weak' reason for the PTB's to send Angel.

The Riley one.

Again, a couple of differences.
1) He was actually going to sort out what had occured including the bombshell she was seeing someone else.
2) He didn't demand she do things 'his way' while he was in Sunnydale.
3) Most of the stuff dealt with here was about the testosterone flying.

Although I see why you've suggested these because Angel went to Sunnydale, its actually completely different.
 
palabravampiress
palabravampiress
Good point! But I am still confused about the timeline.
I don't think either of them was really out of line.

Buffy came to make sure Angel was ok, now that wasn't her only motivation, she wanted vengence on both Faith and Angel. Faith for all the obvious reasons that I don't think we need to go into. Angel on the other hand, she was still unbeliveably pissed and hurt at his departure from Sunnydale, I don't think she really understood why he left. She had been his entire universe in Sunnydale and now she turns up in L.A. and realises it's not true anymore. I think that was a very bitter pill for her to swallow. He had Cordy and Wes, his very own Willow and Xander and at the time they seemed to be a hell of a lot closer than the Scoobies. Another blow for Buffy. Then she sees him with Faith and snaps. I think in her head Angel is very much hers and after Faith sleeping with Riley seeing her with Angel too pushed her over the edge. Now I could be pushing it with this theory but here it goes anyway, I think Buffy was also angry with Angel for Riley sleeping with Faith. In the back of her head there must be voice telling her that Angel would have known. I think that annoys her more than anything, especially since it was essentially Angel's doing that caused he relationship with Riley. More than anything I think she is confused and hurt by this new Angel. No matter what, he always had her back but now thats all changed cuz he has a job to do and for the first time since they met she is not a part of it. For anyone looking on you can see how far Angel has come since leaving Buffy and I think that breaks her heart, that he WAS right to leave, so as she is no place in his shiny brand new life she throws hers in his face to hurt him like she is hurting. Suddenly Buffy doesn't have the power in their relationship and so she hurts him the only way she knows how, with words and the life he wanted for her.

Angel was just doing his job in my opinion. Maybe he shouldn't have hit her. He didn't have time for her vendetta and he was cut up about Riley. The Day that Wasn't was still very fresh in his mind and even though he knew she would not remember I think a part of him hoped she would and was angry that she didn't. Then when she flung that bull about loving and trusting Riley, it was all he could take so he kicked her out of L.A.

Essentially I don't think it's about who was out of line, it's about two people who care deeply for each other not knowing how to exist in this new stage of their relationship, so they strike out and hurt one another to protect themselves. Like Spike said 'Your not friends, you'll never be friends'.
 
N
Nabila
Nicely put about both Angel and Buffy still in love with each other and hurting
Keanoite said:
I don't think either of them was really out of line.

Buffy came to make sure Angel was ok, now that wasn't her only motivation, she wanted vengence on both Faith and Angel. Faith for all the obvious reasons that I don't think we need to go into. Angel on the other hand, she was still unbeliveably pissed and hurt at his departure from Sunnydale, I don't think she really understood why he left. She had been his entire universe in Sunnydale and now she turns up in L.A. and realises it's not true anymore. I think that was a very bitter pill for her to swallow. He had Cordy and Wes, his very own Willow and Xander and at the time they seemed to be a hell of a lot closer than the Scoobies. Another blow for Buffy. Then she sees him with Faith and snaps. I think in her head Angel is very much hers and after Faith sleeping with Riley seeing her with Angel too pushed her over the edge. Now I could be pushing it with this theory but here it goes anyway, I think Buffy was also angry with Angel for Riley sleeping with Faith. In the back of her head there must be voice telling her that Angel would have known. I think that annoys her more than anything, especially since it was essentially Angel's doing that caused he relationship with Riley. More than anything I think she is confused and hurt by this new Angel. No matter what, he always had her back but now thats all changed cuz he has a job to do and for the first time since they met she is not a part of it. For anyone looking on you can see how far Angel has come since leaving Buffy and I think that breaks her heart, that he WAS right to leave, so as she is no place in his shiny brand new life she throws hers in his face to hurt him like she is hurting. Suddenly Buffy doesn't have the power in their relationship and so she hurts him the only way she knows how, with words and the life he wanted for her.

Angel was just doing his job in my opinion. Maybe he shouldn't have hit her. He didn't have time for her vendetta and he was cut up about Riley. The Day that Wasn't was still very fresh in his mind and even though he knew she would not remember I think a part of him hoped she would and was angry that she didn't. Then when she flung that bull about loving and trusting Riley, it was all he could take so he kicked her out of L.A.

Essentially I don't think it's about who was out of line, it's about two people who care deeply for each other not knowing how to exist in this new stage of their relationship, so they strike out and hurt one another to protect themselves. Like Spike said 'Your not friends, you'll never be friends'.
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I wish they could be friends, though!

I think adult Buffy and adult Angel could make very good friends. I think watching them reconnect as friends who love and respect one another could be a beautiful story. At this stage, yeah, they can't be friends. They still love each other too much. By the end of both series, though, they've both moved on a couple of times and had some pretty serious life-and-death shakeups. I think the past would be dulled a bit, or at least put in some perspective. First loves sticks with you, yeah, but only a little. My first love and I still look each other up when we find ourselves in the same side of the country. We don't love each other, but we can be friends and play a game of putt-putt and even share a dance at my wedding without weirdness. I'd like to see Buffy and Angel find that - with some world saving and ass kicking where I have putt-putt and dancing.
 
palabravampiress said:
I wish they could be friends, though!

I think adult Buffy and adult Angel could make very good friends. I think watching them reconnect as friends who love and respect one another could be a beautiful story. At this stage, yeah, they can't be friends. They still love each other too much. By the end of both series, though, they've both moved on a couple of times and had some pretty serious life-and-death shakeups. I think the past would be dulled a bit, or at least put in some perspective. First loves sticks with you, yeah, but only a little. My first love and I still look each other up when we find ourselves in the same side of the country. We don't love each other, but we can be friends and play a game of putt-putt and even share a dance at my wedding without weirdness. I'd like to see Buffy and Angel find that - with some world saving and ass kicking where I have putt-putt and dancing.
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Personally I think Spike was right, Buffy and Angel will never be friends. If I'm honest I don't really want them to be. I agree that your first love isn't always 'The One' but I do think Buffy and Angel are meant for each other. I'm hoping Joss will sort that out for me! Think Mr. and Mrs. Smith but with vampires!!
 
Mr. and Mrs. Smith? You want them to try to kill each other -- again?! That was a rough ride the first time, man! I don't think I could take it if Angel -- not Angelus, but Angel -- tried to kill Buffy again.

Silly me... wanting everything to be all cordial and teamworky. What universe do I think we're in? Surely not the Buffyverse! You're probably right. Joss likes for his couples to be dysfunctional and at each others' throats. He's all about the overwhelming passion. What's that they say? "Love makes you do the wacky?" lol.
 
Kean
Kean
Hahaha..exactly! but remember how Mr. and Mrs. Smith ended? they lived happily ever after to assasain aother day! thats how all true love stories should go!
No way! Not at all!

Imo, BUFFY was the one out of line 😉 She went to L.A, tried to attack Faith and threatened to kill her, and then hit Angel. Oh, and then talked about how she moved on and how she didn't care about him anymore. Insane, Buffy. Angel was completely right.
 
benboy606 said:
No way! Not at all!

Imo, BUFFY was the one out of line 😉 She went to L.A, tried to attack Faith and threatened to kill her, and then hit Angel. Oh, and then talked about how she moved on and how she didn't care about him anymore. Insane, Buffy. Angel was completely right.
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Angel was definitely in the right! He was trying to help someone.. Buffy wanted revenge. Plus, he loves her... and she keeps slapping him in the face with new people she keeps hooking up with.
 
GATEGOD said:
Angel was definitely in the right! He was trying to help someone.. Buffy wanted revenge. Plus, he loves her... and she keeps slapping him in the face with new people she keeps hooking up with.
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Exactly!

He was saving Faith's soul (sounds cheesy, but true), and all Buffy wanted to do was slap her around. And Faith was obviously sorry, and was apologizing like crazy. She was just scared, and Angel really knew it (especially from the last scene in "Five By Five").
 
He wasn't out of line. Buffy came in making orders like Angel was part of her "Scooby" gang and he's not. Angel never was and especially in the city he works in. LA is different than Sunnydale and Angel Investigations are dealing with some darker things. Buffy was out of her element there and Angel saw redeeming qualities in Faith. Buffy was too upset with Faith to see that so I think Angel was trying to allow Buffy to get some perspective.

Plus, the whole line where Buffy starts bragging about Riley sounded like some little school girl trying to make the ex mad. Angel had every right.
 
Exactly. I agree. Sunndydale and Los Angeles are too different worlds so speak. But Buffy had no right to come to LA in the manner that she did. I understand her feelings and I understand Angel's too. He was trying to help Faith once again and Buffy always assume the worst.

The bragging on Riley was so childish. I think she was only trying to make Angel angry because she was mad.

So definitely, he was not out of line.
 
Cordelia Chase* said:
Exactly. I agree. Sunndydale and Los Angeles are too different worlds so speak. But Buffy had no right to come to LA in the manner that she did. I understand her feelings and I understand Angel's too. He was trying to help Faith once again and Buffy always assume the worst.

The bragging on Riley was so childish. I think she was only trying to make Angel angry because she was mad.

So definitely, he was not out of line.
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I think this episode really showcased the maturity levels because here Buffy is fresh out of high school and Angel has been around for like 200 years or so. Buffy does the childish route by bragging on Riley and Angel could have played child games too. Instead he behaves very adult-like and fires back with a very mature, poignant answer. That was a very defining moment right there between the two.
 
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