Was Angel out of line?

The common consensus is clearly no. As for Angel's "This is my city" comment, he meant that L.A. was under HIS protection, the Slayer's presence was overkill. This episode is interesting as Buffy is portrayed as a villian or nemesis of some sorts, Angel has to race against time to stop her from possibly killing Faith.
 
Actually buffy was there first mind you angel was there in are you now or have you ever been GRRRR mind you the writers didn't plan that then so oh i dunno!
 
I think that the interaction between Buffy and Angel in this episode establish one thing for really the first time. Angel isn't Buffy's side kick anymore. Regardless of what their relationship was in the past or would be in the future he no longer deferred to her simply because she was Buffy, or even because she was the Slayer. Technically, in fact, it was actually Faith's territory, because she was THE Slayer, and had been ever since she was Called. The fact that Faith had temporarily gone evil for awhile never changed that. Buffy was just filling in while the REAL Slayer, the girl who was the latest in the Slayer line, either wouldn't or couldn't fulfill her duties.

Buffy was out of line, and deserved more than what she got. LA WAS his town, just as Sunnydale and the hellmouth was Buffy's territory. Buffy just had trouble accepting that.
 
A
Angel's vision
Amen to that!
I tell you what's interesting about this situation: it's symptomatic of Buffy quitting the WC. I'm not suggesting that in itself was a ill-advised move because as Giles and later Buffy pointed out, she is the one in the thick of it. However, there is now no overriding authority on such issues (although one may argue there was never one to begin with).

Doyle and Wesley both touch upon some interesting terms in regards to Buffy and Angel respectively: "Renegade"/Vigilante. I've always maintained this means Buffy and Angel do not have 'imposed' authority, in fact they are their own bosses and they make their own rules. Faith isn't implicitly Buffy's responsibility nor Angel's. Both of them chose their paths and chose how to deal with such situations. Sunnydale isn't anyone's territory nor is LAs, Buffy and Angel chose to operate in those places.

A year before, Wesley gave Buffy a lecture on laws that have existed before civilisation but Buffy didn't care and to be honest I agree that, blindly following a patriarcal sytem, who seemed just as interested in dominance as they do in justice required a step that empowers Buffy and the individuals working with her. For a long time, Giles, Angel, the scoobies, all cooperated as a team. Although Buffy has made the plans, she as also taken advice, and let others make decisions in leiu of her.

Cooperation is fine, great even until we have a disagreement. If they are in disagreement, does anyone pull rank and if so, in which situation?

Buffy wanted revenge on Faith but also believed that Faith should be punished. I'll take punishment by prison out of the equation because I agree with Wes and Angel that holding a Slayer in prison against her will is pretty dumb, I'm still not even sure why Buffy suggested it, (perhaps her anger was chipping away at her IQ points). So the only option left that Buffy was willing to adhere to was 'Slayer law'. In other words Buffy would get the final say as to what happens to Faith. After everything that Faith did to her, she feels she has a right to make that call.

Angel doesn't think Faith should simply get away with what happened. If she were totally soulless or sociopathic, this may be different but he believed that Faith did feel remorse for her actions and therefore, simply living with it is punishment in itself. He also thinks Buffy intervention will have a detrimental effect on Faith's redemption. Angel believes in saving souls, that's the path he's defined for himself. He chooses not to let Buffy interfere because it goes against that credo. His soul saving mission is part of his redemption and he isn't about to let Buffy balls it up.

Both viewpoints seem incompatible and this is problematic when dealing with the good and plenties. Unlike the WC and Initiative or even institutions of evil, their main priority isn't simply the jealous coveting of power, it's about what's right or what they believe is right. I personally don't think Buffy has rank over Angel in LA or Sunnydale unless they somehow formally agree on guidlines. Angel implied that they had agreed to 'deal' with their respective towns but as I think Keanoite said, that was as much about their relationship as it was about jurisdiction, arguably more so.

The saving grace happens in The Yoko Factor when Angel apologizes for what happened in LA. At first I though "Why does Angel have to apologize?" but then I looked at it from Angel's perspective. It wasn't simply about being right but mending the fractures in the relationship. Buffy also apologized for making judgements about Angel was trying to do. This doesn't magic away the issues between Faith and Buffy (as we see) nor does completely define the lines of authority among the good and plenties. What it does do is instigate the foundatioms of a situation where Champions can coexist and cooperate without being too detrimental to each others mission statement. This is more likely to happen when Angel and Buffy at not fighting each other as champions or ex-lovers.
 
The common consensus is clearly no. As for Angel's "This is my city" comment, he meant that L.A. was under HIS protection, the Slayer's presence was overkill. This episode is interesting as Buffy is portrayed as a villian or nemesis of some sorts, Angel has to race against time to stop her from possibly killing Faith.

i think she's portrayed so because, as Angel said, she went to L.A. mainly for Faith, she knows that Angel can look after himself. she just wanted revenge on Faith, understandably so, but that didn't give her the right to barge in on things when she could see that Angel was getting somewhere with Faith.
Also it annoys me that Buffy seems to think its fine for her to hit someone but is shocked when they hit her back, she deserves a good slapping sometimes
 
you know what i know everyone's going to disagree with me but buffy coming to L.A. was not out of line. Buffy trying to kill faith was not out of line and i dont get why anyone would say it was faith not only harassed and tormented buffy but took over her body and was going to let her rot away in england and even tried to beat her to death how is that not out of line. Though she came to L.A. seeking vengeance i think she really was concerned about angel well being and with good motives because if you guys seemed to forget faith not only came to L.A. unannounced but she tried to kill angel gave cordy a black eye and tortured wesley. I mean I get it she wasn't mentally stable but D@mn. sure buffy may have said some hurtful things but how can you blame her faith had just used her(buffy) body to sleep with a guy she loved. And to find her(faith) cuddled up with angel it was too much. Someone mention how angel was trying to help faith but how many time did buffy try and like she said faith spat on her. And to kick buffy out of L.A. please how many times has angel showed up unannouced.
 
W
willow23
Angel, is a collasal hippocrite.
you know what i know everyone's going to disagree with me but buffy coming to L.A. was not out of line. Buffy trying to kill faith was not out of line and i dont get why anyone would say it was faith not only harassed and tormented buffy but took over her body and was going to let her rot away in england and even tried to beat her to death how is that not out of line. Though she came to L.A. seeking vengeance i think she really was concerned about angel well being and with good motives because if you guys seemed to forget faith not only came to L.A. unannounced but she tried to kill angel gave cordy a black eye and tortured wesley. I mean I get it she wasn't mentally stable but D@mn. sure buffy may have said some hurtful things but how can you blame her faith had just used her(buffy) body to sleep with a guy she loved. And to find her(faith) cuddled up with angel it was too much. Someone mention how angel was trying to help faith but how many time did buffy try and like she said faith spat on her. And to kick buffy out of L.A. please how many times has angel showed up unannouced.
as another poster said, whenever Angel has turned up before he hasn't demanded that they do things his way. i dont think buffy turning up is the question, its how she treated Angel when she got there. Her feelings toward Faith are understandable considering all she did but Buffy knew prison wouldn't do anything for Faith or even hold her for long if she didn't want to be there. so what was she going to do, kill her? She failed to help Faith before but in sunnydale Angel almost got through to her before Wesley kidnapped her, so Buffy should have been ready to let Angel carry on what he was doing, after all he knows what its like to be a killer and come back
 
as another poster said, whenever Angel has turned up before he hasn't demanded that they do things his way. i dont think buffy turning up is the question, its how she treated Angel when she got there. Her feelings toward Faith are understandable considering all she did but Buffy knew prison wouldn't do anything for Faith or even hold her for long if she didn't want to be there. so what was she going to do, kill her? She failed to help Faith before but in sunnydale Angel almost got through to her before Wesley kidnapped her, so Buffy should have been ready to let Angel carry on what he was doing, after all he knows what its like to be a killer and come back


Okay fair I guess I'm a little bias due to it being Buffy.
 
S
Scythus
lol, we're all a little biased
mmm... I think that Buffy had a right to be there, but maybe she shouldn't have acted exactly the way she did. Angel had a better chance at getting through to Faith than Buffy did, but Buffy was angry (WHO WOULDN'T BE) so I can completely understand her reasons for behaving the way she did. I think that if Buffy had have walked in on Angel by himself and he'd first had a chance to explain everything, things would have gone a lot better. I think that the fact that they were hugging is what ticked Buffy off. I mean, Faith had stolen her body, slept with her boyfriend, sent her packing to a Watchers Council prison, nearly killed her mom, and hurt her and her friends many times before, oooh and I forgot to mention she was plotting to destroy the world (or at least Sunnydale) with the Mayor the year before. I'd be mad too.
 
what i dont get is buffy seemed like i completely different person on angel she was acting like a bit of a bitca but on buffy as faith walks away its almost like she understands and she feels faiths pain and the next thing shes on angel going off her head?
 
I just watched this episode, but I don't watch Angel (at least at this point in time) so my opinion might not be very valid. So anyway...I don't think Buffy had the right to make such accusations when she didn't really know what was going on. Buffy has a tendency of having her emotions cloud her logic (from what I've seen anyway) and this episode is one example of it. From what my mind formed, she is under the impression that Angel is trying to "get with" Faith (I had no idea how to put this!) and that his proable feelings for her are clouding the fact that Faith "is" (from Buffy's memory and experience) dangerous. In Buffy's defence, she HAD tried to help Faith but her fellow Slayer didn't have that intention. Because of her (Buffy's) love for Angel and her dislike and distrust of Faith, she of course would be jealous of the hug that Angel and Faith shared.

I don't think Buffy tried to make it how she wanted. She wanted Faith to go to jail of course because of her experiences with Faith have rarely been good. I think those experiences made her express herself very forcefully. But I also think if Angel had been in her position, he might have done the same.

In the struggle where Buffy tried to prevent Faith from leaving, I think it was pretty natural for Buffy to strike Angel (it's her nature really...he was struggling so she fought back in the way she knows how). In the heat of the moment I think it was natural for Angel to strike back. Of course, it would be absolutly natural for Buffy to react the way she did, shocked. After all, it's Angel.

However, on the other side, I think Angel was right in that Buffy came to LA because of Faith not because of Angel. Buffy may have been worried about Angel, but because she was afraid that FAITH would try to destroy Angel's life as she had nearly destroyed Buffy's. She was concerened about Angel being manipulated by Faith so wasn't prepared to listen to any argument that Faith might have been rehabilitating. Angel was right in that fact, and I think he had a valid point. Also to defend Angel, I don't think he "kicked her out of LA". From what I heard, he said that she can't make the rules about goings on in "his city" which is valid because she doens't live in LA. She lives in Sunnydale. If Angel had gone to Sunnydale and tried to tell Buffy that she was doing wrong in being with Riley, or whatever (that's just a random example) then I think Buffy would have reacted the same way. As to the "Get out" comment, I was under the impression after the episode that he just meant get out of the building, away from him. Yes, it also can mean to get out of LA, but I don't think that was his intention.
 
It can be summed up in 6 words. *Buffy was wrong, Angel was right.*
 
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