Was Dawn a good decision ?

[Ted]

I dont know if im alone here but I feel that bringing dawn into the show might have been a really bad idea. I do beleive that Michelle played the part very well and that bringing dawn into the show set up some very very good episodes and arcs, however.

1. I feel that it forced Buffy to grow up too quickly and i really liked the young, vibrant, witty and innocent buffy but after the invlusion of Dawn I seem to view Buffy in a different light.

2. It completely changes everything that was done before it. We find out that Dawn was buffy's sister all along and the gang remember Dawn being there as well. So when i think back to earlier seasons i end up thinking about dawn. Like in Ted, how would have Dawn played a part in that episode? How would have she reacted to buffy running away from home ?

And yet no one in the gang knows what it would have been like without Dawn, even though the fans do. Its quite confusing.

 

[InsaneMystic]

They definitely took a HUGE gamble there, the insertion of Dawn had insanely big jump-the-shark potential... I don't think anyone but Joss Whedon would dare pull a stunt like that one off on purpose (meaning, having planned it two years in advance with massive foreshadowing), when insertion of a long-lost/previously unknown family member is usually - rightly - considered a desperate measure of "we've lost the plot and grasp for straws trying to come up with new stories anymore".

Also, S5 was - IMO at least, I know that many people will ferociously disagree - a very shaky season in all, possibly the weakest one in the whole show. It's not Dawn I mainly blame that on, though... especially as when the show got back on track come S6&7, Dawn (and MT playing Dawn!) pretty much had found her place solidly in the ensemble; I'd find it hard imagining the late seasons without her.

I've got to disagree on your judgment of Buffy growing up too quickly; the maturation of Buffy in the later seasons was one of the things I liked most about her character; pre-Dawn Buffy tends to annoy me more than most other Scoobies, and her moments of brainless bimbo Revertigo (if you don't know what that is, go watch HIMYM. Now. 😛) whenever the Bad Hair Dude shows up spotlight that maturation strongly. It's definitely a bonus to me, and it may not have happened without the surrogate mother role forced onto her by Dawn, so I'm glad the kid sister got pulled out of the proverbial hat.

You've got a point though with it being, well, less than satisfying in quite a number of cases to deal with the fact that the Scoobies remember four seasons worth of episodes differently than we know they "really" happened, and much like the Apocalypse in "The Zeppo", we'll never hear the other story told. But that's Joss for you, I guess - always making the viewers go Tantalus. :evillol:

 

[Willow My Love]

I really didn't think so. I don't like Dawn at all. She is my absolute least favorite character, right before Spike. Yeah, she played in to the whole s5 plot and all, but I think they could have come up with something different.

That being said, I have nothing against MT. She played the character perfectly. I just don't like the character.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

I liked the character of Dawn. I really liked the whole story of Dawn being Buffy's fake sister and was definitely a huge twist and very creative in the plot.

I do agree that it made Buffy grow up too quickly and I do miss her young wittiness.

Also, I wish they had someone else play the part of Dawn. Michelle isn't really that great of an actress which I find makes Dawn even more annoying.

But overall, I'm glad they brought Dawn into the show.

 

[ticonderouga]

Forcing Buffy into a more adult role is the whole point of bringing in Dawn as a character. It was always Joss's intent to kill off Joyce and without Dawn I think that Buffy would have become a much darker character, perhaps even darker then she became in season 6. That surrogate parents role that Buffy is forced into gives her a real world role that is just as important (if not more important) as her duties as the Slayer. This creates a great internal conflict between these two roles that literally generated three very good seasons. So while Dawn is not my favorite character in any way, I do think that as a plot device she is necessary to the way the rest of the story unfolded.

It would be interesting to think what many episodes would have been like with Dawn around. For example would Buffy have told Dawn that she was the slayer before she told Joyce? Also what would Dawn's reaction have been when Buffy split after season 2? What would Dawn and Faith's relationship been like? Judging by Dawn's reaction to Faith in Dirty Girls, I think they might have been kinda close. Again the scene where Faith holds Joyce captive, how would Faith treat Dawn.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I really love Dawn and so I have to disagree- I thought it was a very good addition to the story! 🙂 I love that Buffy now had someone other than her mother and her friends to keep her grounded, considering that Joyce was always going to be killed off and the Scoobies were all growing up. Family is the biggest theme of Season 5 IMO, and having Dawn was really excellent. It's especially great seeing the different generations of Summers women.

 

[Ianigsy]

The idea that Dawn being brought into being retrospectively changed the previous four years is really ambitious if you think about it, and it's a shame that the series never really explored that- imagine, for example, that having to look after her sister meant that Buffy didn't save somebody who lived in the version of events we actually saw in the first four seasons. Angelus would certainly have tried to get to Buffy through her, too.

I think the need for the character, though, came about because the series grew up with its first audience- in what was basically formatted as a teen series, the teenagers who were watching from the beginning would have been 18-20 by the time of S5 so the introduction of a younger character brought a new identification figure in as well as giving Buffy more responsibilities.

 

[VisionGirl]

I think the need for the character, though, came about because the series grew up with its first audience- in what was basically formatted as a teen series, the teenagers who were watching from the beginning would have been 18-20 by the time of S5 so the introduction of a younger character brought a new identification figure in as well as giving Buffy more responsibilities.

I think that's an interesting thought, but Dawn's addition was foreshadowed in season 3, and do you think Joss was thinking about that at that point?

I do like the addition of Dawn. Season 5 was about family, but also about Buffy coming to terms with her struggle with her identity. Having that blood family (yes, she was mystical, but physically a part of her) did ground her & gave more weight to the First Slayer's comments "You are full of love". I remember writing about this more in depth in the season 5 sub-forum when I was re-watching. I'd have to go look back to remember my thoughts at the time LOL.

I don't mind MT. I do wish they had changed the writing after they decided to use an actual teenager (rather than a younger girl that the role had been written for).

 

[Hale Caesar]

Most people will agree with you, Dawn SUUUCKS. There are so many bad things about her

- Michelle Tratchenberg is an awful actress, whenever she's in a scene with James Marsters or SMG she just looks so awkward

- HER CHARACTER BROKE UP THE SCOOBIES. Dawn's character is the first crack in the Scoobies relationship. Everyone focuses on taking care of Dawn, and we never see the camaraderie that was in seasons 1-4

- All she does is b*tch and moan. Which was alright in season 5 because it was her character...but then she spent all of season 6 doing the same thing. Season 7 Dawn was ok, but she was already too far gone...and Michelle's comedic timing sucks

- Season 5 was about family, I like that theme. But didn't Buffy already have the Scoobies, which were basically her family? The only difference was Dawn was her blood family

I really can't think of any redeeming qualities about Dawn. IMO, Joss screwed up with her, and she's a big reason why I like Angel better than BtVS

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think as far as advancing Buffy's development then yes it was a good (though ambitious) decision to include her. I would have liked to see her being a bit younger though like the original plan, that way her moaning about being neglected in season 6 would make more sense.

 

[Ianigsy]

I think that's an interesting thought, but Dawn's addition was foreshadowed in season 3, and do you think Joss was thinking about that at that point?

Actually, I wouldn't rule it out- S3 was Buffy's last year in High School, and I wouldn't put it past Joss to think it might be cool to trail something that wasn't going to pay off until two years hence on the grounds that if the series took another direction it could just be left hanging or worked around. After all, the First is introduced at around the same time, built up as this powerful ancient menace sitting underneath Sunnydale and then everybody forgets about it for three years.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I feel that they created a season for her instead of creating her for a season, and later on won't matter much. What I mean is, they had an idea of getting Buffy a sister, so they have created a whole season that will be all around her. After that season, she was just there, a little unnecessary. We could have lived very well without her. She was good for one season and that's it. They could have killed her off by the end of season 5 and she wouldn't have been missed.

Plus, she's annoying, and I don't like being annoyed.

 

[ticonderouga]

I think that Dawn was necessary to Buffy's development as a character, even though I find Dawn to be kind of annoying myself. If nothing else they needed a character that could be put into jeopardy on a regular basis, the rest of the Scoobies could pretty much handle most situations on their own by this point.

Also, I don't think that they could have killed her off before Season 7, because Dawn is the link that keeps Buffy going through Season 6, even when she is at her lowest point.

 

[Washburne]

Yes. Dawn was a good idea. Very much so. However...


A good idea doesn't always end up the best way possible. Which is how Dawn turned out, and it took way too long and many downs before the majority saw her real potential. When she (season 7)

Spoiler

kicked Buffy out of her own home.

And like that people hated her again. With that said, I'm very happy that she was brought into the show and I won't join any hate train. I'll always defend her. Reasons? Read earlier posts.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I think if Dawn had been younger as they originally intended, she wouldn't have been as annoying to many viewers. I mean you wouldn't get upset with a 9-10 year old feeling neglected as you would a 14-15 year old who has her own friends and is constantly trying to hang out with them but still wants all of the Scoobies' attentions.

 

[ticonderouga]

I think if Dawn had been younger as they originally intended, she wouldn't have been as annoying to many viewers. I mean you wouldn't get upset with a 9-10 year old feeling neglected as you would a 14-15 year old who has her own friends and is constantly trying to hang out with them but still wants all of the Scoobies' attentions.

I can see your point, but I think this had the potential to become just too cute, which is why Joss Whedon decided to go with Dawn around 14-15. If anything I think they should have just written her to be a little more mature and a lot less whiney.

 

[LizzieRainbow]

I actually think having Dawn in the show was a good decision. You see one of the things i love about the show is it shows the characters growing up and getting older and changing (unlike cartoons like the simpsons where they have been the same age for 22 years). Bringing Dawn into the show showed Buffy having to make the change from a child to an Adult. Even though she was a bit more grown up in Season 4 when she was in college there wasn't enough of a change to show her becoming an adult. Having Dawn in the show changed Buffy into an adult (especially when Joyce died).

 

[Goby]

I actually think having Dawn in the show was a good decision. You see one of the things i love about the show is it shows the characters growing up and getting older and changing (unlike cartoons like the simpsons where they have been the same age for 22 years). Bringing Dawn into the show showed Buffy having to make the change from a child to an Adult. Even though she was a bit more grown up in Season 4 when she was in college there wasn't enough of a change to show her becoming an adult. Having Dawn in the show changed Buffy into an adult (especially when Joyce died).

Agree!

Any annoyance in Season 5 and Season 6 was forgiven when she sang the Anchovy Song in "Conversations with Dead People."

 

[Stakesteak]

I consider the insertion of Dawn to be one of the worst/laziest bits of writing of any television show I have ever watched. Whether I like or dislike the character doesn't really factor into this, what matters is that they retroactively introduced a kid sister for Buffy and completely retconned all prior events in the previous 4 seasons. We as an audience have no idea what all the characters think happened in all those episodes, we didn't see it. What we saw happen while loyally watching the show was made completely irrelevant from that point on; at best we got the gist of how things went down. It's hard not to feel cheated by that and it's honestly a bit hard to understand how other people don't.

Another big beef I have, as others have previously stated, is that introducing Dawn dramatically changed the dynamic of the show. The focus is no longer on Buffy and the scoobies, it now largely centers on Buffy and Dawn. While it's important to have the characters grow it's also important to have them evolve naturally. Introducing a kid sister is not character evolution, it's complete character revision. Buffy is forever changed by this as is the entire show. It's not like they show gradually moved to this either, it just all happened at once and BAM everything's different. That's just lazy writing.

I don't mind introducing new, important characters to the show. It's how shows stay fresh and interesting. The way they brought in Anya is a great example of bringing in a new character the right way. If they had Hank die in a car wreck or something like that and leave behind a half sister for Buffy and Joyce to take care of that'd be one thing. Heck, she could have died in the wreck too and then the monks brought her back to life by instilling The Key into her. Retroactively inserting a sister as if she'd always been there is another, far less ok thing. The least they could have done is restore everyone's memories at the end of The Gift but no, to all the characters Dawn had always been there from that point on.

 

[Icarium]

I consider the insertion of Dawn to be one of the worst/laziest bits of writing of any television show I have ever watched. Whether I like or dislike the character doesn't really factor into this, what matters is that they retroactively introduced a kid sister for Buffy and completely retconned all prior events in the previous 4 seasons. We as an audience have no idea what all the characters think happened in all those episodes, we didn't see it. What we saw happen while loyally watching the show was made completely irrelevant from that point on; at best we got the gist of how things went down. It's hard not to feel cheated by that and it's honestly a bit hard to understand how other people don't.

Another big beef I have, as others have previously stated, is that introducing Dawn dramatically changed the dynamic of the show. The focus is no longer on Buffy and the scoobies, it now largely centers on Buffy and Dawn. While it's important to have the characters grow it's also important to have them evolve naturally. Introducing a kid sister is not character evolution, it's complete character revision. Buffy is forever changed by this as is the entire show. It's not like they show gradually moved to this either, it just all happened at once and BAM everything's different. That's just lazy writing.

Word. Lazy writing is very good way of describing the addition of Dawn. The monks created all those fake memories because they weren't sure Buffy would defend the Key otherwise? You would think that the Earth going to hell if the key was used would be enough of an incentive. And why did these idiots thought Buffy could protect Dawn from Glory who was far stronger than her, I will never know. The whole thing is embarrassingly stupid. And I like Dawn, mind you. I just wish she had gotten a plot line that made a lick of sense.

Also, Buffy feeling obliged to defend Dawn at the cost of her own life is based to a very large extent on the emotional connection created by the fake memories. I just can't accept this as something that I should root for. It's like expecting me to root for Buffy/Xander in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered.