Was it naive to think Buffy was in hell?

She was extremely depressed and desolate, and didn't know how to relate to the world anymore. Who wouldn't be after being ripped out of heaven?

Someone mentioned Buffy dropping into a portal, but she didn't go INTO the portal, she closed it.

Willow is extremely irresponsible with her magics. She claimed in S6 that she just wanted to help people, but when you look back, I would say the vast majority of her spells were motivated by selfishness. And no, none of the others should have gone along with the resurrection spell, either. That was a blatant act against the natural order of things. (Which I don't really understand that Willow and Tara would think of doing this so easily after the speech to Dawn about not being able to resurrect Joyce. That always bothered me.)

Yeah, I know. I agree - I just thought that since it was a show and all, that they shouldn't of dragged it on until the end of the series. I haven't seen season 7 in awhile - but I think she was just as sad. It would of been nice if she was back to her old self by that season. When I picture Buffy from season 3-5 and season 6-7 I see two completely different personalities.
 
She was extremely depressed and desolate, and didn't know how to relate to the world anymore. Who wouldn't be after being ripped out of heaven?

Someone mentioned Buffy dropping into a portal, but she didn't go INTO the portal, she closed it.

Willow is extremely irresponsible with her magics. She claimed in S6 that she just wanted to help people, but when you look back, I would say the vast majority of her spells were motivated by selfishness. And no, none of the others should have gone along with the resurrection spell, either. That was a blatant act against the natural order of things. (Which I don't really understand that Willow and Tara would think of doing this so easily after the speech to Dawn about not being able to resurrect Joyce. That always bothered me.)

err willow helped dawn with her plan to resurrect joyce by pulling out the book she needed secretly

anyway your hindsight is 20/20 no one would have had a problem with the resurrection if it had all turned out great
 
err willow helped dawn with her plan to resurrect joyce by pulling out the book she needed secretly

anyway your hindsight is 20/20 no one would have had a problem with the resurrection if it had all turned out great
I did at the time. I mean, yeah, it was cool and all, but, I didn't like Willow for doing it. It was wrong. And the whole stabbing the deer thing made me sick to my stomach.

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

InsaneMystic said:
InsaneMystic agrees:
Thanks. I'm glad that some people understand what I'm saying.
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
Yup. No matter what the turnout, it wasn't something she had any business meddling with.
err willow helped dawn with her plan to resurrect joyce by pulling out the book she needed secretly

anyway your hindsight is 20/20 no one would have had a problem with the resurrection if it had all turned out great

Well, she didn't really mean to help her, she just wanted to give her some information to try to give her some peace of mind. Willow didn't know Dawn would be able to put a spell together from it until Tara told her.
 
PassionBecoming said:
Yup. No matter what the turnout, it wasn't something she had any business meddling with.
Exactly what I'm saying. I'm actually surprised that more people on here don't agree.
 
Was it naive? No, definitely not.

After Buffy's death, Willow justified bringing her back by saying that because her death was mystical, they actually could bring her back without the same consequences as those that would apply to someone like Joyce. Great, ok, makes sense. If Willow truly believed, (and had presumably done the research to back it up) that Buffy's death was truly mystical in nature; that it occurred on the way through the portal as it was being closed, then it would make sense that she was confident that Buffy truly was in a hell dimension, (namely Glory's "home.") Based on past experience, when a character dies in transit through a portal, they actually inhabit that portal.

Now, was it irresponsible? This time, there is a body. Willow would have had to make the logical leap that in this case, although Buffy's body didn't end up in the hell dimension, her essence separated itself and went without her. This didn't happen with Angel, or in the Wishverse, or in the demon underground factory in L.A. The rule as far as Willow knew had always been that when a being passes through a portal, it all goes together. So for Willow to assume that Buffy was in a hell dimension was irresponsible. Of course, Willow did freely admit that she didn't know, but that the possibility alone was so sickening that she couldn't think of what to do other than take action. And everyone else seemed to agree.
As the audience, I don't think we can assume that Willow has done the research to support the hypothesis that her essence could separate. We don't see her do it, and it doesn't come up in conversation. So it appears that more than anything else, Willow is desperate to have her best friend back.

Whether she was right or wrong is a matter of personal opinion, ultimately. But think about it in the context of the Buffyverse. These people are opening and closing portals and seals, bringing lives back and ending them, all of the time. Willow loves her friend and yes, selfishly--wants to bring her back. She has seen--for example--Angel spit back out of hell for no apparent reason, and from her perspective, why shouldn't Buffy have that luxury?

I also think we have to take into consideration that although Willow is the one who gets blamed, if Xander or even naysayers such as Giles and Spike had the power to do something about the possibility that Buffy was suffering torment in a hell dimension, who's to say that they eventually wouldn't have? I think the uncertainty would have been too much to bear for any of them, over time, given the ability to do something about it. I really do. But of course that's just opinion.

All that being said: is it wrong, what she did? Yes, in a very fundamental way. But it is more than understandable and I don't think it's a stretch to be able to sympathize.
 
Was it naive? No, definitely not.

After Buffy's death, Willow justified bringing her back by saying that because her death was mystical, they actually could bring her back without the same consequences as those that would apply to someone like Joyce. Great, ok, makes sense. If Willow truly believed, (and had presumably done the research to back it up) that Buffy's death was truly mystical in nature; that it occurred on the way through the portal as it was being closed, then it would make sense that she was confident that Buffy truly was in a hell dimension, (namely Glory's "home.") Based on past experience, when a character dies in transit through a portal, they actually inhabit that portal.

Now, was it irresponsible? This time, there is a body. Willow would have had to make the logical leap that in this case, although Buffy's body didn't end up in the hell dimension, her essence separated itself and went without her. This didn't happen with Angel, or in the Wishverse, or in the demon underground factory in L.A. The rule as far as Willow knew had always been that when a being passes through a portal, it all goes together. So for Willow to assume that Buffy was in a hell dimension was irresponsible. Of course, Willow did freely admit that she didn't know, but that the possibility alone was so sickening that she couldn't think of what to do other than take action. And everyone else seemed to agree.
As the audience, I don't think we can assume that Willow has done the research to support the hypothesis that her essence could separate. We don't see her do it, and it doesn't come up in conversation. So it appears that more than anything else, Willow is desperate to have her best friend back.

Whether she was right or wrong is a matter of personal opinion, ultimately. But think about it in the context of the Buffyverse. These people are opening and closing portals and seals, bringing lives back and ending them, all of the time. Willow loves her friend and yes, selfishly--wants to bring her back. She has seen--for example--Angel spit back out of hell for no apparent reason, and from her perspective, why shouldn't Buffy have that luxury?

I also think we have to take into consideration that although Willow is the one who gets blamed, if Xander or even naysayers such as Giles and Spike had the power to do something about the possibility that Buffy was suffering torment in a hell dimension, who's to say that they eventually wouldn't have? I think the uncertainty would have been too much to bear for any of them, over time, given the ability to do something about it. I really do. But of course that's just opinion.

All that being said: is it wrong, what she did? Yes, in a very fundamental way. But it is more than understandable and I don't think it's a stretch to be able to sympathize.
I could probably have more sympathy for her in that, if she didn't go bats**t crazy with power afterwards, threatening Giles and raping Tara's mind and stuff.
 
Gun Gnome, I tried to rep you again but the site wouldn't let me. Consider yourself complimented on, yet another, well thought out post!
 
Gum Gnome33
Gum Gnome33
Thanks a lot, FP!!
I think she went to hell when she was killed by the master...wasn't that brought up vaguely? Also, Angel went to hell so they just assumed. I didn't consider the possibility that she was in heaven until Buffy stated it herself. Willow didn't even want to consider the possibility that Buffy was suffering in hell after she saved them, so I think she was okay with taking a chance...as long as she got her friend back. It was all a little selfish.
 
After reading this entire thread, though many people had great points on both sides, I have to say that I can't change my mind on this subject. I fully understand the motivation Willow had to bring Buffy back.

Trying to conceptualize the idea that my best friend, someone who has saved my own life countless times, could possibly be stuck within some "hell dimension" being tormented for the rest of eternity is impossible. I would never even attempt to convince someone that I would not try and bring that person back, if I had even an ounce of the ability to try and do it. To say otherwise sounds ridiculous.


Also - I'd just like to point out and remind everyone (as I'm watching the season 6 premier now) that the end of the spell was interrupted by the buffybot and several vamps on motorcycles. For all we know, the gang could have shovels to the side but figured the spell was broken with the intruders and simply left. They ran from cover, not because they were finished. They would have had to have defeated the vamps to have gotten Buffy out...

Then again, they could have planned better.
I'd also like to mention that Willow/the gang could not have simply risen Buffy out of her coffin around the time she had a funeral (or at least, we're assuming she had one.)

XANDER
Can you believe the timing? He's
leaving right when we're doing-
(eyes Dawn)
The thing. Tonight.
WILLOW
I know. I was hoping we'd figure it
out before he left.

(From 6x01)


Seeing as something needed "figuring out," it seems as if it's not like the Scoobies were simply wasting time for three months while Buffy was dead. It also seems apparent that it was PLANNED by more than just Willow, with the use of the pronoun WE used by both characters in both statements.
 
Last edited:
I think she went to hell when she was killed by the master...wasn't that brought up vaguely? Also, Angel went to hell so they just assumed. I didn't consider the possibility that she was in heaven until Buffy stated it herself. Willow didn't even want to consider the possibility that Buffy was suffering in hell after she saved them, so I think she was okay with taking a chance...as long as she got her friend back. It was all a little selfish.

The vague reference to Buffy being in Hell, I thought that was when she was Anne in LA and she went underground to that place where they age really fast... I may be wrong.

I don't think it was wrong to assume she was in Hell. Angel died a mystical death and he went to Hell. Then the PTB brought him back. I just think they were all grieving really heavily and the possibility of Buffy being in Heaven didn't cross their minds.

I can understand their logic though. The Slayer going to hell because a hell-god opened a magical portal. She could have gone anywhere. She could have gone to the land of perpetual Tuesdays for all they knew...
 
The vague reference to Buffy being in Hell, I thought that was when she was Anne in LA and she went underground to that place where they age really fast... I may be wrong.

I don't think it was wrong to assume she was in Hell. Angel died a mystical death and he went to Hell. Then the PTB brought him back. I just think they were all grieving really heavily and the possibility of Buffy being in Heaven didn't cross their minds.

I can understand their logic though. The Slayer going to hell because a hell-god opened a magical portal. She could have gone anywhere. She could have gone to the land of perpetual Tuesdays for all they knew...

Haha technically they were all in the land of perpetual Tuesday 😉 and yeah I think in Anne, Anne (or Lily at the time) says something about them being in hell and then Buffy says, "No, this isn't hell" or something along the lines of that and it just seemed to imply that she'd been there.
 
W
Willow My Love
That and Xadner's, "Buffy, you've been to Hell. They have one bedrooms, right?"
Back
Top Bottom