Was this season good?

Connor got annoying but he made for an interesting character that made Angel question himself, his friends and his life.
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All the reasoning in the world will never make me believe he was interesting. The boy was annoying, the only time I liked him was season 5 when he wasn't Connor anymore. Angel spent his entire series questioning himself, his friends and his life, Connor didn't bring anything new to the table. Once Connor returned form the hell dimension we learn nothing about Angel's character that hadn't already been known. It was only when Connor was a baby that we saw another side of him.

Why you dogging on season 3 Cordy to start with?
She was the same girl just grown up.

As for season 4 - I loved her and at what point was she predictable?
She is cause of one of the greatest most twisted deaths in the show. I defy anyone to say they could have predicted Lilahs death.
Also the stuff with Connor - what?!?!
People people people please remember this wasn't Cordy.
This is exactly the same as blaming Angel for killing Jenny Calendar.
It was a great touch because it was so unsuspected and wrong and Angelus even comments on it being like Hamlet.
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Ok the season 3 comment was unfair, I take that back.
As for Lilah's death, I would call it the most unecessary death on Angel. Lilah was just pure gold and a complete asset to the show. Killing her, to me was stupid.
Even more so when she wasn't used the following season. AI take over W&H and she's not involved? Madness!
Like I said I KNOW IT WASN'T CORDY! but that doesn't mean I can't have a problem with it! Like I said before I felt CC camped it up too much, I think the real Cordy was missed and as villians go she was pretty boring!


So let me ask you, was it just this storyline you hated or every single episode/storyline of Buffy and Angel that played on an already much told story?
If its the latter, why do you watch the show, if its the former don't complain about one aspect being used while others are copied numerous times too.
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As Joss always said, its not what story yout telling it's about what you have to say about it. I don't understand what the show was trying to say with this arc. I would have no problem with it apart from the general ick factor associated with it if the story had a point. It seems like a fairly heavy topic to use as just a means to and ends i.e. Jasmine

Fair play, you moved on. I know I didn't. I loved this character, and I actually love the name. Its perfect in its simplicity. Like other characters in the show he was exactly what he was supposed to be and the name shows that.
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So, what? Scorn not his simplicity? You liked him, I was bored to tears.

Some could argue that the Vampire story has been done to death, the Frankenstein story too, the guy who did wrong in his past seeking redemption its ALL been done before, alot doesn't mean its wrong to redo it from a different angle.
Also, I don't get your reasoning for hating the Jasmine/World peace arc.
The cynic in you must tell you that for world peace there has to be a price and some would have to consider if that price was worth paying now thats what happened here.
Angel and the group thought Utopias price was too high, so you hate it because it agrees with what you believe?
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Like I said before it's about what you have to say about the story. Maybe my reasoning isn't exactly sound but Jasmine bothered me. No matter how great you tell me you think her arc was that won't change. I could burn your ears for hours about the brilliance of the Buffy/Angel love story but that wouldn't change the fact that it's not what you want to see. Same principal applies here.

Season 4 is amazing, every step of the way. I understand that some people got bogged down by the continuing arc but me, I loved it.
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I have no problem with a continuing arc, infact I love em, just not this arc.
 
C
Cordelia Chase*
I have to disagree. Killing Lilah wasnt stupid or unecessary. It was unexpected and excitng all in one!
As for Lilah being killed, I found it shocking at first but it made a beautiful end to Wes/Lilah storyline. With character's themselves, they didn't overplay the tragedy.

The practical element was the throw Wes off centre, like Angel seeing Cordy and Connor.
 
Currently in the middle of watching it again. Brilliant - the best season of Angel by far. And pretty much the ONLY season where I actually preferred Angel to the concurrent Buffy season. To be honest, I actually rather dislike seasons 2 and 3. Some decent standalones aside, they actually bore the pants off me at times. Don't care about Darla, don't care about Holtz, and sure as hell don't care about the overused and thoroughly tiresome Wolfram and Hart. And season 3's 'Saint Cordelia' arc really ticked me off.

Then season 4 comes along, and pretty much destroys everything I found tiresome and boring about the show in one fell swoop, and makes it gripping and exciting and thrilling as hell to boot. Wonderful. It's a great shame it ended after season 5, to my mind the show only found it's feet in Year 4.
 
At first I didn't like this season but now that I've been re-watching it I'm seeing more and more details and themes that I previously missed that makes this season probably not the best per se but definetely more deep and meaningful. It also does quite a bit of progression for the characters as well that I just love. Wesley becomes more dark and rogue-like and is able to hold his own now. I also loved the James Bond-like gadgets he was using. I also liked Angel's return to being more dark. While Angelus in Season 4 was not as good as Buffy Season 2 it was still worth watching.

What I also liked about this season was defining that fine gray line that exists between good and evil. On one hand, Angel stopped the evil acts of Jasmine but on the other hand destroyed a paradise-like society by doing so. Throughout season 4 it dealt with defining where that line is between good and evil.

So overall, I think this season definetely had those strong points to it and not as bad as I orignally thought.
 
The only thing I would've changed, is having a season like this AFTER Angel's life had things in life that he could appreciate all season long. It kinda went like this

Sleep Tight - Angel's life sucks again
Forgiving - Angel's life sucks
Double or Nothing - Angel's life sucks
The Price - Angel's life sucks even more
A New World - Angel's life sucks
Benediction - Angel's life found a whole new degree of suckage
Tomorrow - Angel's pretty god damn screwed right now
Deep Down - Angel's life still sucks
Ground State - Angel's life sucks a tad bit less
The House always wins - Ditto
Slouching towards bethlehem - Oops, Angel's life sucks again
Supersymmetry - And it still sucks
Spin the bottle - You think Angel's life sucks now?
Apocalypse Nowish - Think again!
Habeas Corpses - And yet, the degree of suckage continues to accelerate
Long Day's Journey - Angel's life sucks
Awakening - Angel's life is getting better? JUST KIDDING it sucks
Orpheus - Angel's back, and his life sucks better than ever
Inside Out - Did I mention Angel's life sucks?
The rest of Season 4 - Okay, you pretty much get the idea

I don't know, I think maybe if Season 3 wasn't as deep and depressing as it is, I would've been able to appreciate Season 4 a little more. It seemed to me like "Okay, it's not like I can feel any worse for Angel right now"
 
HyenaDemon said:
The only thing I would've changed, is having a season like this AFTER Angel's life had things in life that he could appreciate all season long. It kinda went like this

Sleep Tight - Angel's life sucks again
Forgiving - Angel's life sucks
Double or Nothing - Angel's life sucks
The Price - Angel's life sucks even more [...]
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While that list is great (you made my morning with it :biggrin🙂, there's just a big friggin' problem with it... For Angel, suckage simply is a way of life (I swear there's no pun intended).
You see,
HyenaDemon said:
Awakening - Angel's life is getting better? JUST KIDDING it sucks
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This proves the point. If Angel's life really started to get significantly better, he'd go bye-bye on his soul again. Like it or not, we're stuck with Ol' Mopey... at least he had good enough reasons for being like that in this season (which, did I mention it already, I really liked).
 
This is really the best season of Angel. Jasmine is the most interesting villain. The moral grays of the show were really the most prevalent and the best executed within this season. Not just in terms of Jasmine, but Lila, Wesley, and a whole host of other interesting plots that basically dealt with the question of whether free will was good or not and what good was versus evil. Connor's desperation and search for something to believe in is incredibly touching and very poetic.
 
While that list is great (you made my morning with it ), there's just a big friggin' problem with it... For Angel, suckage simply is a way of life (I swear there's no pun intended).
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Well, yeah. But I think they could've at least attempted to keep drama to a minimum.. at least until the dead end of Season 3. Then, you'd take a break from the drama... and be lulled into a false sense of security that nothing else in Angel's life can possibly be as bad as it was in Season 2.

I also would've made it so that Cordelia did this on her own free will. In a way that would make sense to her character, of course. Like, Cordelia, on the higher plane, sees atrocities in this world that make the things that happened in her visions earlier look like Hanna Barbera cartoons. She sees so much of it, that she just wants it to stop, both for her sanity and for the world. So it gets to the point that she would even impregnate herself with her lover's son's spawn, betray her friends, kill thousands of people, and even be comatose to do an act that, in her mind, was for the greater good. Hey, it'd be understandable, right? It wouldn't be a side of Cordelia we'd want to see, sure, but I think it would add to the drama.

But, another part of me, who always wanted someone to write a storyline where a character was possessed by a demon or something, and it wasn't revealed to the audience either until it was revealed to the main characters, or it was revealed halfway through the damage.
 
A while back, I unshelved the DVD's after about 3 years of not watching either show. I finished rewatching BtVS some time ago, and I've been rewatching Angel - and just finished Season 4. Just like some episodes/seasons of Buffy, my perspective has changed a bit after watching it with fresh eyes. I actually forgot how many good episodes Season 4 had. I never had an issue with Connor, and like many, the Connor/Cordy storyline wasn't exactly my favorite - but it was necessary to take the season where it needed to go. So, yes I do think this season was good.
 
i think all the angel seasons were amazing but season 4 had to be my favorite. the story was fast pace, lots of good epes, angelus and faint make their return, the beast jasmin and angelus were some of the best villains. i think the only thing that bothers me about this season is the real cordy wasnt there and i felt like we lost cordy at the end of season 3, however besides that this season was amazing.
 
I would say this ranks as one my fav Angel seasons .. quite a few good episodes, especially the one's involving Faith and Angelus. Didnt really like the Cordy/Conner storyline though.
 
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