Watching Buffy but not watching Angel why ???

Tome said:
I had the same hesitancy to watch Angel back then because I wasn't particularly attached to the character of Angel in BtVS.

However, it's pretty simple for me after all these years. Angel is just more Buffyverse and I will never understand people who love Buffy but refuse to watch Angel. It's the same humor, the same type of snappy, witty dialogue, a lot of the same characters, more world building, etc. The quality of the show is sometimes better than BtVS, sometimes worse.

There's really no excuse not to watch Angel.
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You make a good point; it's the same 'universe', writers from BTVS. Tonally it's a bit different, but nothing overly dramatic.

I think as others have said, they weren't drawn to the character of Angel. And then to watch him as lead was the biggest turnoff for them, I get it.

Anyone with the perception that Angel was 'boring' on BTVS likely assumed it would be the same over on his own series, so I can understand why some fans would be hesitant to give the series a try.
 
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hoponlilmama said:
You make a good point; it's the same 'universe', writers from BTVS. Tonally it's a bit different, but nothing overly dramatic.

I think as others have said, they weren't drawn to the character of Angel. And then to watch him as lead was the biggest turnoff for them, I get it.

Anyone with the perception that Angel was 'boring' on BTVS likely assumed it would be the same over on his own series, so I can understand why some fans would be hesitant to give the series a try.
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The show is so much more than Angel, though, and Angel himself is more complex and endearing.
 
hoponlilmama said:
You make a good point; it's the same 'universe', writers from BTVS. Tonally it's a bit different, but nothing overly dramatic.

I think as others have said, they weren't drawn to the character of Angel. And then to watch him as lead was the biggest turnoff for them, I get it.

Anyone with the perception that Angel was 'boring' on BTVS likely assumed it would be the same over on his own series, so I can understand why some fans would be hesitant to give the series a try.
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Angel is a different character, thanks largely to Tim Minear.
Sonmambullist is the first real episode to look at him as a character.
Thankfully Joss was smart enough to go with Tim view.

What I also liked about Tim was his lack of Ego. He admitted he had no experience in writing Buffy for Sanctuary and said so, so Joss wrote the Buffy scenes in that episode
 
Tome said:
The show is so much more than Angel, though, and Angel himself is more complex and endearing.
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Agree with you and @Btvs fan.
I'm merely trying to see it from the perspective of a BTVS fan who might not want to watch AtS.

I personally love AtS, as much as BTVS, and think it had the better series finale.
 
NotASlayer said:
Spike was one of the best villains I have ever seen in season 2
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Spike and Dru were such epic villians! Long after BtVS had stopped airing, there were a handful of moments or scenes that stuck with me from the show, and Spike's entrance was one of those moments. I can still remember exactly how I felt when he stepped out of that car, blonde hair, vamp face with a cig, that flowing trench coat, and the music...so fitting. That remains one of my top five villian introductions of all time still to this day.

Taake said:
Now I am just dying to know what show this is and what character!? Lol. Tell us!
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Oh boy, I try not to rag on characters too much because I know someone, somewhere, probably loves the character, but it's Kiera Cameron from the series Continuum. Gosh that is an insufferable character for me.
 
BaskingINBangel said:
Spike and Dru were such epic villians! Long after BtVS had stopped airing, there were a handful of moments or scenes that stuck with me from the show, and Spike's entrance was one of those moments. I can still remember exactly how I felt when he stepped out of that car, blonde hair, vamp face with a cig, that flowing trench coat, and the music...so fitting. That remains one of my top five villian introductions of all time still to this day.


Oh boy, I try not to rag on characters too much because I know someone, somewhere, probably loves the character, but it's Kiera Cameron from the series Continuum. Gosh that is an insufferable character for me.
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I actually thought Dru was pretty pointless in S2. She either hung on the Arm of Spike or Angel in S2 and that was it.

She was better on Angel. Her and the shovel in Reunion was great
 
Uh, didn't she kill Kendra?
Also she had super-useful visions.
Also she helped create the dynamic 'dark love triangle' between Spike and Angelus, mirroring the themes of the season that pushed the climax in the direction that it did.

She wasn't pointless, she was entirely pointy!
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
If she didn't sense danger, Jenny would be alive & Angel might be ensouled sooner without hurting B so much.
BaskingINBangel said:
Spike and Dru were such epic villians! Long after BtVS had stopped airing, there were a handful of moments or scenes that stuck with me from the show, and Spike's entrance was one of those moments. I can still remember exactly how I felt when he stepped out of that car, blonde hair, vamp face with a cig, that flowing trench coat, and the music...so fitting. That remains one of my top five villian introductions of all time still to this day.
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There were so many great moments from Spike in season two! Starting to apologise to the Annointed One, then just deciding "Sod this" and up and killing him. Or getting up out of the wheelchair he had been in for so long and kicking it, showing he had been faking it! The list goes on.

BaskingINBangel said:
Oh boy, I try not to rag on characters too much because I know someone, somewhere, probably loves the character, but it's Kiera Cameron from the series Continuum. Gosh that is an insufferable character for me.
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I had a feeling it was her. I wouldn't say I like her as much as appreciate the plot related to her. Spoilers for the series below.

It started off with Kiera and the series seeming so cleanly cut. She's the heroic cop heading back into the past to stop the Liber8 terrorists who have just murdered a bunch of people. Then you gradually start to realise there are a lot more shades of grey to the situation. Kiera may be a cop, but she's one supporting a fascistic regime, and Liber8 may have killed people, and some of them are definitely nasty, but they had much more of a point than it initially seemed, something that Kiera slowly starts to realise. The series is more shades of grey than it initially seemed than a straightforward good guys/bad guys situation.
 
thetopher said:
Uh, didn't she kill Kendra?
Also she had super-useful visions.
Also she helped create the dynamic 'dark love triangle' between Spike and Angelus, mirroring the themes of the season that pushed the climax in the direction that it did.

She wasn't pointless, she was entirely pointy!
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Those were her more of a plot device than being an actual character herself
 
Btvs fan said:
That's a low bar as Chosen is awful 😄
But I agree 👍
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Ouch. Way harsh, Tai! 😉
It's good, just littered with problems.
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Btvs fan said:
I actually thought Dru was pretty pointless in S2. She either hung on the Arm of Spike or Angel in S2 and that was it.

She was better on Angel. Her and the shovel in Reunion was great
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I sometimes wonder what happened to Dru. Is she still looking for poor Miss Edith? She left her on the train in Sunnydale! 🤣
 
hoponlilmama said:
Ouch. Way harsh, Tai! 😉
It's good, just littered with problems.
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I sometimes wonder what happened to Dru. Is she still looking for poor Miss Edith? She left her on the train in Sunnydale! 🤣
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The Crush ending was pretty bad too. Fury knew he did a crap ending, he just didn't care
 
Btvs fan said:
Those were her more of a plot device than being an actual character herself
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Well firstly that's a different thing from being pointless. A plot device character pushes the plot.
Secondly it's wild to see somebody state that Drusilla wasn't even a character. Of course she's a character, she has backstory and personality and a whole distinct aesthetic; she is consistent in her actions throughout the season. What denotes a character to you?
 
hoponlilmama said:
The ending should've been Spike being forced to leave Sunnydale, or Buffy opening her front door, and staking him
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I think running him out of town was Fury choice. At the time he was openly saying he thought Spike should be the villain on Angel. But it wasn't just that, how wrote both Dru and Harmony out of the episode with Buffy just standing and staring was dumb
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thetopher said:
Well firstly that's a different thing from being pointless. A plot device character pushes the plot.
Secondly it's wild to see somebody state that Drusilla wasn't even a character. Of course she's a character, she has backstory and personality and a whole distinct aesthetic; she is consistent in her actions throughout the season. What denotes a character to you?
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Yeah but she had no agency of her own, it was all just how it informed Spike or Angel and nothing more.
Despite being a friend of Joss (she never had to audition for the role) it's significant that even on Ats that was basically her role (in relation to Darla)
 
Btvs fan said:
Yeah but she had no agency of her own, it was all just how it informed Spike or Angel and nothing more.
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For the first half of the season? Sure, I guess, she has little agency but she is still a character and informs the motivations of Spike and the history of Angelus- so not pointless- but from Surprise/Innocence she is a significant presence in several episodes, like Spike was in the first half. Drusilla is the one who warns of Jenny Calendar's plans, gives Angelus the means to end the world, gets Giles to betray the secret to Acathla, kills Kendra...
That's all akin to Spike in the first half, who has 'no agency' when he's in a wheelchair anyways, but still maintains a character with motives of his own, etc.
 
Btvs fan said:
Yeah but she had no agency of her own, it was all just how it informed Spike or Angel and nothing more.
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I didn't see it this way at all. She's a character who works primarily in the background, sure, but I always got the impression that she was contributing to the tension between Spike and Angelus in season 2 pretty purposefully. She often seems like she has no agency, but that's not necessarily always the case. And she's also a mirror for Buffy. Not all characters need to be doing a lot to be relevant; Drusilla is important to the themes of the season, and she has her own unique characterization as well. Her lack of major motivations outside of Spike and Angel during this season doesn't necessarily mean she's not a well-rounded character.
 
Btvs fan said:
@NoShip @silvermoon Both you and others have made me curious. You watched Buffy but refused to watch Angel, can I ask why ? What put you off
Did you try Season 5 of Angel as they brought Spike over ?

I would argue that the Crossover episodes with Faith and Buffy like 5by5 and Sanctuary as well as the Fool For Love and Darla episode crossovers are some of the best the show ever did And would ask if you'd consider giving those a 1 time watch, if only for the review on here
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If you love BtVS, I can't imagine not watching Angel too. For me, it worked out perfectly because I started watching with 'The Freshman' when it aired in '99 and 'City Of' was on right after at 9pm so Angels pilot was my introduction to the characters of Angel, Doyle, Cordelia...and eventually Wesley. I was intrigued how both of these shows existed in the same universe, and there was three prior seasons that I had to catch up on. Angel is also much more interesting on his own show- on BtVS, it's like he's ALL about Buffy. Cordelia and Wesley grow a lot from their Buffy days too. Plus, Angels series has A LOT more content of some of the best villains from BtVS (Spike, Faith, Darla, Drusilla, Harmony) and of course amazing new characters like Fred, Gunn, Lorne & Lilah! Angel has a lot of interesting themes along with great episodes and arcs throughout the seasons!
 
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