Wesley vs. Giles

[Hale Caesar]

Just one question: What do Giles' personal life achievements have to do with character developement? I mean, a character can be a loser with no friends or romances for the entire series, but still have other storylines that forwarding his character.

He didn't have any storylines that forwarded his character. This is what i'm saying. He became less important to the show as time went on, when he wasn't protecting Buffy he didn't do anything else important.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

He didn't have any storylines that forwarded his character. This is what i'm saying. He became less important to the show as time went on, when he wasn't protecting Buffy he didn't do anything else important.

That wasn't my question though (I think I may have misleaded you, my bad) I agree that his storylines were almost gone, that's why I agree that he went downhill after he left. My question was what do someone's personal achievemnts (in the character's life itself, not the story of it) have to do with his developement? I will repeat my example: there could be a character of a loser, and he keeps being a loser, and never gets a girlfriend, never gets friends or a job, but he could have many storylines that will develop his character, even if he doesn't make it well in life. He could still progress, either for better or worse. That's a character development, not what the character itself does in life, it's about the changes that happen to them. My question had nothing to do with Giles (although it did seem like it from my phrasing, sorry). Yes, he didn't have many things in life, and yes his storyliines became unimportant and pretty much unvisible. But that doesn't have anything to do with his character development. He could still have the same things and do the same things and even have no serious storyline, but inside him he will change. His life hasn't changed much, but he did.

But again, I was asking in general about your character development take, which as you said before, you didn't exactly understand what character development was.

 

[Hale Caesar]

That wasn't my question though (I think I may have misleaded you, my bad) I agree that his storylines were almost gone, that's why I agree that he went downhill after he left. My question was what do someone's personal achievemnts (in the character's life itself, not the story of it) have to do with his developement? I will repeat my example: there could be a character of a loser, and he keeps being a loser, and never gets a girlfriend, never gets friends or a job, but he could have many storylines that will develop his character, even if he doesn't make it well in life. He could still progress, either for better or worse. That's a character development, not what the character itself does in life, it's about the changes that happen to them. My question had nothing to do with Giles (although it did seem like it from my phrasing, sorry). Yes, he didn't have many things in life, and yes his storyliines became unimportant and pretty much unvisible. But that doesn't have anything to do with his character development. He could still have the same things and do the same things and even have no serious storyline, but inside him he will change. His life hasn't changed much, but he did.

But again, I was asking in general about your character development take, which as you said before, you didn't exactly understand what character development was.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree for the most part. Characters personal lives don't affect need to affect their development. But I would say the a majority of the time they do, any time a good character makes some development it (usually) ties back into their personal lives through friends, family, job, etc. An example would be Xander's maturity and acceptance of himself, this came from watching his friends go to school while he was unemployed, it wasn't until he finally decided to work with the skills he had and get some support from his friends that he became a successful carpenter.

And that's were Gile's falters. At the end of the show he fails to have any real connections. Sure, he can develop by himself, but that is just a really boring and poorly written character, which is, IMO, one of the reasons I feel Giles isn't anything special.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I see where you're coming from, and I agree for the most part. Characters personal lives don't affect need to affect their development. But I would say the a majority of the time they do, any time a good character makes some development it (usually) ties back into their personal lives through friends, family, job, etc. An example would be Xander's maturity and acceptance of himself, this came from watching his friends go to school while he was unemployed, it wasn't until he finally decided to work with the skills he had and get some support from his friends that he became a successful carpenter.

And that's were Gile's falters. At the end of the show he fails to have any real connections. Sure, he can develop by himself, but that is just a really boring and poorly written character, which is, IMO, one of the reasons I feel Giles isn't anything special.

It sometimes does, sure. But I'm trying to show you that it's not the only element that will or will not give a character development, and that there can be situations where this doesn't really affect the development.

I already agreed that Giles at the end of the show lost his storyline and the character was ruined. But that doesn't mean he hasn't changed or there was no character development.
Also, Wesley was on Buffy just for a few episodes, and then he moved to Ats, changed, and kept this personality throughout the whole show. Giles only changed for the bad by the end of the show. He used to be entertaining throghout most of the show (his quotes thread proves me that). That doesn't mean he's my favorite on Buffy or on my top list, but I liked him more than Wesley. Just to say this again, even though I thought Wesley of Buffy was an ass, I thought he was a much better and original character than on BtVS. I agree that he's a better person on Ats, but that doesn't make him interesting to me.

 

[RipperGilesFan]

It's fairly amusing how people can't seem to accept that others have different, and valid opinions...

Anyhoo...I preferred Giles, I just consider him to be the original and the best 🙂

Very strongly in this thread. That's why I steered clear of it for the most part reading through it. Anyways: Giles will always get my vote. Simply because I happen to think he's made of awesomeness 😀 Wes, I just never managed to 'get into' for some reason.

 

[Mr Giles]

So its agreed Giles is better?

 

[Hale Caesar]

It sometimes does, sure. But I'm trying to show you that it's not the only element that will or will not give a character development, and that there can be situations where this doesn't really affect the development.

I already agreed that Giles at the end of the show lost his storyline and the character was ruined. But that doesn't mean he hasn't changed or there was no character development.
Also, Wesley was on Buffy just for a few episodes, and then he moved to Ats, changed, and kept this personality throughout the whole show. Giles only changed for the bad by the end of the show. He used to be entertaining throghout most of the show (his quotes thread proves me that). That doesn't mean he's my favorite on Buffy or on my top list, but I liked him more than Wesley. Just to say this again, even though I thought Wesley of Buffy was an ass, I thought he was a much better and original character than on BtVS. I agree that he's a better person on Ats, but that doesn't make him interesting to me.

Yeah, I can understand why people like Giles, he's a good character. So, at the risk of continuing this thread anymore i'll just respect the fact that some people really like Giles and others (like myself) just think he's "okay"

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Yeah, I can understand why people like Giles, he's a good character. So, at the risk of continuing this thread anymore i'll just respect the fact that some people really like Giles and others (like myself) just think he's "okay"

I do actually think he's just "okay". Compared to other characters on the show. Just for the record 🙂