Wesley vs. Giles

Which Character do you like more?

  • Wesley

    Votes: 26 40.6%
  • Giles

    Votes: 29 45.3%
  • I can't decide!

    Votes: 9 14.1%

  • Total voters
    64

Hale Caesar

Sunnydale Nerd
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I know this thread is going to get ugly 😛

Who did you like more and why? The Rogue Demon Hunter turned badass, or the ex-Watcher with a dark side? Both started as Watchers, and served similar roles (research and later fighters) on their respective shows

I'm going to vote Wesley for this one. I think both characters are fantastic but I found Giles to be inconsistent, he didn't serve any real purpose in later seasons (except season 5) when talking about the big story arc. However he did have individual moments where he was amazing (Ben and Theory testing!)

Wesley is almost the opposite form Giles. Giles started very developed, and became less important to his show. Wesley was very undeveloped in the beginning, and later became more significant to his show. What makes me appreciate Wesley is his character development, and the fact that he managed to stay significant to his show in every season he was in. Both great characters, but the Rogue Demon Hunter gets my vote
 
This question nearly blew my head off! I love G/J of couse, but by themselves, I guess I'll go with Wes. I just love him! Soooooooooooo hard!
 
Wes, definitely.

Giles was awesome the first five seasons, but in the final two seasons the writers didn't seem to know what to do with him. It looked to me like they had him do random things for the sake of creating drama and tension with Buffy. I lost a lot of love for Giles that the comics have actually restored.

Wesley, despite everything, was never written that inconsistent. His evolution on the show was natural. He was never overused; when the writers didn't have much for him to do they limited his screentime instead of having him bounce around all over the place. His character development is the best character work Joss has ever done, in my opinion.
 
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dexeded
[No message]
Giles by far, but maybe I can't quite articulate why. I love both of them. But to me, Giles has way more depth and texture as a character.

They are both unbelievably courageous, kind, loyal, and devoted to the mission. And VERY good looking. 🙂 With good senses of humor. And an endearing bumbling manner at times. And an ability to be bad-ass.

Both of them looked endearingly foolish at times - Wesley in the early seasons of AtS and Giles when (for example) he was practicing his pickup lines to an empty chair, and being caught doing a solo swordfight in the library.

It really can't come down to which one is a better man -- they're both outstanding men, and for almost exactly the same reasons.

So it has to come down to which one has more depth and texture as a character.

We know that Giles's father disappointed him by telling him he had to be a watcher rather than a grocer or a fighter pilot; and we know that Wesley's father emotionally abused him terribly -- but other than that, we know nothing of Wesley's past, while we know quite a bit more of Giles' past and it plays a role in the show.

We've seen Giles interact with other faculty, with Scoobie friends and family, with Spike, with other Watchers (Gwendolyn Price and Wesley), with the Council, with customers at the Magic Shop, and with authorities (many times). Wesley's interaction with people other than the main characters was much more limited, so we didn't get that kind of glimpse into his character.

They were both tortured, but Giles's character was allowed to react in a defiant fashion ("in a tutu ... pillock"), which gave his character more depth.

They both lost loved ones to murder, but Giles' reaction was much more dramatic.

The entire foundation of Giles's role in the BtVS series was a beautiful, well-developed father-daughter relationship with his Slayer. Wesley had nothing to compare to that.

As part of this relationship, Giles helped Buffy through the death of her mother, someone he had had a brief physical, and then a friendly, relationship with. We saw no parallel for Wesley.

Giles experienced the death of his Slayer, and we saw the emotional fall out from that, including the bittersweet scene where he is treating robo-Buffy as if she were the real Buffy -- and the epic scene where he is reunited with the newly-revived Buffy.

We got to see Giles sing. 🙂 (And not bad karaoke.)

We got many intimate glimpses of Giles's home, and his jobs other than Watcher (librarian, magic shop owner), while the few glimpses we got of Wesley's home were sterile and unrevealing, and he had no other job.

We got to see Giles drunk twice, and hungover once. We got to see Giles as a demon.

Perhaps one of the most interesting distinctions is we got to see what presumably normal character (i.e., not a villain or demon) Giles hated -- Professor Walsh.

And here's another interesting, two-part, difference. Giles made more mistakes (which made him more human and added to the texture of his character), and acknowledged when he made mistakes, which Wesley did not. Giles apologized to Buffy for his role in the Cruciamentium. Giles acknowledged his error in "Doomed," when he had the Word of Valios and didn't realize it. Giles (not in so many words) apologized for his role in the misunderstanding of The Yoko Factor. He came around in the finale of season 1 when he decided he would face the Master, and in the episode where he acknowledged he was driving Buffy too hard. He apologized in Grave for leaving Buffy. Wesley never acknowledged that he should have talked to Angel and the others about the prophecy instead of kidnapping Connor.

Giles killed a human being for the good of the mission. (Wesley chained a woman in his closet, but that's not quite as bad-ass.) Giles told his daughter-figure to kill her sister.

Giles had a fight practically to the death with someone he had clearly loved (Willow).

We got to see Giles experience angst about his aging, and his relationship to the Scoobies, and about his not having a job ("Alfred had a job.").

Giles went through the angst of deciding to leave Buffy behind in season 6.

Giles had better sarcasm.

In a way, this is really just a poll about which character was better or more deeply written. The argument that Giles was irrelevant after season 5 is just an offshoot of the fact that Anthony Stewart Head wanted to return to England to be with his growing daughters, not a reflection on the Giles character. Otherwise the characters are very similar in their traits. But the fact is that Giles was better written, and more deeply written, throughout the series.

If I had to say which one I'd rather have a beer with, though, it would probably be Wesley. 🙂
 
TheAnnointedOne
TheAnnointedOne
Amazing post!!!!!
wickedtiger86
wickedtiger86
Awesome post!
R
RipperGilesFan
no way I could do better than this. Awesome post !
I chose Wesley, but only because of what they did to Giles in season 6 and 7. If it were just the first five seasons, Giles all the way...
 
Giles by far. Though, to be fair, I haven't rewatched Angel recently. Giles is my favourite character in Buffy and Wes is my favourite character in Angel, but it just has to be Giles. I second everything patriot1123 said!

He was an amazing character. I may be slightly influenced by the fact that Giles was such a great father figure. That would be my daddy issues rearing their ugly head. But that doesn't change the fact that I find his relationship with Buffy awesome. And I do find him funnier and more endearing.
 
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patriot1123
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For me, it is Giles all the way! I just love his character! I agree with everyone when they say his earlier appearances on S1-5 are better than the final two seasons, but his character is just so brilliant in those first 5 that, for me, it warrants the vote in Giles's favour! He had classic moments, great lines and his relationship with Buffy is so touching! I am the same as [MENTION=11476]Mithol[/MENTION] in that I haven't rewatched AtS recently and I am in the middle of a complete rewatch of Buffy so classic Giles is more fresh with me at the moment. I loved Wesley in S3 of BtVS and watching his development in AtS but for me it is always Giles.


[MENTION=11161]patriot1123[/MENTION], I loved that you mentioned the moment when Giles was caught doing a solo sword fight - 'Will you be ready if a vampire's behind you?!' The way he says this, the build up to it and his subsequent reaction just so neatly epitomises why I love this character! CLASSIC!!!!!

🙂
 
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patriot1123
[No message]
T
This Year's Girl
YES. I agree about everything you said about Giles.
Wesley. I just love his character arc. Any book for writers on character development should have a chapter devoted to Wesley.
 
By the end of Season 5, my respect for Giles was beginning to wane. By the time Season 7 came along, I didn't think that it could get much lower and then, damned if he didn't make things even worse by hia attitude toward Spike. Understand, I'm not saying that as a Spuffy shipper, but more as a man who simply cannot abide hypocrites in any form. After all of Giles' preaching about forgiveness and giving second chances, he becomes a willing partner in an attempt to murder someone who has who has achieved the single most miraculous feat in the supernatural world, who risked his life and sanity in order to please and make amends to the woman he loved, a man who, to his own personal knowledge has fought side by side with the Scoobies, and has undoubtedly saved all of their lives at least, if not multiple times, and he does it on the advice of another man who he has known only a few weeks. This is most certainly NOT the action of the mah who Giles gives only lip service to being.

Wes has grown and matured from what could only be described as mild comedy relief into a proficient, brave, and capable, one who, most importantly, is unquestionably loyal and supportive of his friends.

Besides which, us rogue demon hunters have to stick together. There just aren't that many of us left to carry on the good fight.
 
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dexeded
[No message]
brinkster130
brinkster130
ITA about Giles.
Wesley. I just love his character arc. Any book for writers on character development should have a chapter devoted to Wesley.

As much as I love Wesley, I must disagree with this. Actually, if I think intellectually about it, I find Wesley's character development to be completely unbelievable. It's just not credible that someone turns from a bumbling, clueless, weak (both physically and in the force of his personality) person, as Wesley was in BtVS, to the heroic person Wesley became - the opposite in every respect to what he had been. Again, I'm totally glad they did that with Wesley and I love Wesley. But the character development wasn't realistic.
 
Actually, if I think intellectually about it, I find Wesley's character development to be completely unbelievable. It's just not credible that someone turns from a bumbling, clueless, weak (both physically and in the force of his personality) person, as Wesley was in BtVS, to the heroic person Wesley became - the opposite in every respect to what he had been. Again, I'm totally glad they did that with Wesley and I love Wesley. But the character development wasn't realistic.

It just goes to show what the love of a bad, beautiful lady lawyer can do for a man. Wes didn't as much BECOME the heroic character as that character had always been there, but had been suppressed for years by a dominating father and a society (the Watchers) that squelched most if not all individuality in its junior members. Wesley was what he was in Sunnydale because that is what the mold that the Watchers' Council had forced him into. The longer he stayed away from the Council and its influence, the more the REAL Wes emerged.
 
K
kittenpoker
I love that!!!!
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patriot1123
That's plausible - I like it.
Tome
Tome
YOU got it right, mistah!
I honestly cannot pick. I love them both! But I love this thread cause it lets me read lots of really cool wesley and giles moments!!! So, yay!!!
 
I'm amazed that Wesley is winning. I'm glad though, he deserves it, Wesley is easily one of the best Buffyverse characters

From what I've been reading Giles loses the vote because the writers screwed him in seasons 6 and 7. And it's understandable, he sucked in those, except for his one awesome "Theory testing" moment
 
This is definitely a really tough choice for me. Giles is my fav on BtVS along with Buffy. He's badass, touching, funny, and such a loveable character. 🙂 Wesley on the other hand is probably the character with the best development on both shows(and one of the best on tv period). I feel so much for him in the last few seasons of Angel, and personally I thought he was really funny in BtVS s3. What is the decisive factor for me here is that Giles in S6 and S7 is not even close to the character from the previous seasons. He lost me in those.

If it was Giles S1-S5 against Wes, I'd probably go with Giles, but since it's not, Wesley is my pick.
 
I dunno, toughy, both great characters, Giles just edges it though. I prefered geek Wes from Buffy to s2 of Angel, i felt his character was more natural, and also quite funny.
But i wasnt really into 'im tough with a gun' Wes in the later seasons.
To me Wes wasnt as important to Ats, as Doyle would have more than filled the gap.
But Giles on Btvs was irreplacable.
 
That's easy for me. Giles! I don't relate to the new Wesley. I loved his character when he was on Buffy. Yes, we was an ass, but he was a much more interesting and original character. He cracked me up every time. I didn't really like the man he was, but as a character I felt that he was a much better one. The new Wesley, the Wesley from Angel, even though hotter, I don't let that fact confuse me, he's too serious. He started out as the old Wesley, but it felt to me like they ruined him from there. He's just another character, nothing special at all. He bores me.
Now Giles, even though I kinda hated him in season 7, he was a unique elder. He's not only hot, he's a bad ass. He says what's on his mind, which is always funny. He has many levels. His character can change without becoming boring.
 
M
Mr Giles
exactly
Giles for me. Not only does he have the yum factor (I very rarely find guys attractive, but ASH is the only male in the 'verse cast who definitely makes me think twice (sw)), but his character simply does more for me.

Much as I love Wesley 2.0 later on on AtS, that legacy of silly wussiness from BtVS is hard to stop lingering as a memory... and that personality upgrade came much more as a harsh break; the Ripper backstory for Giles was much better integrated IMO.
 
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