What do you think about season 6?

[Connor Holtz]

I must say kudus to Icarium and TheVoid68 for well said, thought out posts that illustrate my exact thoughts! 😀

Only thing I have to add is, Dawn didn't summon Sweet. She clearly swipes the amulet/talisman WAY after Sweet arrives. Not to mention Xander shows a little, not much but a little remorse for his responsibly there later in season 6 when he says something to the effect of --

XANDER
'Cause you know, sometimes you do
something that seems like a good idea
at the time, like, say, invoke the
power of a musical amulet. And then
it turns out, you know. Not so much.​

 

[zobothehobo]

Of course Buffy didn't try very hard. She was still in a depressive state and Dawn recognized that. She appreciated the effort Buffy was making (as she said), but Buffy knew she could do better. Buffy felt guilty over that.

EXACTLY! And that guilt lead to more depression... vicious cycle. Willow almost ending the world broke the cycle because instead of Buffy being depressed, doing things to feel better or not as good as she would if she wasn't depressed, and then getting depressed about that... Everything turned out ok. In that moment, Buffy realized the world didn't suck. She changed what she was fighting for... instead of fighting for the world to not end because she had to, she was doing it because she wanted to. But before the apocalypse of season 6, she was slaying because she had to and in a vicious cycle.

 

[StarSlayer]

EXACTLY! And that guilt lead to more depression... vicious cycle. Willow almost ending the world broke the cycle because instead of Buffy being depressed, doing things to feel better or not as good as she would if she wasn't depressed, and then getting depressed about that... Everything turned out ok. In that moment, Buffy realized the world didn't suck. She changed what she was fighting for... instead of fighting for the world to not end because she had to, she was doing it because she wanted to. But before the apocalypse of season 6, she was slaying because she had to and in a vicious cycle.

Oh my gosh, exactly! And that totally fits her role in s7, how she wanted to bring all the potentials together to fight against The First, teach them everything she knows, etc. More than ever, she accepted her role as the slayer in s7 because she wanted to.

 

[Icarium]

That's in theory. Only in reality, what was shown on screen in S7 was Buffy ignoring Dawn (and everybody else) once more, only with more Spike this time.

 

[TheVoid68]

As I've stated, depression varies by the person. Sometimes, it's not so easy just to snap out of it. So, since we're all sharing, here's my personal story. I became very depressed and developed anxiety about 7 years ago. I developed massive panic attacks, where it felt like I was having a heart-attack. I tried to tough it out on my own, snap out of it if you will, but I couldn't. Something held me back and I really lost my motivation to do things. I didn't care anymore and just felt blah. So, I started taking anti-depressants, which helped ease my panic attacks. It took a couple months, but they eventually stopped. I stayed on them for about 5 years, got off them for a year, got back on them when my panic attacks came back, and am now gradually getting off them again. For some people, depression can last for a couple months or years. It's great that you were able to get out of your depressive state in the way you did (and I mean that in all sincerity) but that's not always the same for others.

You're right. I was just explaining the reasons why Buffy's depression didn't work for me.

So it seems that the people here who like Buffy's depression storyline consist largely of those who have been in a similar mental state. Seems to me that good television shouldn't require that - you shouldn't have to have experienced it to relate to it.

 

[StarSlayer]

But the Doublemeat job is also boring. And unlike the Magic Box job, it's demeaning, low-paid, doesn't allow for impromptu Slaying breaks when need be or regular visits from Dawn or Buffy's friends.

As Buffy said at the end of that episode, she didn't want to wait to find another job and go through the training again. She wanted to work, even if it meant at a job she didn't particularly love. She found the Doubemeat Palace job a bit more tolerable than her job at the Magic Box.

I meant how come no one tells Buffy "Hey, wouldn't it be much more convenient to work with Anya than in the Doublemeat". I didn't mean to suggest they would want her to flip burgers. Of course, if Buffy did work in the Magic Box we wouldn't have had Spike coming and suggesting he provide money for Buffy and there's no way the writers were going to lose that marvel of a scene...[/sarcasm]

After Buffy quit, I don't know if any of them wanted to suggest that. Buffy seemed to make it clear that she hated working there. Maybe at the same time, she just didn't want to be around Giles and Anya, specifically people who always kept asking her if she was okay. That was something that annoyed Buffy, as she mentioned in "Flooded." Plus, I really like that scene between Buffy and Spike because Spike was able to recognize how unhappy Buffy was working there, and Buffy knew Spike was right. You saw the sincerity in his face, which made it hard for Buffy to say she couldn't leave.

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

So it seems that the people here who like Buffy's depression storyline consist largely of those who have been in a similar mental state. Seems to me that good television shouldn't require that - you shouldn't have to have experienced it to relate to it.

I agree that it's not required for one to experience what the characters are also experiencing (or something similar) for good TV, but IMO it helps. For an audience to connect with the characters on a deeper level is what makes some of us really love a character and understand what they're going through because we've been there or have been in a similar situation. Even if one hasn't personally experienced what the characters are experiencing, I would hope that they could still understand the character's state of mind based on what we see and hear from the story.

 

[TheVoid68]

I agree that it's not required for one to experience what the characters are also experiencing (or something similar) for good TV, but IMO it helps. For an audience to connect with the characters on a deeper level is what makes some of us really love a character and understand what they're going through because we've been there or have been in a similar situation. Even if one hasn't personally experienced what the characters are experiencing, I would hope that they could still understand the character's state of mind based on what we see and hear from the story.

Very true. And this is true for several of my favourite characters... like Faith - I haven't had anything like the life Faith has, yet I sympathise with her more than any other character. I think that being able to relate to a character like that without any frame of reference in your own life is a sign of good writing - it shows that it is the writing itself affecting us deeply, and not just the writing reminding us of our own experiences, which affect us deeply.

 

[StarSlayer]

Very true. And this is true for several of my favourite characters... like Faith - I haven't had anything like the life Faith has, yet I sympathise with her more than any other character. I think that being able to relate to a character like that without any frame of reference in your own life is a sign of good writing - it shows that it is the writing itself affecting us deeply, and not just the writing reminding us of our own experiences, which affect us deeply.

Agreed. Oh my gosh, we agreed on something, lol! 😀 That's why Spike is also one of my favorite characters. I sympathize with him, even though I don't relate to him on a personal level (and I should hope I don't, lol).

 

[Icarium]

She found the Doubemeat Palace job a bit more tolerable than her job at the Magic Box.

Well, then Buffy is a masochist. Hey, this explains the boinking Spike thing too! I think I am on to something.

Plus, I really like that scene between Buffy and Spike because Spike was able to recognize how unhappy Buffy was working there, and Buffy knew Spike was right.

The thing is anyone who isn't braindead should have easily recognized Buffy's unhappiness. In When She Was Bad for instance it takes Willow and Xander less than a day to figure out there is something wrong with Buffy. The fact that only Spike could do it this time around tells me the writers were screwing the characterization of the rest of the cast to make Spike look better in comparison.

 

[StarSlayer]

Well, then Buffy is a masochist. Hey, this explains the boinking Spike thing too! I think I am on to something.

I'm not even going to go there.

The thing is anyone who isn't braindead should have easily recognized Buffy's unhappiness. In When She Was Bad for instance it takes Willow and Xander less than a day to figure out there is something wrong with Buffy. The fact that only Spike could do it this time around tells me the writers were screwing the characterization of the rest of the cast to make Spike look better in comparison.

Again, it's different circumstances. Willow didn't recognize that Buffy was unhappy at the Doublemeat Palace because she was still recovering from her break-up with Tara and using magic. I wouldn't call Willow braindead for not recognizing Buffy's unhappiness when she had to concentrate on her own at that time. And Xander and Anya had their wedding plans on their minds.

 

[Icarium]

Again, it's different circumstances. Willow didn't recognize that Buffy was unhappy at the Doublemeat Palace because she was still recovering from her break-up with Tara and using magic. I wouldn't call Willow braindead for not recognizing Buffy's unhappiness when she had to concentrate on her own at that time.

Willow can't do both? Even Zombie!Buffy manages to notice things why can't Willow? In The Initiative she is still reeling after the break-up with Oz but still takes interest in Buffy and even tries to set her up with Riley. Plus, it's not as if realizing Buffy is unhappy is some revelation or something - even ignoring the out of heaven thing Buffy is a college drop out forced to work at a burger joint to make ends meet. Of course she is going to be unhappy. I find it wildly implausible for Willow and Xander to not realize that. Heck, Riley's wife noticed it, IIRC, and she didn't even know Buffy.

 

[StarSlayer]

Willow can't do both? Even Zombie!Buffy manages to notice things why can't Willow? In The Initiative she is still reeling after the break-up with Oz but still takes interest in Buffy and even tries to set her up with Riley. Plus, it's not as if realizing Buffy is unhappy is some revelation or something - even ignoring the out of heaven thing Buffy is a college drop out forced to work at a burger joint to make ends meet. Of course she is going to be unhappy. I find it wildly implausible for Willow and Xander to not realize that. Heck, Riley's wife noticed it, IIRC, and she didn't even know Buffy.

Willow wasn't doing that great after her break-up with Oz, and Spike was the one who pointed it out. In "Something Blue," Buffy and Giles thought she was doing better, but Spike said she was "barely hanging on by a thread." He turned out to be right. She felt depressed after Oz got all his stuff, she forgot meetings with Giles, etc. In fact, she wanted Buffy to forget her slayer duties for a while (like, not go and find Spike), so they could hang out. So, it really isn't that far of a stretch that Spike would point out Buffy was unhappy at the Doublemeat Palace while the others didn't.

Actually, now that I'm thinking more about it, Xander, Willow, Anya, and Dawn came to the Doublemeat Palace to support her. I think they recognized that although Buffy didn't want to work there, they knew she needed the money. As her friends, they supported her in her choice.

 

[zobothehobo]

I just want to say, I'm in psych class and we're talking about depression and I can now explain Buffy's behavior in season 6 with her depression in real terms. The fact that her friends didn't help her when they thought they were being helpful is because of Interactional theory. This theory explains the difference between being sad and being majorly depressed is when you're depressed the things that would normally make you feel good actually make you more depressed. It's like going out with your friends should make you feel good. When you're depressed, you go out with your friends and you don't feel happy... you know you should feel happy and you feel more depressed about it. Her sleeping with Spike is self-mutilation. I can't believe I didn't make that parallel before... it's like cutting yourself. She slept with Spike because it was the only way she could prove to herself she was actually there.. she was alive and she could feel SOMETHING which is why people cut themselves.

 

[TheVoid68]

^Which is what I meant when I said she hated being with Spike - she had reasons for doing it, but like self-harmers don't really want to hurt themselves, Buffy didn't really want to be with Spike.

 

[StarSlayer]

^Which is what I meant when I said she hated being with Spike - she had reasons for doing it, but like self-harmers don't really want to hurt themselves, Buffy didn't really want to be with Spike.

If she hated being with Spike, then why did she feel hurt after they broke up and he slept with Anya? She hated how she was using him in order to make herself feel better, feel like she was alive, which is the connection to self-harmers. She used him for her own selfish reasons and she told him that. She didn't hate actually being with him.

 

[zobothehobo]

If she hated being with Spike, then why did she feel hurt after they broke up and he slept with Anya? She hated how she was using him in order to make herself feel better, feel like she was alive, which is the connection to self-harmers. She used him for her own selfish reasons and she told him that. She didn't hate actually being with him.

I think initially she didn't want to be with Spike on principle. I think there was a part of her that fell for him a bit. I think she felt bad about that part of her... but I think it was there. Because she felt bad for it, she didn't want to be with Spike... But just sitting there not doing anything or feeling anything was worse to her than being with Spike. Then after she was with him... that part of her that fell for him opened up a bit and we see it when she sees Spike and Anya together.

 

[StarSlayer]

I think initially she didn't want to be with Spike on principle.

Oh, definitely, as first shown in Crush and then in s6. Like in OMWF, when Spike sings Rest in Peace. "You're scared, ashamed of what you feel."

I think there was a part of her that fell for him a bit. I think she felt bad about that part of her... but I think it was there. Because she felt bad for it, she didn't want to be with Spike...

I think it wasn't so much that she didn't want to be with Spike, but that she knew it was wrong. She's the Slayer and he's a vampire with no soul. As Buffy says in "Dead Things," "He's everything I hate, everything I'm suppose to be against." Yet, she was still drawn to him. Spike also recognized how part of Buffy wanted to be with him, but the other part knew it was wrong. As he sings in Rest in Peace, "And you just love to play the thought that you might misbehave..."

But just sitting there not doing anything or feeling anything was worse to her than being with Spike. Then after she was with him... that part of her that fell for him opened up a bit and we see it when she sees Spike and Anya together.

Exactly. And, in a strange way, I think Buffy did get better when she was with Spike. She started opening up again, even if it was only to him. Along the way, she got to realize that what she was doing (using him) was wrong and she stopped herself.

 

[BananaBuffy]

I am a huge Season Six fan. Maybe it's because some of the first episodes I ever saw were from Season Six and one of the first couples I ever saw was Spuffy. I think things you originally see have a way of sticking with you and you always like them heaps. Like for example, most people like the 1982 version of 'Annie' best whereas I saw the 1999 version first and like that one the best. I think it's just that.

The Trio were funny...sometimes but I did find some of their scenes yawn-worthy and tedius. Sometimes I was just rolling my eyes and thinking 'wtf' there have so been better villians on the show. The Mayor, Glory, Angelus, Spike and Dru. I often found Warren very, very annoying but I like Andrew and Jonathan. I have always liked Jonathan, ever since we first saw in him!

Spuffy! They are my 'ship, as we say. As I say, this may be because he was the first person I ever saw Buffy with and I am attracted to him somehow. I think they are an interesting couple and I do think, in season 7, Buffy does somewhat grow to love him in a way she can't express. They are good together, but you would just have to change a few things to see that. The sex is descructive yet very, very graphic and sexy which I will admitt to sometimes enjoying (yes, call me sick). I do think they have some very sweet and some very funny scenes together. The first scene in Dead Things sticks out in my mind.

Yes, I was upset when Xander left Anya but I could see it coming from the begining of Season Six. It was going to happen. But, Xander-wise, I am a big fan of Xanya. I think she is hilarious and both have been good for each other. I think it's a shame they didn't get married but it is heartbreaking and made for a good episode. And then some things wouldn't have happened, like the whole Spuffy thing coming out and all of that. Buffy realizing that she actually does care about Spike more than she maybe should.

Dark Willow and Tara's dealth aren't my favourite plot points. But I think Dark Willow does make for an interesting villian and it changes her as a person which always HAS to happen with characters in a TV series. I was heartbroken at Tara's death because I have always adored her character more than I can say. She is so sweet and kind and motherly and it was a really unfair way for her to die. Unfair on Willow too as they had just gotten over everything. They had been so sweet for that entire episode. AND FOR DAWN. She was sooo happy and overjoyed at the start of Seeing Red when she saw Willow and Tara. It's just sad.

On another note. I didn't find Dawn annoying, I actually never have.

 

[woogirl]

I'm in the middle of season six. I re-watch that and have some fresh thoughts.
I really adore Spuffy, more than Bangel, like a lot, a lot more. But I really can't understand Buffy's behavior at some points. Like she had sex with Spike all night long, she didn't care about Dawn. Her sxcuse was that she "came back wrong" and she is not the same anymore. But that's only an excuse. I thinki that for all that time she was perfectly normal (I mean, with Spike), she wanted to hang out with him etc. I can understand that. But to choose Spike over Dawn? Even if she wasn't "herself"? Buffy, come on!

 

[wickedtiger86]

Hmm. Season six.

I do really love the season overall. I like to see my heroes fall and then rise back up. It's just a thing I have.

I love seeing all the characters develop in this season. And actually it's helped me to think that Buffy had her extreme lows too. Nice to see that everyone can mess up pretty drastically, and yet can come back from it as a better person.

However, I have serious problems watching the "magic as drug addiction" bits.

Bit of personal info here but one of my parents was/is an addict. So I know what it's actually like and this is just like a shallow imitation. And it really bothers me. I feel like this is a road they could have taken if they'd been on like HBO or something.

Though AH did do a great job with it. Lord do I hate seeing her cry. . .