What if Buffy killed Faith in Graduation Day, Part 1?

[Cordy_Chase]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]

That's why I mentioned the hybrid. The problem is, every demon we see on the show, minus the Mayor, already is a hybrid of human and demonic parts, like slayers, and like slayers demons can be benevolent. So what makes demon a demon? Where's the difference?

I don't see it.

I am sorry but you had made a very wildly inaccurate comparison with Adam. He was man made of psychical body parts from both human and demon. Basically he was a frankenstien, that is nowhere in the galaxy of what a slayer is. Basically by your logic Angel is also a hybrid, a dhampire if you will because he is a vampire with a human aspect, a soul. This is not correct however.
I happen to be a quarter Irish and I am neither physically or culturally Irish. So would you consider me Irish really?

It's DNA that says what you are, unless a slayer can transform into a demonic form than they are not part demon.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=12443]SoulOfAngelus[/MENTION]

He was man made

So are the slayers. Human body, heart and soul of a demon. It's not pretty but Buffy's just as much of a Frankenstein's monster as Adam.

unless a slayer can transform into a demonic form than they are not part demon.

Then I guess they are. Here's Buffy in demonic form:

 

[Yosso]

[MENTION=12443]SoulOfAngelus[/MENTION]


So are the slayers. Human body, heart and soul of a demon. It's not pretty but Buffy's just as much of a Frankenstein's monster as Adam.



Then I guess they are. Here's Buffy in demonic form:

Um, that was a spell. Buffy doesn't have a 'demonic form'. Not sure if you're just pulling my leg here. You have a point about the 'heart and soul of a demon' part, though I wouldn't phrase it in terms as strong as that, but that part of slayers doesn't negate the biological fact that they're human.

Buffy is able to go into a regular hospital and be treated just like anybody else. Cordelia when she gets turned part-demon may not be able to do that. Spike's chip activates when he tries to hurt Buffy. She also has a human mother and a human father, therefore she is human. 🙂

(SoulOfAngelus - you may want to skip this paragraph if you're reading - spoilers) If we believe Buffy's theory about the monks making Dawn 'out of' Buffy and her 'Summers' blood', moulding her into human form then that shows again that Buffy is human.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Isn't that image of when Willow, Tara, Xander and Giles cast the spell to merge their spirits with Buffy to defeat Adam?

So are the slayers. Human body, heart and soul of a demon. It's not pretty but Buffy's just as much of a Frankenstein's monster as Adam.

Wow can you pick something apart to death. What I meant was that Adam was manufactured like a machine, Slayers are born. And conception is not man made as other creatures conceive as well.

[MENTION=12359]Yosso[/MENTION] Thanks for the warning but it's no problem. That's actually pretty my theory about Dawn but being that I have a bit of complex imagination, mine was a bit more involved. My guess was that Joyce perhaps had a miscarriage after Buffy so Dawn was created to as the child that never was but should have been.

If it is true that seasons 6-9 reveal that slayers are Demon hybrids than that's quite a careless inconsistency with the evidence to the contrary which has already been brought up here a few times:
*Spikes chip, which when used on Tara he clearly stated only counters upon him when he attacks a living human, not a living thing (contrary to Harmony's hilarious dimwitted interpretation when the initiative dr. fakes removing it) and we've seen it apply to Buffy.
*Her blood not being questioned when she had the transfusion from curing Angel, and the transfusion even being possible.
*Dawn; as Yosso stated, she was created human from Summers' blood. Which also raises another point. I don't know of this ever gets covered but up to 5.17 it's not discussed if the Slayers have linages, they are 'activated' when their predecessor dies. Joyce is clearly not a slayer, so I wonder now is the slayer thing in fact in the blood?

 

[Yosso]

Isn't that image of when Willow, Tara, Xander and Giles cast the spell to merge their spirits with Buffy to defeat Adam?

Wow can you pick something apart to death. What I meant was that Adam was manufactured like a machine, Slayers are born. And conception is not man made as other creatures conceive as well.

[MENTION=12359]Yosso[/MENTION] Thanks for the warning but it's no problem. That's actually pretty my theory about Dawn but being that I have a bit of complex imagination, mine was a bit more involved. My guess was that Joyce perhaps had a miscarriage after Buffy so Dawn was created to as the child that never was but should have been.

If it is true that seasons 6-9 reveal that slayers are Demon hybrids than that's quite a careless inconsistency with the evidence to the contrary which has already been brought up here a few times:
*Spikes chip, which when used on Tara he clearly stated only counters upon him when he attacks a living human, not a living thing (contrary to Harmony's hilarious dimwitted interpretation when the initiative dr. fakes removing it) and we've seen it apply to Buffy.
*Her blood not being questioned when she had the transfusion from curing Angel, and the transfusion even being possible.
*Dawn; as Yosso stated, she was created human from Summers' blood. Which also raises another point. I don't know of this ever gets covered but up to 5.17 it's not discussed if the Slayers have linages, they are 'activated' when their predecessor dies. Joyce is clearly not a slayer, so I wonder now is the slayer thing in fact in the blood?

I don't think I'd be giving anything away by saying that slayerhood isn't in the blood, it's not genetic or inherited through family. As you said, neither Dawn or Joyce are slayers and you'll also meet another character who will also prove this theory correct in S7.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

I don't think I'd be giving anything away by saying that slayerhood isn't in the blood, it's not genetic or inherited through family. As you said, neither Dawn or Joyce are slayers and you'll also meet another character who will also prove this theory correct in S7.

It doesn't at all, and I look forward to being introduced to this new character.
This also proves that Slayers can not possibly be genetically part demon. Though it was that is heavily believed of witches or psychic's powers that to be one is to ally with the devil himself, hence Salem. No one in Salem however ever claimed that a witch was not human. The Buffyverse could use that belief by way of claiming the slayer powers demonic (which is a significant difference) and make sense.

 

[Blaze]

This also proves that Slayers can not possibly be genetically part demon.

I see that you haven't finished Buffy yet, I won't spoil you but they will answer this question in s7 and it's actually brought up in the storyline.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

I see that you haven't finished Buffy yet, I won't spoil you but they will answer this question in s7 and it's actually brought up in the storyline.

Apparently so and as I have said if this is true that it's revealed that Slayers are part demon than it's an inconsistency.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

It was pretty clear that Buffy was emotional and irrational in her actions here. Faith is a sociopath, she'd taken a human life and didn't feel it at all. She refused help and allied with a known enemy against the Scoobies. Now she had harmed someone Buffy loves (She and Angel were broken up by this point but lets face it, that love will never die), she'd made it personal. Even Angel himself was willing to drain Faith over Buffy.
There is no question that ending Faith would be a public service and as they say, desperate times call for desperate measures. That blood was needed to save a life...or well...you know. Personally I wouldn't have had a problem with it, I would not mourn Faith.

But is this grounds for killing her? No, Faith is still a human being which was a violation of the slayer code and Buffy's values. Ultimately it would have ruined her emotionally. remember Ted? A possessive psycho asshole but nonetheless when she thought she'd killed him, a human being it had sent her into a deep shock and guilt especially given the fact that this was someone her mother had grown close to. This is what sets her apart from Faith. Under different circumstances, if Ted had actually been a human being (which he actually had not been) I could see her having gone downhill into a psychological breakdown.
Watching Faith tumble over the edge of the roof you can see the regret already forming on Buffy's face. True there was failure in that expression because Faith had taken her body and Angel's cure out of reach but the way she then looked down at the blood all over the blade in her hand, you can tell it's sinking in, what she'd done.

After thinking about this more I'd like to amend this opinion some though some of my initial points were kept.

There is no arguing that ending Faith would have been a public service, she was a sociopath in alliance with a slayer enemy and needed to be stopped. The points of Faith being within slayer jurisdiction and slayers not being fully human have been made clear to be debatable but regardless Buffy had acted irrationally on a personal agenda to save the life of the love of hers. Someone whom it could be debatable given what he is and what he's capable of becoming, should've been allowed to live after the whole experience with his dark side. Angel by all standards is no less dangerous than Faith, even more so probably. I'd like to clarify that I am speaking from a general perspective here, obviously I am an Angel fan.

Basically Buffy had the wrong motive but even with the right one ultimately I can see it emotionally ruining her. Remember Ted? This guy was a possessive psycho whom Buffy had despised but nonetheless when she'd thought she'd killed him, a human being she'd gone into a deep shock and state of guilt. Especially since this had been someone close to her mother. Under different circumstances if Ted actually had been a human being (which he had turned out not to be) I would not have been surprised to have seen her spiral downward into a psychological break down. You can already see it when Faith goes over the edge of the roof, as Buffy watched the body plummet there may have been a sense of loss as the blood that would save Angel's life was taken out of her reach but she then looked down at the blade in her hand covered in Faith's blood. She knew what she'd done. Eventually it would have hit fully and arguably it did. The prophetic dreams that she'd had foreshadowing Dawn's arrival, the fact that they'd featured Faith could be seen as a manifestation of her guilt. She had even been effected greatly watching the man Faith had staked die and knew that it could have been and if Faith weren't there probably would have been her. She's admitted to also having thought until the last second that the man was a vampire.

Let's for a moment now remove guilt from the equation to explore another angle. Let's say Buffy had no reservations about killing a dangerous human being and/or had been going after Faith for the right reason, to take a dangerous sociopath whom could not be contained in counsel custody off the streets. Would these circumstances have made it alright? Probably more so though there could still be the argument of jurisdiction.

The point is that under the particular circumstances, the motive that Buffy was acting on and the values that she was defying in her clouded judgement, no it was not alright.

 

[bentjazz]

I wish she would have. I can't stand Faith....
The series would have been much better off without Faith and several other unnecessary character arcs. Can we say Potential? I would rather have kept Kendra around, personally. Did I mention that I hate Faith?