What If: Riley did stake Spike?

[thetopher]

I'm sorry but no Spike in 'Forever' means no Doc turning up in the finale. And possibly no death of Buffy at all.

No BuffyBot afterwards? Guess they'll have to get Faith out of prison and have her guard the Hellmouth until they resurrect Buffy.

 

[NotASlayer]

Spike had nothing to o with Riley leaving

Other than ensuring that his relationship with Buffy was completely destroyed.

 

[garfan]

Other than ensuring that his relationship with Buffy was completely destroyed.

how long you think a guy is going to stay in a relationship where he tells people "she doesn't love me"

 

[NoShip]

I can't believe people saying Spike had no major impact on the plots

okay, without him Dawn has no one to commiserate with so we have no idea how negative her reactions were. The girl thought she might have been outright evil and he talked her down from that.

No Buffybot which means no using it in the battle with Glory or to impersonate Buffy while she's dead

Their attempts to run would have been totally different. As I recall he went out and stole the RV while they were still discussing it(I may be wrong) which means even if they had decided on a totally different way to go it would have been delayed which might have cost them

As a wise dear friend of mine likes to say: "A WRITER WROTE THIS". Meaning the story will go wherever the writers take it.

So, if Riley DID stake Spike, we would have an excellent S5 storyline, just without Spike. S6 and S7 would be good as well.

Hard for some to imagine. Very Easy for others.

Whedon & Co were good writers. They could write excellent seasons without Spike. See season 3.

 

[garfan]

As a wise dear friend of mine likes to say: "A WRITER WROTE THIS". Meaning the story will go wherever the writers take it.

So, if Riley DID stake Spike, we would have an excellent S5 storyline, just without Spike. S6 and S7 would be good as well.

Hard for some to imagine. Very Easy for others.

Whedon & Co were good writers. They could write excellent seasons without Spike. See season 3.

unfortunately I like the character creation more than the writing of Buffy and always preferred the Monsters of the Week to the main arcs

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

The show would be a lot less interesting without Spike around.

 

[Taake]

Well, if they dusted Spike, they probably wouldn’t get rid of Riley. They can’t get rid of two male leads at the same time.

Wonder if it would’ve lead to a ”dark Riley” storyline to compensate for the lack of a vampire in the cast. Darker than ”let’s vamps feed on him”, obviously.

Hm, not sure where that might’ve gone.
Or maybe Ben would have gotten a larger part

 

[garfan]

Well, if they dusted Spike, they probably wouldn’t get rid of Riley. They can’t get rid of two male leads at the same time.

Wonder if it would’ve lead to a ”dark Riley” storyline to compensate for the lack of a vampire in the cast. Darker than ”let’s vamps feed on him”, obviously.

Hm, not sure where that might’ve gone.
Or maybe Ben would have gotten a larger part

Ben would have been bigger. I mean the way the show works I'm shocked they didn't force him in more to get closer to the Scoobies

 

[Taake]

Ben would have been bigger. I mean the way the show works I'm shocked they didn't force him in more to get closer to the Scoobies

Ben does always seem a bit like a ”waste of potential” whenever I rewatch. Like he seems like he should have a bigger part and impact, than he ultimately does.

 

[NotASlayer]

The show would be a lot less interesting without Spike around.

Season 3 - peak Buffy - begs to differ!

Ben does always seem a bit like a ”waste of potential” whenever I rewatch. Like he seems like he should have a bigger part and impact, than he ultimately does.

I think much of what would have been his screen time got shifted onto Spike instead. Which damaged the season.

 

[garfan]

I think much of what would have been his screen time got shifted onto Spike instead. Which damaged the season.

Nothing about Ben screams need to see.

 

[NotASlayer]

Nothing about Ben screams need to see.

Nothing about Spike screams need to see. Ben, however, was important to the plot. Imagine if he had got more entangled with the Scoobies.

 

[garfan]

Nothing about Spike screams need to see. Ben, however, was important to the plot. Imagine if he had got more entangled with the Scoobies.

imagining that is why I say he doesn't scream to be seen

I seem unique among Buffy fans, or perhaps the ones who enjoy it the way I do don't care about it in the way that gets them looking to the online communities, but the more personal, the less I like it.

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

I don't feel like Ben's role needed to be bigger, he served his purpose and what we got with him was enough. The one character whose potential was wasted is Mr. Trick imo. I wish he stuck around as a recurring character.

 

[TheMaster666]

Spike would recognize the irony of dying from a spiky object, and break out into a beat-neck session of amateur-hour poetry as he dies in a drawn-out Shakesperean fashion. The Slayer and Scoob's go mad from how bloody awful the poetry is, nearly as bad as Vogon poetry in fact, so they voluntarily decide to jump out of an airlock and freeze to death in space. It is, of course, the merciful option. Unfortunately, there is no Infinite Improbability Drive to rescue them from freezing to death, so sadly, that's Game Over for the Slayer, and soon after the Demons and Vampires take over our world, doing heinously nasty deeds, like throwing in the white laundry with the colored, and putting recyclable water bottles in the garbage bin. Thus, our world fell to Darkness, and the Age of Mild Annoyances began for a thousand years.

 

[NoShip]

unfortunately I like the character creation more than the writing of Buffy and always preferred the Monsters of the Week to the main arcs

And writers wrote the characters and MOTW's as well.

The writers could take BTVS characters and monsters and storylines literally anywhere. We got what we got because Whedon and Noxon basically ran out of ideas.

 

[VampireSlayer07]

Spike's presence in the battle against Glory was irrelevant, so Riley could have easily taken his place. Who knows, he might have defeated Doc? That is pure speculation, though. Admittedly, he could have hardly done worse against Doc. And without Spike around, they might well have got transport that wasn't an RV that was slower than horses, perhaps stopping Dawn from being captured in the first place.

As @famicommander states, that is one way the endgame could have happened, and perhaps the one that requires the fewest changes, but things before then would have changed, with unknown knock-on effects. Without Spike around to abuse Buffy, she could have healed much faster from being pulled out of heaven. Certainly, her lousy choices related to Spike in S7 would not have happened, and without his abuse constantly dragging her down, she may well have come up with a much better plan than the one that would have got everyone killed if not for W&H. With Riley still around, it is much more likely that the Initiative could have been called in and, as I mentioned elsewhere, Sunnydale could have been nuked from orbit. Because that is the only way to be sure.

If Riley stopped Doc from bleeding Dawn maybe the portal never opens and Buffy never has to sacrifice herself, hence she never gets resurrected.

Perhaps Angel takes Spike's place in Chosen? Or perhaps Buffy does? Or maybe a solution shows up that doesn't require a sacrifice?

Oh and on a personal note I'd have been ecstatic, he should have been dusted at the very latest by the end of season four.

 

[NotASlayer]

If Riley stopped Doc from bleeding Dawn maybe the portal never opens and Buffy never has to sacrifice herself, hence she never gets resurrected.

Perhaps Angel takes Spike's place in Chosen? Or perhaps Buffy does? Or maybe a solution shows up that doesn't require a sacrifice?

Oh and on a personal note I'd have been ecstatic, he should have been dusted at the very latest by the end of season four.

The portal did only open because Dawn was bled. No bleeding, no portal!

Regarding Chosen, that entire arc only happened because Buffy died. No dead Buffy, no Chosen. It is all Spike's fault for being useless! 😀

Now, I like Spike so I would prefer if he had not been dusted at the end of S4, but there is no way after what he did he should have been allowed to stay in Sunnydale. And it got ridiculous in S5 (which damaged Spike and the show, especially in S6&7). A character no-one liked in-universe was pulling stuff that really should have got him staked multiple times over. After Primeval, he should have been run out of town. Have him bothering Angel and the Scoobies randomly all season, not just hanging around in a crypt getting away with trying to kill Buffy and Riley in S5, let alone the utterly creepy stalking.

 

[hoponlilmama]

If Riley stopped Doc from bleeding Dawn maybe the portal never opens and Buffy never has to sacrifice herself, hence she never gets resurrected.

Perhaps Angel takes Spike's place in Chosen? Or perhaps Buffy does? Or maybe a solution shows up that doesn't require a sacrifice?

Oh and on a personal note I'd have been ecstatic, he should have been dusted at the very latest by the end of season four.

Considering what we know, Angel could wear the amulet, and the PTB/W&H bring him back. Or the team works to free him from the amulet over on AtS s5.

 

[VampireSlayer07]

Considering what we know, Angel could wear the amulet, and the PTB/W&H bring him back. Or the team works to free him from the amulet over on AtS s5.

Actually yeah you have a point there. Wolfram & Hart intentionally made Angel their new CEO for a reason. Rather they knew about Spike or not can be debated but it makes sense to assume they knew there was the chance Angel would be the one wearing the amulet and had a way to bring him back from that sacrifice. Though NotASlayer is also right to say that whole storyline may not ever happened if Buffy had never had to sacrifice herself to close the portal and be resurrected.