What if Willow had completed the resurrection spell?

[Joshua]

What if Willow wasn't disturbed by the demon gang and she was able to complete her resurrection spell, would Buffy had been as messed up as she was in S6? Or would the outcome had been the same?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Willow did complete the resurrection spell - she only thought the spell had been broken because the urn was broken. Of course the proof of this is that Buffy returned. Either way, Buffy would have been messed up. Even before they were interrupted, no one thought to dig up the coffin so Buffy didn't have to claw her way out. Spike immediately recognized that this is what had happened even when no one else had thought about it until after the fact. This led to some sympathy for Spike on Buffy's part because, as had happened with Dawn in Season 5 where people started treating her differently because she was the key, no one else was willing to give a straight answer to a straight question. Buffy asked Spike how long she had been gone because everyone else was trying to placate her rather than answer questions.

She was pulled out of heaven. That would not have changed and it was something she could only confide in with Spike. In no small part, this was what impelled Buffy to start a relationship with Spike. Within minutes after revealing this secret under the compulsion of Sweet, she started the relationship with a kiss for Spike. It didn't help that she was broke, had become the guardian of Dawn, faced the opposition of the Trio and the traveller that accompanied her in "Afterlife", Willow's obsession with magic culminating in Dark Willow, Doublemeat Palace, Child Protective Services and a lot of other annoyances. Even if she hadn't died, it would have been depressing.

 

[Lyri]

Buffy's problems in S6 weren't caused by Willow's spell being 'messed up'. Willow's spell was completed correctly - Buffy was resurrected. Her spell worked as it was supposed to.

Buffy's problems were caused by the fact that she was torn out of heaven. She said it herself, she was warm and she was finished. She was happy in heaven, where everything was good and safe. And she ripped out of there, back into hell, into her life of fighting to the death every night. No one bothered to stop and see if Buffy was okay, even after they found out about heaven. They just expected her to deal with everything - Dawn, the mortgage, bills, food, finding a job, saving the world. They just expected her to be okay. And she wasn't okay.

If her friends had taken the slightest bit of interest in her, Buffy wouldn't have been half as depressed as she was.

 

[RomanticSoul]

If her friends had taken the slightest bit of interest in her, Buffy wouldn't have been half as depressed as she was.

Yes, but then Buffy wouldn't have slept with Spike. The scoobies had to become drooling morons with blinders on to pull that crap off. And after S5 this really made no sense whatsoever. Cheap soft core porn+blatant character assasination > decent/believable storyline+characterization.

But hey what do I know since my general answer to this question...

What if Willow wasn't disturbed by the demon gang and she was able to complete her resurrection spell, would Buffy had been as messed up as she was in S6? Or would the outcome had been the same?

...is always that we would have been spared the S6/7 version of Buffy if only Willow had managed to bring Buffy's brain back too. Clearly that got left behind.

 

[janas]

...is always that we would have been spared the S6/7 version of Buffy if only Willow had managed to bring Buffy's brain back too. Clearly that got left behind.

Maybe, she would have succeeded, if only she been less arrogant. I hate Willow for what her did, and in season 10 she admits it was wrong.

 

[Lyri]

Willow was wrong for wanting to do the spell in the first place, yes, but she didn't actually get the spell wrong. The spell was completed exactly as it was supposed to have been done. She did it right. Nothing went wrong with the actual spell.

The problems started when Buffy was left to crawl her way up out of her coffin. What, did they just think she would magically appear beside them? Or at home?

But the blame still lies with Willow for wanting to do the spell in the first place. She didn't think it through. Why she thought someone like Buffy would be in hell in the first place is beyond me.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Why she thought someone like Buffy would be in hell in the first place is beyond me.

Because she jumped into and through a portal opening to a hell dimension.

 

[Lyri]

Because she jumped into and through a portal opening to a hell dimension.

But this wasn't like Angel. Angel's physical body was sent to a hell dimension. Buffy was killed by the energy of the portal...or her bleeding out, I've never really been clear on that, lol. And I know I've argued this before, playing Devil's Advocate, but it never really made much sense to me why they just assumed that Buffy's soul was sucked into hell. My thinking would have been to at least research the possibility that that wasn't what happened first.

 

[janas]

Because she jumped into and through a portal opening to a hell dimension.

But she died in the process, she didn't go into that hell dimension. Her physical body was still there. Her friends thought that her soul was in a hell dimension, and there was no good reason to thinking it. Willow should have known better, she would have to do more research before using black magic ...and there was a way to find out where was Buffy's soul. Angel used the Axis of Pythia to know where was Cordelia.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Her body was there, but she may have just been a shell, as her blood was needed to close it and she was, from the scene bloodless, one could have assumed that when it drained her blood it too took her soul. 

Angel used the Axis of Pythia to know where was Cordelia.

But Angel was smart like that.. the Scoobies just had Spike.

(runs and hides now)

 

[white avenger]

Buffy's problems were caused by the fact that she was torn out of heaven.

No one bothered to stop and see if Buffy was okay, even after they found out about heaven. They just expected her to deal with everything - Dawn, the mortgage, bills, food, finding a job, saving the world. They just expected her to be okay. And she wasn't okay.

If her friends had taken the slightest bit of interest in her, Buffy wouldn't have been half as depressed as she was.

Initially waking up inside a buried coffin, then having to fight the demon motorcycle gang would have been pretty traumatic as well, plus, in her semi-delirious condition, having a conversation with a dismembered version of herself certainly added to the shock. If all of that hadn't have happened, if she had been, in effect, "eased," rather than "torn" out of heaven, things probably would have been better. Not perfect, but better.

But this wasn't like Angel. Angel's physical body was sent to a hell dimension.

But her friends actually saw Buffy jump through what couldn't have been anything but a hell dimensoin portal. Even though her body didn't go through, it's possible that her soul could have, or at least, that's apparently what they assumed.

But she died in the process, she didn't go into that hell dimension. Her physical body was still there. Her friends thought that her soul was in a hell dimension, and there was no good reason to thinking it. Willow should have known better, she would have to do more research before using black magic ...and there was a way to find out where was Buffy's soul. Angel used the Axis of Pythia to know where was Cordelia.

Bear in mind that Willow, at that point, was a very powerful witch, but she had little or no experience controlling that power. That's the screw up with the resurrection, not the spell itself. At that point, she was depending on the Urn of Osiris as a catalyst to make the resurrection spell work. Later,when Tara is killed, she doesn't need any urn to activate the spell, her chant is enough, and, when Osiris refuses to grant her wish, she is actually powerful, once more without any props, to punish him. Then, after spending time with the Coven in England and a few few false starts at home, she's much more cautious about casting any spells.when Tara is killed, she doesn't need any urn to activate the spell, her chant is enough, and, when Osiris refuses to grant her wish, she is actually powerful, once more without any props, to punish him.

 

[Lyri]

Not better, no, but the fact remains that they didn't even think about it. They didn't even stop long enough to wonder where Buffy was going to come back TO, if the spell worked. Did they really think she was going to be poofed into existence somewhere? And if they did, did they not think about how much of a mind-f*** it would have had on Dawn had her dead sister suddenly materialize in the living room?

They were doing this spell on top of her grave. And these people aren't dumb, they're not stupid. One of them should have had the presence of mind to think 'oh, maybe we should dig her up first'.

I could understand if it was part of the spell, if there was something in the spell that said it would only work on a body that had been buried. But it didn't. There was nothing mentioned about it.

And on top of that, they just sat back and let Buffy worry about absolutely everything, up to and including saving the world.

And people wonder why I hate I'm so protective of Buffy.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Not better, no, but the fact remains that they didn't even think about it. They didn't even stop long enough to wonder where Buffy was going to come back TO, if the spell worked. Did they really think she was going to be poofed into existence somewhere?

Buffy and Dawn did not think on that when they attempted to resurrect their mother.

 

[Lyri]

Buffy and Dawn did not think on that when they attempted to resurrect their mother.

DAWN AND WILLOW didn't think about that when they tried to resurrect Joyce. Buffy had no part in that until the spell was already cast. There's no blame to put on Buffy in that situation. And, oh, we're back to Willow again.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

DAWN AND WILLOW

Simma down, feisty! I knew that. So you are saying it's Willow's fault, yet again? Next you'll be talking about them using magics and how nothing good ever comes from magics and be sounding all Connorish. Those people and their magics.

EDIT:
Besides, you know the reason why they brought her back without thinking about the ramifications, as well as I do!

 

[thetopher]

S5 'Forever' is just the start of showing how thoughtless Willow is when it comes to magic- she does something without considering the consequences of what will happen.
She feels bad for Dawn so does something to ease her own sense of guilt- it's kiddie behaviour. And when Tara seems troubled by what Dawn may do Willow is chiefly worried about people finding out about her own involvement.
(Also Spike also helps- something which never really gets mentioned- helping a child raise a zombie-Mom isn't exactly smart thinking.)

S6 Willow's actions are entirely in character- she thinks that Buffy is in some hell dimension and so she convince the others likewise (how else could she get Tara to go along with it), and because she has the most experience with powerful magics they all believed her and follow her lead.

Next you'll be talking about them using magics and how nothing good ever comes from magics and be sounding all Connorish. Those people and their magics.

I think people are critising Willow's attitude to magic in S5/6- it's a blunt instrument, might makes right no matter what the consequences. If Willow doesn't like something, and she can fix it with magic, then she will and she'll believe totally that she's doing the right thing.

 

[janas]

Simma down, feisty! I knew that. So you are saying it's Willow's fault, yet again? Next you'll be talking about them using magics and how nothing good ever comes from magics and be sounding all Connorish. Those people and their magics.

In "Forever" Willow was... I can't even define what I feel for what you her have done in Forever. Hypocritical, stupid, arrogant, immature... In presence of Tara she was all no no no... and then? as Tara has just turned her back, Willow has indicated to Dawn the book to look for the spell.
Edit: Oh, and Connor has good reason to hate the magic ...just saying 🙂

 

[Skanky Vamp]

In "Forever" Willow was...

Why was she guilty? She was doing what anyone else would do had they had the power to do so. In Angel, you see similar actions from Angel and he is considered a hero; doing what you have to do no matter the cost. now I will really take the piss If it were anyone's fault it would be Buffy's. Rather than creating an independent and self-sufficient team- one that could operate in her absence, she made them dependent on her. As such, they did what they had to do to get their lives back to a sense of normality. They could not function with Buffy being gone, so they brought her back.

 

[janas]

Why was she guilty? She was doing what anyone else would do had they had the power to do so...

Even knowing that the death of Joyce was not a mystical death? 

Scobro: Why would it matter? Honestly. If these events were 'real' and happened in the real world, do you not think it would not happen more often?

Sure, and all us would have lived as in "Night of the Living Dead" 🙂

 

[EVIL UU]

Buffy's problems did not start in season 6, I mean, yeah, resurrection probably made it worse but she's already falling apart in season 5. Her relationship implodes, her mother dies and she can't protect her sister. She can't even protect herself - Glory mopes the floor with her and a random vampire gores her with her own stake. Wow, she's pathetic. Anyway, you can't blame Buffy's depression on her friends. They're not responsible for her mental health. They can help but they have their own lives and more importantly, Buffy doesn't want their help. She lies to them about everything - about where she was, about how she feels, about Spike and so on. It's very hard to do anything in such a situation.

S6 Willow's actions are entirely in character- she thinks that Buffy is in some hell dimension and so she convince the others likewise (how else could she get Tara to go along with it), and because she has the most experience with powerful magics they all believed her and follow her lead.

I don't buy it 'cause Tara's the expert on dimensions, not Willow. Anya knows a lot more as well.

If her friends had taken the slightest bit of interest in her, Buffy wouldn't have been half as depressed as she was.

How naive. Depression doesn't work like that. I wish it would. Other people, family, friends, lovers - they can't pull you out of it. They can try to help but it might as well make things worse. It's up to you overcome it, take your life back - it's your health.