What is your biggest complaint about season 7?

[Airam]

I haven't read the thread but I just wanted to remark on this comment.

I think the show playing the lesbian card again had a few different purposes. Willow herself said to Kennedy that she didn't fall for women per se she fell for a woman, Tara. With Tara gone I think the show needed to reiterate Willow's homosexuality and clearly define her as gay and that she didn't 'want the boys' anymore.

I think it was also a way of trying to appease all those who were angry at Tara's death. The show wanted to prove that they would continue to portray same sex relationships in a responsible, honest and positive way. They wanted to remove any suggestion that BTVS would take the easy way out and suddenly give Willow a boyfriend again and remove the gay factor.
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It depends on the situation. Joss needed to reasure fans that he wasn't going to just undermine Willow and Tara's story by making Willow straight again. Alot of people felt that Tara was killed because she was a lesbian (absolutely ridiculous in my opinion) Joss needed to carry on the positive message he had created with Willow and Tara.

I agree that the show used Kennedy for the purpose of reiterating that Willow was "gay now and that she didn't want the boys anymore." I just still don't understand why? Willow told Kennedy herself that she fell in love with one woman, Tara... I think it undermines the Tillow relationship more that Willow would almost immediately start up a sexual and emotional relationship with the first girl that hits on her. Willow's gay, fine okay but I still think the Tillow relationship would resonate as more special if the Willow is gay now thing wasn't SO constantly drilled into our heads by the show. I view Tara less as Willow's first lesbian relationship and more as a grand love story between two soulmates. I don't think theres a need for it to be more about the gay/straight/bi thing than about the love. And then the Joss needing to "reasure fans that he wasn't going to just undermine Willow and Tara's story by making Willow straight again." He probably did think that, and that makes me seriously want to come to Oz's defense cause then how did Tillow not undermine Willow and Oz's story? THAT'S where it just goes all crazy for me, cause I don't feel either relationship should undermine the other, but Willow being given the clear label of gay leaves no room around that.

 

[Kean]

I agree that the show used Kennedy for the purpose of reiterating that Willow was "gay now and that she didn't want the boys anymore." I just still don't understand why? Willow told Kennedy herself that she fell in love with one woman, Tara... I think it undermines the Tillow relationship more that Willow would almost immediately start up a sexual and emotional relationship with the first girl that hits on her. Willow's gay, fine okay but I still think the Tillow relationship would resonate as more special if the Willow is gay now thing wasn't SO constantly drilled into our heads by the show. I view Tara less as Willow's first lesbian relationship and more as a grand love story between two soulmates. I don't think theres a need for it to be more about the gay/straight/bi thing than about the love. And then the Joss needing to "reasure fans that he wasn't going to just undermine Willow and Tara's story by making Willow straight again." He probably did think that, and that makes me seriously want to come to Oz's defense cause then how did Tillow not undermine Willow and Oz's story? THAT'S where it just goes all crazy for me, cause I don't feel either relationship should undermine the other, but Willow being given the clear label of gay leaves no room around that.

I don't necessarily agree with what I said up there but that is what I think happend. My own personal opinion is that Joss was trying to appease fans so he pushed the lesbian thing more than he should have and possibly would have and more than was fair. I think he was trying to be PC. There was some huge detractors when Tara died and I think they unfairly and cynically claimed that Tara was killed simply because she was gay. I don't buy that and I quite franky it offends me that people would even suggest it.

It's like me cuasing a big hub bub and saying Angel and Doyle were killed because they were Irish. It's ridiculous and takes away from the integority of the show when it has to pander to small groups of irate fans.

 

[Airam]

I don't necessarily agree with what I said up there but that is what I think happend. My own personal opinion is that Joss was trying to appease fans so he pushed the lesbian thing more than he should have and possibly would have and more than was fair. I think he was trying to be PC. There was some huge detractors when Tara died and I think they unfairly and cynically claimed that Tara was killed simply because she was gay. I don't buy that and I quite franky it offends me that people would even suggest it.

It's like me cuasing a big hub bub and saying Angel and Doyle were killed because they were Irish. It's ridiculous and takes away from the integority of the show when it has to pander to small groups of irate fans.

LMAO... I got a mental image of you picketing outside the Angel set with a big sign that said, "The Irish WILL be heard!" :biggrin:

Yeah people always seem to tack on an agenda when they feel gay characters are treated unfairly when usually its nothing personal, just a means to move the story along (Like with Erica Hahn on Greys as we both know. Her character just sucked, it had nothing to do with her lesbian awakening.) I didn't know that that kind of talk was going around when Tara was killed off, but I agree its ludicrous to suggest Joss would kill off a beloved character of almost 3 years because she was gay. And yeah, I too think it was him trying to be PC. He'd comitted to Willow as a lesbian so he thought he needed to keep pushing the issue and so we got Kennedy shoved down our throats... oh joy.

 

[Kean]

LMAO... I got a mental image of you picketing outside the Angel set with a big sign that said, "The Irish WILL be heard!" :biggrin:

Yeah people always seem to tack on an agenda when they feel gay characters are treated unfairly when usually its nothing personal, just a means to move the story along (Like with Erica Hahn on Greys as we both know. Her character just sucked, it had nothing to do with her lesbian awakening.) I didn't know that that kind of talk was going around when Tara was killed off, but I agree its ludicrous to suggest Joss would kill off a beloved character of almost 3 years because she was gay. And yeah, I too think it was him trying to be PC. He'd comitted to Willow as a lesbian so he thought he needed to keep pushing the issue and so we got Kennedy shoved down our throats... oh joy.

*Hoists placard in the air* "The Irish will not be ignored!!!" :lmao:

It didn't even cross my mind that Tara was killed because she was a lesbian character, nor did I think that Hahn was axed because she was gay. Tara was for the plot of the show and Han was just a horrible character, simple as that. It's not fair to stick your own personal agenda to a show that has nothing to do with it.

 

[Pulse]

so I really like season 7, it had so much heart, and honestly if i were to ever decide to randomly rewatch a season I also choose 7 first. my problem is that is seems as though there were some inconsistencies. like how could buffy barely kill the uber vamp, and then later could more easily kill the newer ones... and how could the potentials fare so well against something that orginally buffy could barely manage. Also, i don't understand where the first is. i mean the first's army is gone, but isn't "it" still well and alive, and thus he's just gonna make another move one of these days

 

[PurplePoof]

And yeah, I too think it was him trying to be PC. He'd comitted to Willow as a lesbian so he thought he needed to keep pushing the issue and so we got Kennedy shoved down our throats... oh joy.

I think that's true in a way...but I'm glad he re-iterated the fact that Willow WAS a lesbian and wasn't gonna "turn" back to sausage after her female lover was untimely murdered...

 

[TehRa]

As a straight female who thought that W/T relationship was beautifully portrayed, I cannot really comment on the social implications of how Willow's sexuality was handled as emphatically as those who relates to it (although I doubt that all gay viewers were ecstatic about Kennedy either), or why ME or JW felt that placing Kennedy "front and center" in Willow's S7 arc is the only way to have a Scooby "happy" by the end of the series. I cannot argue with the writers and JW if that is how they see Willow, but as a fan, I thought it was a disservice to a character they've already put through so much. They said S6 is about growing up; with the Kennedy thing, Willow just regressed - which reminds me of a fan essay which says that in the Buffyverse, when you grow (matured) to the point that Tara reached in S6, your story is finished. Well, I guess that's TV reality.

 

[LadyLavinia]

The Eye of Bejorca or whatever it was. The writers never really explained what it was trying to say to Giles and Anya.
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The Eye of Bejorca or whatever it was. The writers never really explained what it was trying to say to Giles and Anya.

As a straight female who thought that W/T relationship was beautifully portrayed, I cannot really comment on the social implications of how Willow's sexuality was handled as emphatically as those who relates to it (although I doubt that all gay viewers were ecstatic about Kennedy either), or why ME or JW felt that placing Kennedy "front and center" in Willow's S7 arc is the only way to have a Scooby "happy" by the end of the series.

It's interesting that you described Willow's relationship with Tara as beautiful. I found it boring, except for the period when the two were estranged following Willow's second act of psychic rape in "Tabula Rasa".

 

[TehRa]

It's interesting that you described Willow's relationship with Tara as beautiful. I found it boring, except for the period when the two were estranged following Willow's second act of psychic rape in "Tabula Rasa".

Well, to each his own 🙂
Some people saw what made W/T click; some didn't, for one reason or another. Well, I saw it and they didn't bore me.

 

[Randy Giles]

Honestly it's hard to find anything regarding season seven to complain about, and I've seen it a lot now. I think it was a perfect way to end the series...the gang faces off against The First and I love the Potentials. And focusing on the next generation of Slayers seems like a great way to end the show after seven years, and then Caleb is one of my favorite villains. Not to mention Faith comes back. This season is filled to the brim with excellent storylines...

 

[Emuhleigh]

The Potential thing just bores me - with the exception of Kennedy, they all just seemed like the same character with different faces. No personalities, no character development - I know that time constraints would've made that pretty impossible, but it made me pretty much not care about their impending deaths.

Also, I guess, none of the episodes really stick out to me. The last few, especially, just blur together.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

My biggest complaint was there was too much going on. I think being that it was the last season it should have been more subtle. More with the core four. I wanted to see Willow dealing with her new powers more, I wanted to see Buffy doing more with training Dawn, I wanted to see more of Anya trying to come into her own. It's like after "Selfless," her purpose became worthless. I wish they did more with Sunnydale High and Dawn attending the school. They introduced these friends the first episode and we never saw them again. Finally I would have liked to have seen Buffy's strength, speed, agility, senses, all her slayer powers increase and evolve even further, because she resumed her intensive training with Giles that she stopped in Season 5 after her mother died and then she died and got depressed.

 

[Ashxking]

I wanted Caleb to be an ex watcher who could have been a pre curser to Twilight. Seeing how nothing changes. evil still marches on and trying to open the hellmouth and suck the world in it

 

[Kelsey]

I agree with most everything that's been said here; the only Potential I found likable was Rona. Kennedy was especially awful, and the others were just dull and uninteresting. However, I actually found Dawn tolerable, even pleasant, up until the infamous Empty Spaces. I agree about the lack of worthwhile Willow and Xander plotlines, as well, although I didn't miss Giles as much.

Thoroughly enjoyable Spuffy scenes aside, Spike's plotline probably bothered me the most in Season 7. To be fair, my complaints started at the end of Season 6, because I completely believe that Spike did not need a soul. If I'd wanted to see a vampire brooding and weeping over past wrongs, I could've just tuned into Angel (which, in all fairness, I did).

Spike was always a unique character because of the humanity he showed despite being a vampire. The fact that he regained his soul to soothe Buffy's very rigid views of right and wrong (Uhm, Buff? What about human serial killers? Or Anya? Or Clem? Or Dawn being created by a bunch of monks?) was ridiculous. And then for her to never once be corrected on that view, to say, "Oh, I believe in you now, Spike, because you've gone and done what I told you to do, and it's easier for me to justify my feelings for you" just infuriated me. Barely one mention of the cruelty she showed him during Season 6; barely one mention of the good he'd done and the progress he'd made before the soul.

I wanted to see Spike step back onto the path he'd begun in Season 5, but made a detour from in Season 6; I wanted to see him fight to be good. And I wanted him to do it without a soul.

(As a side note, because I realize my post is a little one-sided, I really do like Buffy. I know that she wasn't the only one who did things wrong; neither of them was kind to the other. However, I feel that Spike was the one who most completely paid for his mistakes.)

 

[olol]

I agree with you. Spike was able to feel something, like love or loyalty. But he was still a demon.

As I see it, he somehow couldnt go anymore. I mean, in buffyverse there it makes a differenz to have a soul though nobody is really sure what this differenz is. I like to see it, as the next step. He went through all this to see that now he need to go and take his soul back because without it he cant go further. And thats an achievement. If you are a demon, you feel powerful and dont feel any regrets for the evil things you did. Spike did love Buffy thats why he protected Dawn or came to like her. He didnt feel anything about other people he is not connected with. And after the rape attempt(which he didnt mean to be a rape attempt) he somehow saw that he cant change it. He was a demon.

Sometimes I do believe that it he would have needed a lot of strengh NOT to go and take his soul back. He had to see Buffy everyday and know he is this scum who tried to hurt the woman he loves. It was easier to get his soul and be pathetic... and more impressive to Buffy. BUT if he didnt he would have stayed this.. lets say special demon. But he would have come to get a better person.

 

[Randy Giles]

It seems that most people dislike the fact that season seven is so busy and has so much going on. For some reason, I feel like a final season SHOULD have more going on rather than being slower. And in Buffy's case, didn't Sarah decide to quit after the season had begun already? So the writers probably had to add a LOT because I'm sure at first they were expecting to get an eighth season. I would agree that there should have been a few character study episodes but overall the season had a more epic feel that I thought was appropriate for the final season of a seven-year-old action show.

 

[Kelsey]

I agree with you. Spike was able to feel something, like love or loyalty. But he was still a demon.

I see where you're coming from, and your opinion probably makes more sense for the canon we've been given, but I think that Joss either knowingly or accidentally broke his own vampire rules with Spike. I'm going with "knowingly", because there have been other characters like him--Clem, Lorne, etc--who've been demon and good, or at least not bad.

I think, given the promise Spike showed in Season 5 (Season 6 wasn't great on the Spike-can-be-good front, but Buffy was screwing with his head quite a bit) he could have pulled it off without a soul. It would have been a hell of a lot harder, and the writers would have had to work at it and probably spend more time than they really wanted on Spike, but I think it could've been done.

As for Season 7 pet peeves, I always hated that Anya died. She was one of my favorites.

 

[The Ferg]

I really liked S7, so it's kinda hard for me to think of a complaint. 🙂 I was going to say Spike's whole storyline. It wasn't bad, but, just the worst part of S7. Then I read Pulse's post, and I've decided that the uber-vamp inconsistencies are quite dumb. 🙂

 

[WhiteHat]

In my heart, the show ended when Buffy jumped into the dimensional rift to save the world and Dawn.


Gravestone:

SHE SAVED THE WORLD.
A LOT.

 

[PDH5204]

For my first post, can we burn season 7 save for "Selfless"? The "Isn't that just like a slayer, solving all her problems by sticking things with sharp objects" and the "I think we already know what lady hacks-away wants" are priceless. So too is the whole D'Hoffryn performance.

Re the need for a soul for Spike, well, in the absence of the same, Xander's disgust at the end of Entropy pretty much sums it up for me. Since Buffy anticipated his disgust, knew he was right, she was first "tortured" and then left speechless when the anticipated was made real. Stung Anya so much that just when Spike was going to give her what she'd been seeking, that wish, she said "no".