What makes you different to most Buffy fans? - Possible spoilers

[PrincessBuffy16]

You both completely understand my point and are taking it the wrong way at the same time.

Everything you have just said is true and fine, and is exactly how things ought to be. I call it silly and ridiculous because of a point you didn't mention here in your reply but was the whole point of my saying all of this - the extremes people go to. The either / or, the one or the other. That's where the problem is, not in talking about the relationships themselves.

Here's an example:

Oz and Willow fans that hate Tara, and their relationship. Why? Because they are Oz and Willow "Shippers". Spike fans who hate Angel just because they are Spike and Buffy "Shippers". That's the kind of extreme I'm talking about and that is what is ridiculous about to me.

I'm not trying the make the point, and I understand what you're trying to say.

But that kind of things you're not going to see here, because we're mature and understanding people no matter how old we are, 12 or 60 😉

There are people who like Spuffy, and don't like Angel.. but Spuffy is not the reason they hate Angel. Angel is.

 

[NL197]

I'm not trying the make the point, and I understand what you're trying to say.

But that kind of things you're not going to see here, because we're mature and understanding people no matter how old we are, 12 or 60 😉

There are people who like Spuffy, and don't like Angel.. but Spuffy is not the reason they hate Angel. Angel is.

What about fans who don't like or just don't watch seasons 1 to 3 of Buffy because she's with Angel and not Spike?
Or fans who don't watch season 7 because Tara's not there, Kennedy is?

Fans who might hate Oz and probably don't watch many episodes with him and Willow?

Fans who won't watch Angel - the series - because of the dislike for Cordelia and Angel's barely-there romance, or won't watch it because Angel's not with Buffy on her show?

Those are just a few examples but they can go on, and go very, very far depending on the combinations.

It's just so absolute, and forces a set of restrictions fans place on themselves rather than just enjoying it all, accepting the changes and the way things evolved without having to hate anything. Prefer something over another is one thing but outright hating / disliking because of it....

 

[Kean]

What about fans who don't like or just don't watch seasons 1 to 3 of Buffy because she's with Angel and not Spike?
Or fans who don't watch season 7 because Tara's not there, Kennedy is?

Fans who might hate Oz and probably don't watch many episodes with him and Willow?

Fans who won't watch Angel - the series - because of the dislike for Cordelia and Angel's barely-there romance, or won't watch it because Angel's not with Buffy on her show?

Those are just a few examples but they can go on, and go very, very far depending on the combinations.

I'm butting in here, but I'm just wondering, what exactly is wrong with any of this behaviour? Where is it said that people are required to enjoy this show and its characters in any particular way? Whatever reason some have for liking or disliking an aspect of the show(s) is very much their business and more importantly, they are very much entitled to those preferences. No matter how ludicrous they may seem to others.

 

[BuffyElevated]

What makes me different??
- I'm not a scifi fan. "BtVS" and "Angel" are about the only two scifi shows I love (besides "Smallville).
- I'm not a big vampire fan. I like them but I don't go around disecting everything about Joss' vampires, comparing them to people like Anne Rice's vampires, Twilight's vamps, etc.
-I can see the good and the bad in every single character of the show. I love them all for different reasons (although I don't care that much for Willow in the later seasons), and don't get how people can continually hate on any character.
-I don't worship Joss Whedon like a lot of fans of the show seem to. In fact, I think he comes off like a big douchebag a lot of the time.

 

[Justme]

What about fans who don't like or just don't watch seasons 1 to 3 of Buffy because she's with Angel and not Spike?
Or fans who don't watch season 7 because Tara's not there, Kennedy is?

Fans who might hate Oz and probably don't watch many episodes with him and Willow?

Fans who won't watch Angel - the series - because of the dislike for Cordelia and Angel's barely-there romance, or won't watch it because Angel's not with Buffy on her show?

Those are just a few examples but they can go on, and go very, very far depending on the combinations.

It's just so absolute, and forces a set of restrictions fans place on themselves rather than just enjoying it all, accepting the changes and the way things evolved without having to hate anything. Prefer something over another is one thing but outright hating / disliking because of it....

I always skip the episode where Buffy throws Giles out because of the Spike thing.

I am not a "Biles" fan though (Bile being very appropriate here 😛)

 

[This Year's Girl]

First and foremost since this relates to fandom specifically, and it's not limited to this forum but ALL of Buffyverse fandom:

I can't stand the idea of "Shipping". In fact, I can't stand that word at all.

Bangel, Cangel, Spuffy....all of those combo-word acronyms are the biggest pet-peeve I have about Buffyverse fandom.
I think those non-words are unbelievably stupid to say and to spell.
I don't use short-form for texting or MSN Messenger, I use full words. That's a big part of why I hate these acronyms because they not only look and sound stupid, but I just say to myself whenever I see them "just spell the f**king words out, it's not that hard". None of this "2 bad 4 u" nonsense. I'd rather see someone with terrible spelling make the effort than do that.

At the same time, my dislike of "shipping" has nothing to do with those. It's an entirely separate issue:

I don't like the shipping idea because all it does is create not only fan conflict, but an incredible bias and a series of absolute, either/or thinking taken to an extreme that is just tiring and annoying to have to put up with. That bias overrides all reason at times, which seems to be the sole reason a fan likes something, or dislikes something. It's completely ridiculous. (White Avenger insulted me by saying I was ridiculous because I thought the shipping concept itself was ridiculous when he made it a point to bombard a new member with the shipping slogan he has as a signature...)

Well, if he reads this now he knows why I think it's ridiculous. I don't think he is ridiculous, but for him to think I am just proves my point.

The extremes are so unreasonable and all they do is create reasons to love something and hate something - usually the latter. Willow and Tara, fine. Willow and Oz, fine. Shippers seem to be more like: Willow and Tara, NOT Willow and Oz, or Buffy and Spike, NOT Buffy and Angel.
That self-imposed need to love one OR the other, love one, HATE the other, and everything it stood / stands for, is just too unreasonable for this fan.

I have no preference for these relationships on either show, one way or another. People don't live in absolutes, so there's no reason for characters to either. People move on, change and that's realistic. Shipping isn't when it does nothing but start arguments and give excuses to bash something. Kind of pointless in having conversations when such a strong bias exists. Personally, it makes me want to forget the whole thing and go elsewhere.

I suppose that's more than enough for me to set me apart from other Buffy fans, and I make no apologies for it. "Ship" all you want, fine. Just don't expect me to adopt that extreme either / or attitude that seems to go along with it.


There is when you were insulted by that member without reason.

I see your point, but I think the harsh tone you have in this post is very unnecessary. I haven't come across any Buffy fans other than here, but I have always found that people here respect each other no matter who they 'ship or not. It's all in good fun and doesn't usually lead to the either or mentality you're talking about. Take me for example, I like Spuffy, but that doesn't mean I don't see the good in Bangel.

Also, I think it's totally uncalled for and rude of you to say that the shipping words are "unbelievably stupid" when you obviously must have seen that a lot of people use them here. Why can't we? It's just a fun way to talk about two peoples relationship in the show. Think about how you express yourself, you might hurt peoples feelings.

With that being said, welcome to the boards! I haven't seen you here before. Hope you have fun here!

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

What about fans who don't like or just don't watch seasons 1 to 3 of Buffy because she's with Angel and not Spike?
Or fans who don't watch season 7 because Tara's not there, Kennedy is?

Fans who might hate Oz and probably don't watch many episodes with him and Willow?

Fans who won't watch Angel - the series - because of the dislike for Cordelia and Angel's barely-there romance, or won't watch it because Angel's not with Buffy on her show?

Those are just a few examples but they can go on, and go very, very far depending on the combinations.

It's just so absolute, and forces a set of restrictions fans place on themselves rather than just enjoying it all, accepting the changes and the way things evolved without having to hate anything. Prefer something over another is one thing but outright hating / disliking because of it....

Then those people are not fans, and like I said, those people are not a part of this boards. Or I still haven't met them here.

And people who skip some episodes while rewatching, what's wrong with it? I sometimes skip to, because I feel sick seeing Buffy and Spike having sex on the balcony in The Bronze. Is that wrong? I don't like it, and I would much rather skip that episode and watch the next one, then watching it over and over again. What's the point. I, as a huge Bangel fan, watch both S6 and 7.. some episodes I don't enjoy.. it goes same for the Spuffy fans, I never heard that anyone skipped first 3 seasons just because of Bangel.

 

[Kean]

Then those people are not fans, and like I said, those people are not a part of this boards. Or I still haven't met them here.

Why are those people not fans? Because they don't like everything about the shows? because they find some aspects offensive?

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

If that is the case then I'm not a fan.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I love Connor and I really dislike Xander and Faith most of the time. As much as I loved Tara with Willow, I preferred when Willow was with Oz as it seemed sweeter. Oh and Season 6 is probably my favourite season, seems like I may be in the minority on that one.

 

[Kean]

Back to TK's original question.

I don't care for vampires. At all. If a character is interesting it's interesting no matter if they're vampires or not. The only movie I've watched because it had vampires in it is Vampires suck and besides Buffy related books I haven't read a single vampire book aimed at teens or older.

I'm not into horror movies. Kind of goes hand in hand with with the previous one I guess. This doesn't mean that I never watch horror movies. But in general I prefer other genres.

100% agreement.

The one thing that I find the most is that the older I get the more underwhelmed I become with the verse. I find more and more things that I disagree with or find disappointing.

 

[Flannen]

The one thing that I find the most is that the older I get the more underwhelmed I become with the verse. I find more and more things that I disagree with or find disappointing.

This is why I love you, Kean. Because we have a very similar brain. And I think I'd be correct in saying that, like me, finding more to disagree with doesn't make you feel bad or anything? I actually find it really liberating.

 

[Kean]

This is why I love you, Kean. Because we have a very similar brain. And I think I'd be correct in saying that, like me, finding more to disagree with doesn't make you feel bad or anything? I actually find it really liberating.

Brain twins!

I certainly find it eye opening. I feel that sometimes I accepted absolutely everything that the show and producers fed me. I watched the show as a teenager and I took so much from it. Now though, as a twenty-something, watching the show usually results in glaring holes of frustration and dismay.

While that isn't the funnest thing ever, it does make me think and re-evaluate my thoughts on the show.

 

[NL197]

I'm butting in here, but I'm just wondering, what exactly is wrong with any of this behaviour? Where is it said that people are required to enjoy this show and its characters in any particular way? Whatever reason some have for liking or disliking an aspect of the show(s) is very much their business and more importantly, they are very much entitled to those preferences. No matter how ludicrous they may seem to others.

What's wrong is that it's hard to have a discussion when you know the other person you're talking to, depending on the "Shipping" they prefer, let that influence exactly what they like and dislike to the point where you pretty much know that anything you can say will hit that bias barrier.

-I can see the good and the bad in every single character of the show. I love them all for different reasons (although I don't care that much for Willow in the later seasons), and don't get how people can continually hate on any character.

Unfortunately "shipping" seems to be a big factor.

I see your point, but I think the harsh tone you have in this post is very unnecessary. I haven't come across any Buffy fans other than here, but I have always found that people here respect each other no matter who they 'ship or not. It's all in good fun and doesn't usually lead to the either or mentality you're talking about. Take me for example, I like Spuffy, but that doesn't mean I don't see the good in Bangel.

Of course it's a harsh tone. That's just how much the issue of the extremes bothers me. As I said, it seems to be everywhere in Buffyverse fandom. I am by no means a judge of tone. I mean that literally - I can't see it. Unless it's someone saying "shut up and get lost", which is obvious, then I can't see it. Never could.

Also, I think it's totally uncalled for and rude of you to say that the shipping words are "unbelievably stupid" when you obviously must have seen that a lot of people use them here. Why can't we? It's just a fun way to talk about two peoples relationship in the show. Think about how you express yourself, you might hurt peoples feelings.

Again, people use those terms everywhere. Have for years. It's not in any way limited to this board at all. far, far from it. Of course people will continue to use them and have fun with them. It won't change what I think of them. I just don't use them. As for other hurting other's feelings, I really don't see how that could happen because I think a word like "Spuffy" or "Cangel" is stupid. If they are just fun to use, then maybe people aren't placing any real emphasis on them and take them to be just that - fun. I just took them to be an easier, faster way of typing their names out of convenience, not some deep emotional connection to the faux-words themselves.

And people who skip some episodes while rewatching, what's wrong with it? I sometimes skip to, because I feel sick seeing Buffy and Spike having sex on the balcony in The Bronze. Is that wrong? I don't like it, and I would much rather skip that episode and watch the next one, then watching it over and over again.

Skipping episodes you don't like isn't what I'm talking about. If you don't like a Buffy/Spike episode because you don't like it, that's one thing. If you don't like a Buffy / Spike episode because you prefer Buffy / Angel, that's the extreme I mean. One shouldn't have to do with the other, but it seems like it does all to much.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Why are those people not fans? Because they don't like everything about the shows? because they find some aspects offensive?

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

If that is the case then I'm not a fan.

No, I didn't mean it like that. I just think it's little too much to skip almost one part of the show, like half of it, only because it has Bangel in it. It's little bit too much if one Spuffy skips first 3 seasons only because Bangel is in them.. first 3 seasons are a lot more then just Bangel, and I don't consider that person a fan of a show, just a fan of one ship.

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 PM ----------

Skipping episodes you don't like isn't what I'm talking about. If you don't like a Buffy/Spike episode because you don't like it, that's one thing. If you don't like a Buffy / Spike episode because you prefer Buffy / Angel, that's the extreme I mean. One shouldn't have to do with the other, but it seems like it does all to much.

Well, that's the same thing, isn't it?
Let's say we have a Spuffy fan, and Bangel orianted episode. Of course that person is not going to like it because it's Bangel orianted.. probably because a Spuffy fan doesn't see anything beautiful in Bangel. Some goes for Bangel fans and Spuffy episode. But that doesn't mean a fan will skip the whole season..

 

[Flannen]

Brain twins!

I certainly find it eye opening. I feel that sometimes I accepted absolutely everything that the show and producers fed me. I watched the show as a teenager and I took so much from it. Now though, as a twenty-something, watching the show usually results in glaring holes of frustration and dismay.

While that isn't the funnest thing ever, it does make me think and re-evaluate my thoughts on the show.

I just kinda had a squee moment reading that middle bit. I was exactly the same. I lapped up everything from the show when I was younger and now that I can watch with the eye that I do now, it makes me feel better to not just be a drone that acts like it's a perfect show and has never done anything wrong, if that makes sense?

As for skipping parts of the show, whenever I decide to watch Buffy it will always be 1, 2 or 3. I really have little to no desire to watch the other seasons, apart from 4 maybe, but that's purely because, as I said, past season 4 it seriously lacks what I loved about it. All the things about its campness and self awareness and the way it doesn't take itself too seriously (the reasons I love it) I just don't see in the later seasons and thus I don't enjoy it as much.

 

[Kean]

What's wrong is that it's hard to have a discussion when you know the other person you're talking to, depending on the "Shipping" they prefer, let that influence exactly what they like and dislike to the point where you pretty much know that anything you can say will hit that bias barrier.

How do you know that is what is happening? You are making a big assumption there.

You are a working off a pretty big bias yourself though aren't you? Discrediting every shipper because you think they can't see past their ship.

Am I biased? Absolutely. But I defy you to find a fan, shipper or not, who isn't biased about one aspect of these shows or another.

 

[Washburne]

What's wrong is that it's hard to have a discussion when you know the other person you're talking to, depending on the "Shipping" they prefer, let that influence exactly what they like and dislike to the point where you pretty much know that anything you can say will hit that bias barrier.

But that isn't exclusive to shipping is it? It might be annoying (I agree) but couldn't the same be said for single characters? You're biased one way or another if you have any feelings for a character. I can only go by what I've experienced on this board since I haven't been elsewhere but during the years I've been here feelings towards characters and not relationships have been an bigger issue.

 

[Kean]

it makes me feel better to not just be a drone that acts like it's a perfect show and has never done anything wrong, if that makes sense?

THIS. A thousand times this.

There are issues I think the shows failed shamefully at. I'm sure you can guess at least half of them! 😉 But I would rather be aware of these failings than be blissfully ignorant of them and think it was all rosy.

 

[NL197]

How do you know that is what is happening? You are making a big assumption there.

You are a working off a pretty big bias yourself though aren't you? Discrediting every shipper because you think they can't see past their ship.

Am I biased? Absolutely. But I defy you to find a fan, shipper or not, who isn't biased about one aspect of these shows or another.

Of course every fan has preferences. All I have to do is what everyone else is doing which is reading threads and responses often reveal the bias based on that relationship they follow. Sometimes its an issue, sometimes it isn't. The most popular seems to be Spike and Buffy / Buffy and Angel and the bias that exists there can really rear its head and yes I think some people don't see past it, or to use your word - discredit - something based on their ship bias.

You and I and everyone else here knows that's it's not everyone who does it. I'm reading this forum just as you are.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Why are those people not fans? Because they don't like everything about the shows? because they find some aspects offensive?

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

If that is the case then I'm not a fan.

I agree with you Kean. I mean, I'm an example of it. When Angel came out I didn't watch mainly because I got into Buffy later and I was still too young but later on, I didn't watch the episodes because I kinda didn't wanna see Angel in his own show..let alone with Cordelia..without Buffy. Maybe that makes me ridiculous and stupid but hey...those characters brought feelings in me and I felt like I didn't wanna see Angel (the show) at that time. That's NOT the only reason I didn't watch it..I watched 3 or 4 episodes, up until IWRU and then I found myself not hooked up so I stopped. Now I chose to re-watch it again and finding myself more open to his own journey and I'm up to season 3. So...yeah,ships may make us a little over-passionate about it but if we don't bash or hurt other people's feelings, I don't get why it's so hateful. I ship Bangel A LOT but I also said I like some scenes with Buffy and Spike. No big. Over-generalizing is never good and I wouldn't say people who ship hard are not fans and I wouldn't say shipping is ridiculous but I respect all kinds of opinions so not trying to change your mind, offend you or anything.🙂