"When I Killed Him..."

[white avenger]

On a couple of occasions in future episodes in later seasons, Buffy makes the statement that she "killed" Angel and sent him to hell to save the world, and I've always wondered why nobody ever corrected her on that fact (or maybe it was just a mistake on the show that Joss never bothered to correct), There is no way that stabbing Angel in the chest with a sword could kill him, and if it had, there would not have been a body to send through the portal, thereby closing,
,

In fact, that sword just might have been the single most important thing in keeping him alive in the hell dimension at all, because it provided him with a weapon (his time in hell, just how long it was there, what he had to do to survive there, and the method of his escape would have made, in my opinion, a great story arc for either series, or a novel/comic book later, but, to my knowledge, was never addressed).


My question is, have I been wrong in thinking this for all this time, or was Joss wrong in the first place for doing it?

 

[nerd4hire]

Life and Death are puzzling concepts in the Buffyverse, because there are so many ways to come back, and forms to come back as.

According to Buffyverse terminology Angel is already dead, so how do you kill a dead guy.

From Buffy's perspective though I can see her thinking of herself as killing Angel by sending him to Hell.

 

[The Arcane]

I think she is talking about her intent, rather than her actual actions. As far as she knew at the moment she put the sword through Angel she was for all intents and purposes ending his existence. Whether that was by the act of using the sword or simply sending him to hell makes no difference. She was making the choice to "kill" him for the sake of saving the world. You could argue the technicalities all day but that is how the moment would have felt for her and so how she describes it.

 

[SpuffyisEternal]

Well by sending him to hell, she actually had killed him inside...at least that's my opinion on that little issue.

 

[Wicca-Who-Wont-a]

I can't really remember Buffy saying she killed angel, though i am sure she did, however I do remember her saying in the final episode of season five that she SACRIFICED angel to save the world, which she did.

 

[Cohen]

Season 7, Episode 5 "Selfless" there's a line or two of dialogue..let me find it..

ahh.. here it is:

I killed Angel! Do you even remember that? I would have given up everything I had to be with— I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life. And I put a sword through his heart because I had to.

 

[jesterjay]

Well let's see - she shoved a sword through her heart and sent him through to hell right? That was supposed to kill him, according to Giles - and she did it up. I think that the RockManic is right, she intending to kill him...uh...dead.

 

[Fallen Angelus]

From Buffy's perspective though I can see her thinking of herself as killing Angel by sending him to Hell.

That's how I've always seen it too. He was in a Hell dimension - good as dead, really.

 

[SpuffyisEternal]

Since he was connected with blood to Acatha I guess sending him to hell did actually kill him after thinking about it. It is hard to figure out stuff like that is supposed to be hidden within the lines but I guess it makes sense for him to die while being sent to hell

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Did Buffy kill Angel ? Was Buffy right to say that she killed him ?
Maybe her mum should have told her, or the school, or her watcher...
when you kill some-one it's a good idea to make sure that they are actually dead, just because he went to hell doesn't mean that he's dead, unless you go and make sure.
Personally I blame the school for not telling Buffy how to make sure if the person they've just stuck a sword into is dead or not, but then again.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Did Buffy kill Angel ? Was Buffy right to say that she killed him ?
Maybe her mum should have told her, or the school, or her watcher...
when you kill some-one it's a good idea to make sure that they are actually dead, just because he went to hell doesn't mean that he's dead, unless you go and make sure.
Personally I blame the school for not telling Buffy how to make sure if the person they've just stuck a sword into is dead or not, but then again.

That Snyder should really have had stabbing correctly in the curriculum, especially in Sunnydale!

Anyway, the point Buffy was making was that she killed Angel for herself. He was gone, and was not coming back (well.....). It was the intention that mattered. If she had needed to stake him to close the portal, that is what she would have done. That is the point.

She also killed Faith, and Ted. Although Faith survived and Ted was a robot, she intended to kill them, in that moment. She had the power to do it, she knew she had the power to do it, and she went ahead and did it.

On a side note, she didn't kill Anyanka in that episode Selfless. I always found that interesting that Anya(nka) wanted to die, and Buffy didn't kill her.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Yeh, naughty Snyder, not having how to stab correctly on the curriculum, bet he was afraid of big snake things as well [tee-hee].
Buffy was a vampire slayer, she knew how to kill a vampire, she knew what didn't kill a vampire. She would've known that sticking a metal object in a vampire's lower chest doesn't kill them.
Why did Buffy say she killed Angel when her training and experience would have told her she hadn't, did she feel as though she was verbally being trapped in a corner and she took the easy way out ?
It would seem [too me] that ' white avenger ' has come up with a continuity slip up.

 

[Blondie Bear]

He was, for all intents and purposes, dead. Okay, so his physical body was sucked into hell rather than dusted, but as far as anyone in Sunnydale was concerned, he was dead. Finis. Gone. And Buffy had caused it. Of course she would think (and say) that she killed him; you don't usually come back from Hell.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Buffy was a vampire slayer, she knew how to kill a vampire, she knew what didn't kill a vampire. She would've known that sticking a metal object in a vampire's lower chest doesn't kill them.
Why did Buffy say she killed Angel when her training and experience would have told her she hadn't, did she feel as though she was verbally being trapped in a corner and she took the easy way out ?

Ah, but where in her training does it say that sending a souled Vampire to hell isn't killing him. Isn't that what she considers death? The sending of the soul to (a) Heaven or (a) Hell? It wasn't the sword that she killed him with. That was merely a way of severing their connection with each other. (Symbolically, of course. It was only with the placing of the ring that she did it literally.)

 

[ILLYRIAN]

I can't remember, how many times did Buffy say she had killed Angel after she knew he was alive and not in hell ?
Angel had Angelus inside him according to the series, Angel and Angelus had the vampire inside, so by sending a demonic entity to hell, that would that kill it how ?
Admittedly the placement of the sword may not have made any difference to killing him, it was mentioned a few times that a vampires heart was the size of a walnut. To my way of thinking a vampires heart must have been bloody [no pun intended] massive considering where vampires were staked in the series.

 

[TabulaRasa]

I just thought once she punctured his heart the blood would spill and well he and the portal would go byebye. Just because he wasn't dusted doesn't mean he didn't die. I was sure that to close the portal all his blood needed to be shed, well probably by puncturing him the portal did suck all of his blood out, in some form or another.

And if you go to hell, you're a dead man. 🙂

 

[MLLamble]

I don't think that you're allowed to "fight off" things in hell. They jsut torment you. You can't be killed in hell, since it's not a material plane. Also, he did not escape. He was summoned back by the Bringers and the First Evil.

 

[SoBlind]

I can't really remember Buffy saying she killed angel, though i am sure she did, however I do remember her saying in the final episode of season five that she SACRIFICED angel to save the world, which she did.

Buffy season 3, 'Amends'
Angel: "Am I worth saving, huh? Am I a righteous man? The world wants me gone!"
Buffy: "And what about me? I love you so much. And i tried to make you go away. I killed you and it didn't help. And I hate it! I hate that it's so hard. And that you can hurt me so much."

 

[palabravampiress]

I think Buffy "killed" Angel by doing two things:

1. Sending his physical body out of our dimension "forever."
2. Sending his soul to Hell.

As far as Buffy knew at the time, no part of Angel -- neither his body nor his soul -- would ever return to the human, mortal realm again. To reference Anya, Angel would never drink pig's blood again. He would never laugh or lather his hair in gel or brood again. He was gone. I think "killed" is a pretty good way to describe doing that to someone.

 

[Kean]

I agree with every point PV made. Angel, body and soul was no longer part of this physical plane and the reason for that was Buffy running him through with her sword. I think it is more than fair to say she killed him. I mean who's to know what happened when Angel went through the portal, he very well could have been dusted? Doesn't really matter though because sticking the sword through his heart had the same effect of her staking him. He went to hell.