Which Buffy is your favorite?

[fauxindigo]

Of all the seasons which Buffy is your favorite? Do you identify more with the earlier teenage slayer or the more mature intense slayer?

I think I prefer S3 Buffy because she's still happy with her life but is not too green as a slayer.

What do you think?

I've been stuck in Season 5/6 Buffy for the past few years... lost my mom, lost the love of my life, somewhat spiraling out of control with sex and direction of my life... Not the best version of our girl to be stuck on. 😵

 

[thrasherpix]

@thrasherpix Just out of curiosity, where do you think it's misaligned? Idk about 'realistic' as it's still a supernatural show at the end of the day, but I don't usually use that word when thinking or talking about S6 myself. I think of S6 more as the season where all of the trauma of the past 5 years finally catches up to everyone. The handling of Willow's storyline feels the most After School Special to me personally, but that's more to do with the execution than the actual idea. Willow going off the rails re: magic completely works for me in terms of where she's been heading.

Quite a bit.

What comes to mind is that in season 2, Buffy quips "saving the world from vampires" and Joyce just rolls her eyes. She wouldn't be if she'd placed her in an institution for that (plus, Ted would know even if he had to dig up the info himself Moloch style, and bring it up when threatening her with institutionalization).

I have to headcanon this as the venom is altering Buffy's memories at multiple levels so that her memory of being institutionalized is as false as when she's actually in an institution in her delusion. But that's headcanon, not interpretation of what's shown. My impression is that they intended it as a "reveal" rather than retcon (or my headcanon).



Giles worries for Buffy, and also gets depressed when he's not active as a Watcher (other than a brief moment in s4) to the point that he and Xander consider making trouble for them to fight (though he dismisses that as unethical), and seems ecstatic when Buffy asks him to give her advanced training in s5.

It's also stated by multiple people that she's an anomaly because she has friends, and they even sing about this in OMWF before Giles decides now that Buffy is traumatized, which is revealed, that he must leave her to "grow up." (He even sends her off alone to save Dawn, which is just "what are you thinking" to me, though at least he changes his mind here for a little bit.)

That's not Giles, and it's Very out of character in my book to leave when Buffy needs him now more than ever, and even he realized there may be grave consequences to her being raised from the dead.

And I don't buy the "Buffy needs to grow up" (even without the trauma) anyway given the previous season where she handled Dawn, a funeral, and all her Slayer duties, that included this memorable scene (another emphasis on how her friends are necessary):

That's excellent leadership there, far beyond many her age and under less pressure.

And given that Buffy got him such a good deal with retroactive pay to go with his own private business, I do think Giles can be less grudging about helping out, or wagging a finger at Dawn (he's an expert at wagging fingers anyway, he'd probably get finger cramps if he stopped wagging it).

If the actor had to leave for awhile, fine, but they could've easily handled it different...whether it was laziness or character assassination to punish the actor for bailing for awhile isn't something I know, and neither would surprise me.



Those are just examples. I can give more retcons or incongruities , among other problems of season 6 that actually broke my suspension of disbelief at times (for the first time).


I do agree that Willow's magic addiction was very badly executed (and contradicts the tone of magic from earlier seasons more often than not), and they either should've had it as more of a drug she discovers for extra power (possibly even an Ethan Rayne who specifically cursed it) or made her more like Faith, drunk on her own power (which I believe was the original idea but the actress asked that it be changed), than as an addict. There's a lot they could've done with this, and I'm not sure which annoys me more, how it was executed, or the potential that was wasted had they done it differently.

(While the "magic crack" was later introduced, it just exacerbated it and not what I meant. I could mention what I dislike about Tara's argument over Willow trying to find Dawn through magic, though Willow was really being absurd when she had a locator spell with the magic light that she even used earlier in the season but apparently forgot she knows, or the writers hoped we'd forget.)

 

[Skeletor Rigby]

I have to headcanon this as the venom is altering Buffy's memories at multiple levels so that her memory of being institutionalized is as false as when she's actually in an institution in her delusion. But that's headcanon, not interpretation of what's shown. My impression is that they intended it as a "reveal" rather than retcon (or my headcanon).

I always just assumed it was something that happened to her in her Dawn-verse memories - we don't actually know what those are beyond when the show references it directly, so it frees the writers up quite a bit to introduce things like this without it actually really being a retcon. As for Ted, unless he was referenced post S5 (which I don't remember if he is?), he may not have even been in their lives at all in that version of events. That's how it works for me anyway 🙂.

As for Giles, his leaving actually really bothered me a lot too until it was resolved for me on one of my wonky backwards rewatches. The exchange between him and Maggie in S4 in A New Man spells out his philosophy re: raising children ("If you lead a child by the hand then they'll never find their own footing") and the first part of his dream in Restless is all about his ambivalence about being Buffy's Father Figure (which is actually a pretty consistent thread throughout the series). That's what appears to be the problem for him imo - it's not about being Buffy's Watcher (although I feel like the dream also introduces some ambivalence about that as he seems bored/over it) - as you point out, he seems depressed and a bit lost when he is no longer in that role, but of course he would be - in one way or another his entire life has revolved around being A Watcher and the impression I ultimately get is of someone who has accepted their duty and is performing it to the best of their ability, but that doesn't have much to do with personal desire. The only time we see that from Giles is with Jenny and later Olivia (v briefly until it's implied she's scared off by the events of Hush and the reality of Giles' life in Sunnydale) or when he starts playing gigs which is one of the only things we see him do that has absolutely nothing to do with being a Watcher. In S5 Buffy is giving him his purpose back (and I may be misremembering, but he was ready to leave before she does, so we know it's something he has considered and has been moving towards before), but when she dies... in a way, he has an opportunity - maybe for the first time in his life - to have a life of his own that's about what he wants for himself and even a chance to consider what that actually is. I think that first part of his dream sequence is super telling - on some level he thinks or knows that his being a Watcher and a father figure to Buffy has prevented him from having his own life and family - he may even have ambivalent feelings there, but that feeling is there. He loves Buffy like a father, but he's not her father. The problem in S6 is when Buffy starts explicitly relying on him as one and we see Giles really take note and absorb it. If the series is ultimately about growing up, a big part of that especially as you get older is realizing that your parents are fallible human beings and that sometimes they screw up and screw up big as Giles admits he did by going, so ultimately I'm ok with it as a plot point and I actually don't think it's out of character all things considered myself.

I took his firm decision to leave in Tabula Rasa, more as him making a decision one way or another instead of existing in this in-between phase which he is clearly uncomfortable with and being willing to let the chips fall where they may, but I think it's bc of the scene you posted that I think he thinks ultimately Buffy will be ok. She is strong, she is capable and she needs to find those reserves of strength she had. Do I think it was the right decision? Nope. Do I ultimately think it was a bit cruel considering where Buffy was? I do, but I also ultimately buy it bc of the trackable ambivalence and discomfort Giles has with being her father figure in the first place and to some degree I have sympathy for him as someone who has his own trauma that's never given space and I think we forget that he even has any bc he's The Adult. I think losing Buffy at the end of The Gift was huge for him personally and I could also buy his maybe on some level not wanting to be that emotionally invested again as a protective measure and this adding another possible layer to his leaving. That's more headcanon territory than interpretation (which can be a fine line anyway lol) but I think of Giles as another person, like Buffy, who keeps losing the people he loves and I can see his response to that as not being terribly different to hers in terms of starting to close himself off (which I'm going to look for specifically next time I watch S7). I can also see him justifying it to himself that he's not leaving Buffy alone to deal - she has her friends. He didn't foresee everyone drifting apart to the degree they do, but honestly, no one in the Scoobies has the insight they should by now re: how Buffy responds to trauma anyway imo (and that's a whooooole other tangent lol). Ultimately the Giles thing in S6 is in an I buy it but I don't like it place for me but it doesn't bother me anymore bc it feels like he's finally doing what he has been slowly moving towards doing since S4 (and I think maybe on some level wants to do). I think in his mind, Buffy doesn't really need him as her Watcher anymore in the way she did, and she needs to be the parent with Dawn and step into her place as the head of the household. She keeps trying to make Giles do that which is not actually on him to do and he seems to believe (and I think it's fair that he does) that she is either never going to take that place herself while he's there or that he'll give in and take on a role he never asked for or wanted and have to sacrifice the rest of his life (or at least a significant part of it) beyond the calling that has dictated it so far. It's just really sad all around for everyone, but my sympathies ultimately lie with the girl that got yanked out of heaven only to have everyone dump a bunch of bills in her lap and then go about their lives...

they either should've had it as more of a drug she discovers for extra power (possibly even an Ethan Rayne who specifically cursed it) or made her more like Faith, drunk on her own power (which I believe was the original idea but the actress asked that it be changed), than as an addict

I think both those things are there, but I think the addiction metaphor is multi-layered and the show doesn't do a great job of making each of those layers clear to us until the very end and it all just gets a little too muddy and lost with everything going on by that point and I think that's why it ultimately doesn't quite work - there's the addiction to the specific type of magic she gets into with Rack, which mirrors Buffy's addiction to Spike, and there's the addiction to power which imo Willow was always on track with as well as her willingness to blur lines of consent where magic is concerned which is also ultimately about power. The problem imo is the season seems to frame it wholesale as Magic being The Issue for Willow when it's ultimately her insecurity and shame driving her use of it that's the problem. That message is there, but it's talked about in the middle of the battle with Buffy at the very end of the season which isn't the best place for it imo. Idk, BTVS is usually better at this sort of thing so I think that's why it sticks out for so many folks, and it certainly does for me (and imo it's the weakest part of what I otherwise think is a pretty great season though I know that's not a popular opinion lol), but I do ultimately think it makes sense and I also think it's another instance where if Giles had been there things would have played out differently, and the idea of Magic Being The Problem would not have been where everyone seemed to land just based on how he responds to her at the top of 7. It's just sloppily done which is unfortunate bc in theory it's such a great and imo in-character journey for her at this point in the series. The After School Special part for me really comes in in the Rack scenes - I have total flashbacks to 'Scared Straight' videos where Judy smokes up for the first time on Friday and then is addicted to heroin by Sunday, goes through withdrawals on Monday and is avoiding cigarettes and alcohol forever by Tuesday. Even down to the cringey dialogue where she says something about being 'juiced' while the camera does a cheesy double exposure thing. Idk, lol, it's lame imo and Willow deserved better bc the story is there and it's a good one.

Anyway, please know I'm not really trying to argue anything in particular with the above lol - just offering some thoughts that may make those things easier to accept for anyone who has issues with them in particular bc I did too originally. I think every season has it's flaws and things in it that I personally have to work a little harder than I'd like to to buy, it's just more that I've had a lot of the same concerns (both the ones you've specifically mentioned and ones I've heard from others) and thus far have felt they were ultimately answered by the show (to my satisfaction at least) specifically when watching backwards and catching things I hadn't originally thought to look for, but as I always I like to say, YMMV 🙂.

@Stake fodder Ah! I forgot about that, but of course that would be the episode 🙂 - and I agree, we don't know what actually happened with him - just that they had met him and found out he was a robot so it could have gone any number of ways.

 

[telperion66]

Of all the seasons which Buffy is your favorite? Do you identify more with the earlier teenage slayer or the more mature intense slayer?

I think I prefer S3 Buffy because she's still happy with her life but is not too green as a slayer.

What do you think?

This is a great question. Well done for posting!

I actually don't dislike any incarnation of the Buffster in any of the seasons.

In season one, she's rather curvaceous and lively, whilst being extremely bright and bubbly in her demeanour. Although she's prettier to look at in season two, I think the version we see of her in season one is strong because she just seems so happy. She is great in season two as well of course, with a large part of her character therein being devoted to her relationship with Angel, which adds a different, yet welcome layer to her character from season one. These two seasons are probably my favourites, and you know what, its hard to choose between them!

 

[spikeverse]

My favorite Buffy is probably the one from season 7 she is more mature, beautiful, complex, responsible for everything to please what in second position I would put Buffy of season 5 she is funny and touching (a little guy with Spike but her makes her charm ^^) On the other hand, Buffy from season 1-3 especially 3 I can't stand her she is so melodramatic and her relationship with Angel I don't like

 

[TamsinValencia]

I like season 7 Buffy where she is beautiful, powerful, and mature.
Although I also like baby Buffy in season 1 and Buffy in season 6 where her inner battles prove how strong and resilient she is.

 

[TheXandyman]

I kind of like Buffy being commandery in season 7. Then again, hasn't she always been like that...? Sorry, that's not much of answer.

 

[TheXandyman]

Yeah, I guess she was.

 

[TamsinValencia]

Buffy as Faith was a standout favourite for me.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Kristy Swanson as the movie Buffy was the right combination of power and awareness and bold moves like stealing a biker's motorcycle were what I would expect. Also her killing of Amilyn (that took minutes, including the end credits) was one of the best scenes in the entire Buffyverse.

 

[TheAnnoyingOne]

Season 5 Buffy, that's when her character development was the best. She's vulnerable, yet more mature than she is in the older seasons. She has to accept her mother's death to achieve her transition to adulthood and embrace her role as the protector of the Key, even if she doesn't want to at first. She truly becomes her own person and turns into a fully accomplished hero, which is not only brilliantly shown when she shows the Council who's boss, but also when she makes the ultimate sacrifice to save an innocent. For the first time, she figures out what's the right thing to do on her own when even her mentor is clueless. Season 5 is a perfect example of badass Buffy done right, while season 7 is the perfect example of badass Buffy done wrong.