Who do you think was the worst friend in Season 6?

[ShiningStar]

i gotta vote Willow here, too. not only is she a selfish friend, but a bad girlfriend too. She plays with Tara to get what she wants...she's let her reliance on magic make her too lazy to actually have to invest in trying to work things out. then she abandons dawn when she goes to get her fix in... she makes terribly selfish and bad judgment calls throughout the whole season..

 

[black cat]

I think that above all and everyone the worst friend was Xander, because he claimed, almost always, himself as the " human without powers and feeling moral superior! He had a moment of lucidity, before the ritual, and he knows perfectly what was going and the risks! He was a hypocrite and, in my opinion, a coward in front of a " super powerfull witch"..... 🙁

But, in general, I think that poor Buffy had and will not have someone that you can call " friend"..... She will not ever able to be " in charge" of her life and destiny..... 🙁

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I don't think anyone can get the general "worst friend" award because they've all shown moments where they have supported someone.

Everybody dislikes Spike except Anya, likewise after Xander jilts Anya at the altar and everyone sides with Xander, only Spike take the time to socialise with Anya and listen to her. They're good friends to each other but bad to everybody else.

Xander reacted badly to Buffy's secret yet when Willow was about to destroy the world, Xander stood there and was there for her and used the power of friendship to get her to stop and grieve. He was a good friend to her.

Tara was snippy with Willow over seemingly little things but was there and non-judgemental when Buffy broke down over her relationship with Spike. She was a good friend to her.

Buffy completely ignored everybody but when Dawn's abandonment issues came to light, Buffy took the time to spend the evening with Dawn rather than rushing out the house after being stuck for days. She was a good friend to her.

 

[Mr Trick]

Well I'm defending Giles on this one because I think he made the right decision leaving Buffy. That's the only way she was going to learn her lession and take responsibilty for herself and Dawn.

It is Willow for me. As much as I love the character as a person she acted the worse of any Scoobies. But that's fine because the beauty of this show is that all the characters are flawed (because their human right?), and all screw up at some point (again because their human, and in the case of Willow, Buffy and Xander because they are young, sorry Giles😀). And of course the direction Willow takes in S6 adds something new to her character.

 

[Taake]

Well I'm defending Giles on this one because I think he made the right decision leaving Buffy. That's the only way she was going to learn her lession and take responsibilty for herself and Dawn.

Ah, we disagree again! So hard to digest this because there's also that thing, what's that thing again? You know that thing... oh right, love and support. So, leaving, not the only way. It's kind of like saying that Buffy's dad is awesome, because him abandoning his daughters helped them build character.

 

[Mr Trick]

Ah, we disagree again! So hard to digest this because there's also that thing, what's that thing again? You know that thing... oh right, love and support. So, leaving, not the only way. It's kind of like saying that Buffy's dad is awesome, because him abandoning his daughters helped them build character.

Its not the same at all for me. As far as we can see Hank was never there for Buffy certainly not at the important times in her life. Giles has been a constant support to her over the years and even helped her out with some money when she needed it. He was very supportive throughout the Dawn thing and of course when Buffy's mother died. What he did in season when leaving was take the hard decision which he felt would force Buffy into standing on her own two feet. I for one thing he was justifed in his actions. Not just that but I think it was proven over time that he did the right thing.

 

[Taake]

Its not the same at all for me. As far as we can see Hank was never there for Buffy certainly not at the important times in her life. Giles has been a constant support to her over the years and even helped her out with some money when she needed it. He was very supportive throughout the Dawn thing and of course when Buffy's mother died. What he did in season when leaving was take the hard decision which he felt would force Buffy into standing on her own two feet. I for one thing he was justifed in his actions. Not just that but I think it was proven over time that he did the right thing.

But that's what I mean. Time proved him right, arguably time proved Hank right as well. Buffy did build character. She did get over her depression. But it's not thanks to either of them.

Forcing Buffy to stand on her own two feet was essentially him saying - hey kid, you're like 20 now right? Really depressed? How about you get over that, save your own life, care and nurture a child, save the world and countless innocents on a daily basis and also support yourself and this giant house. Byeeee, I'll send you a pic of my horse!

Basically he was throwing water over someone who was drowning. The fact that she pulled herself out cannot be credited to his leaving. In fact, she didn't get better until after his return and support at the end of the season.

But I suppose we won't agree on this ever.

 

[Mr Trick]

But that's what I mean. Time proved him right, arguably time proved Hank right as well. Buffy did build character. She did get over her depression. But it's not thanks to either of them.

Forcing Buffy to stand on her own two feet was essentially him saying - hey kid, you're like 20 now right? Really depressed? How about you get over that, save your own life, care and nurture a child, save the world and countless innocents on a daily basis and also support yourself and this giant house. Byeeee, I'll send you a pic of my horse!

Basically he was throwing water over someone who was drowning. The fact that she pulled herself out cannot be credited to his leaving. In fact, she didn't get better until after his return and support at the end of the season.

But I suppose we won't agree on this ever.

No that's not what he was doing at all. The writers are far too smart to come up with something so black and white and narrow minded. Can't believe anyone could ever compare Giles to Hank. What an insult that is😉

 

[Taake]

Can't believe anyone could ever compare Giles to Hank. What an insult that is😉

It sure is, and that's what it's so dumb of them to let Giles leave,* making him Hank version 2.0, yet another absent father figure (but then this is Joss, who's suprised?).


*yes, the actor wanted out. I know. I'm talking storywise. Would've been better to kill him.

 

[Mr Trick]

It sure is, and that's what it's so dumb of them to let Giles leave,* making him Hank version 2.0, yet another absent father figure (but then this is Joss, who's suprised?).


*yes, the actor wanted out. I know. I'm talking storywise. Would've been better to kill him.

That's an interesting idea I'll admit. Then again I'm in favour of what they did, but I do see your point. I guess the reason they didn't was because they always intended to bring him back and I'm guessing that ASH himself probably told them that he would be back at some point. It made sense to have Giles in the final season of the show.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think they could've had had Giles called away on urgent business (perhaps rumourings of the First and Caleb killing potentials) and in the time he's gone, Buffy's life falls apart. For Giles to just walk out on Buffy does seem a little ooc. He should've said to her that she needs to deal with Dawn because he's not doing it for her.

 

[VisionGuy]

Giles leaving was always iffy to me cause in Buffy VS Dracula, in the beginning of season 5, he was going to leave because he felt Buffy didn't need him. But then in season 6, he left cause Buffy was relying on him too much. I get why he left, but I just think it was at the wrong time. If i were ripped out from heaven and had to claw my way out of my own grave, I would hope my father figure sticks around for more than 2 episodes.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Giles leaving was always iffy to me cause in Buffy VS Dracula, in the beginning of season 5, he was going to leave because he felt Buffy didn't need him. But then in season 6, he left cause Buffy was relying on him too much. I get why he left, but I just think it was at the wrong time. If i were ripped out from heaven and had to claw my way out of my own grave, I would hope my father figure sticks around for more than 2 episodes.

Agreed. You're right, it does seem like a contradiction. Obviously because ASH wanted time off, they had to remove Giles sharpish but they could've come up with a better reason to explain why he was leaving.

 

[VisionGuy]

Agreed. You're right, it does seem like a contradiction. Obviously because ASH wanted time off, they had to remove Giles sharpish but they could've come up with a better reason to explain why he was leaving.

It felt kind of out of character. Cause I really don't believe Giles would leave her at that moment. Maybe season 7 after she's past the whole coming back from the dead thing but not when she's overwhelmed and depressed and disoriented.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

It felt kind of out of character. Cause I really don't believe Giles would leave her at that moment. Maybe season 7 after she's past the whole coming back from the dead thing but not when she's overwhelmed and depressed and disoriented.

I agree. It would be a different story if Giles was getting over-involved and Buffy was pushing him away, but it seemed like she could have really done with his help during season 6. Spuffy may not have reached the darker depths it did.

 

[thrasherpix]

I'm asking because I'm wondering how it applies to Giles...

How "individualistic" are the British?

By individualistic I mean they believe everyone ultimately should stand on their own, and the paradigm (a relatively new one I might add, though popular before I was born) is that when you're 18 you're out the door (or you SHOULD be), to go to college or get a job or join the military. The extended family as a support network seems to be a strange one to most Americans, and even relying on immediate family in times of disaster and such is generally frowned upon.

And it's not just the young burdened with it, but even the elderly get tossed into old folks homes before they should be (and some really abusive) so that the family can get an early start on divvying up the goods (a friend of mine lost his place to live when the landlord he'd helped for over a decade was sent to an old folks home by his kids, and they instantly took control and gave my friend the minimum amount of time to get out so they could sell it, and this was his first experience of them as they'd left their dad to rot until they decided to take his stuff, but that does seem to be the American Way to me, and goes into what I mean by "individualism" or "every person for him/herself, and devil take the hindmost").

(As just a note, I'm speaking generally, of course. I come from an extended family that supports each other and pass down their houses through the generations, and the elderly are cared for as much as possible. My kin are dysfunctional in many ways, but this is one of the things they do right, IMO, even if I appreciate being more than a thousand miles away from them at the moment.)

Is it pretty much like this in England so that Giles could be expected to bail on Buffy as he did "for her own good" to make Buffy sink or swim? Because that struck me as a very American thing to do. I don't know if someone British could be expected to do the same. I mean would his behavior seem surprising or cold to others of the UK?

 

[Mr Trick]

Giles leaving was always iffy to me cause in Buffy VS Dracula, in the beginning of season 5, he was going to leave because he felt Buffy didn't need him. But then in season 6, he left cause Buffy was relying on him too much. I get why he left, but I just think it was at the wrong time. If i were ripped out from heaven and had to claw my way out of my own grave, I would hope my father figure sticks around for more than 2 episodes.

The way I see that though is that Buffy's needs were different. During S5 she was trying to define her role as the Slayer and to explore the roots of being a Slayer. It made sense that Giles play a role in that. Whereas in season 6 we were talking more every day adult problems and it had got to the point where Buffy was relieing on Giles too much. We are talking about issues that Buffy had to tackle on her own as an adult. If Giles stuck around then everytime there was a problem with Dawn, Buffy would just got to him and expect him to fix it. Or if she needed more money then Giles would be someone to fall back on for that. That's why I think he made the right call

 

[DeadlyDuo]

The way I see that though is that Buffy's needs were different. During S5 she was trying to define her role as the Slayer and to explore the roots of being a Slayer. It made sense that Giles play a role in that. Whereas in season 6 we were talking more every day adult problems and it had got to the point where Buffy was relieing on Giles too much. We are talking about issues that Buffy had to tackle on her own as an adult. If Giles stuck around then everytime there was a problem with Dawn, Buffy would just got to him and expect him to fix it. Or if she needed more money then Giles would be someone to fall back on for that. That's why I think he made the right call

I disagree. Considering Giles was supposed to be a father figure to Buffy, he should've been there to help her out. He could've done a gradual drawback to help Buffy stand on her own two feet, but all he did was pull the rug from out under her. Buffy needed support and Giles just took all that away.

 

[thetopher]

How "individualistic" are the British?

In my experience there are no societal 'expectations' on parents to keep their children after they've become 18+ but usually they offer something in the way of help to their kids (if they are in a position to do so).
Whether they choose to get jobs of their own straight out or go on to college, a lot of young people can rely on their parents for support; this support can be financial - 'the bank of Mum and Dad' is a common enough phrase in the UK- or helping them with childcare and the like.

Basically Giles' decision baffles me but not because I'm British, but because his reasoning seems faulty; he's just found out that Buffy has been traumatized by her death/coming back and needed emotional support. This is not Season 5 Buffy who could run a household, this is a Buffy who is hurting. Empathy should mean he would want to alleviate that any way he could, not walk away.
And even then he could've given her financial support of some kind, to help her out. And wouldn't the Watcher's Council have access to therapists who deal in all sorts of supernatural trauma (for watchers in the field more than slayers obviously) that could treat Buffy?

 

[Icarium]

Whereas in season 6 we were talking more every day adult problems and it had got to the point where Buffy was relieing on Giles too much.

That's what we were told, yes, but not at all what actually unfolded on the screen. And in any event, Giles was also paid a salary to help Buffy and had a moral responsibility to help Willow too. Instead he left right after Willow had clearly shown how much she had lost the plot. The notion of Giles being so weak-willed that Buffy could basically convince him to treat her like she is 13 is preposterous too. As is the notion that Buffy would really try that course of action, even the horribly written S6 Buffy. They might as well have hanged a sign "Well, Tony wants to go home, okay?".

Also, this whole "Buffy needs to stand on her own feet" thing relies on Buffy being strong enough to survive until that. We know that conveniently there weren't any really strong monsters of the week or Big Bads in S6 but Giles wasn't to know that. For all he knew, the likelihood of Buffy basically committing suicide by monster (you know as per Spike's stupid death wish talk... a broken clock and all that) was not to be ignored. Hell, even if we ignore the supernatural element completely, it's a really shitty thing to abandon a 20 year old who has no job, has to take care for her 14 year old sister and pay for the upkeep of the big house. Even more so when your actual job is helping her and she had recently gotten you reinstated with a raise.