Who earned his soul the most?

[Perny]

So here is something I've been wondering about for a bit. .
Here we go...
:thought😀id Angel deserve his soul more than Spike? Angelus had done a lot of naughty-bad-shame-on-you stuff, and really had the whole "I'm bad to the bone" image going on. when he got his sole, he got whimpy. He wasn't tough anymore, and ended up saving a lot of people. He made a lot of good deeds, and killed a lot of vamps.

Did Spike earn his soul more than Angel?
Spike also has a lot of corpses in the trunk. He even killed a couple of slayers, he did. Then Spike saved the world. Not because of the goodness in it, but because he saw a world of food. Spike later rocked the boat with Buffy, and then crossed a line.
Went to Africa, on his own will, and went through some really nasty things to get his soul back. Cos SHE deserved it. Spike got a Tweek like, and kinda weird. Suddenly the bleached vampo wasn't so tough anymore. But in the end he saved the world, and went to L.A where the crime never stops.


So who deserved his soul more?

The baddie, who went good, and fought evil to save the world and become human?
Or the baddie, who went good cos the women he loved deserved it?

 

[Lily]

this will almost definately turn into a Spike/Angel debate I'm sure 🙂 but for now

I have to say Angel, he fought hard to attone for his sins, he was a PATHETIC mess for what? near on a century, trying to come to terms with it, trying to fight his 'inner demons' and then he dedicated his life to the cause and to helping the slayer (and then loving the slayer) and then he gave up SO much to keep his soul (like no sexy time with the buffster)

Spike - even once he had a soul, still kinda enjoyed being a little evil (IMO) plus he was so neutered before the soul it sort of seemed like, ooh get a soul so Buffy can really love him...which is not a deserving reason!

 

[ItMustBeBunnies]

Spike saught his out, Angel got stuck with his. If it wasn't for those pesky gypsyes he never would have had one and never would have cared to. So initally Spike derserved it more, after that, what they did with their souls once they got em? Angel wimpered, moaned and rubbed rat filth on his face for 100 years before he got his crap together, Spike was insane in a basement for a couple of months then sprang back to life...so to speak. They both saved the world and they both earned the title of champion. The common reason for them becoming champions? their muse Buffy. Spike would never have turned to the good side if it weren't for her, probably wouldn't have gotten back in the game so quick without her and Angel decided to get off his butt and become someone after the first time he saw her. I wonder would Angel have ever become champion boy if it weren't for her? What do you guys think? Or was it fate for him to earn that soul and become a hero?...Lets not forget the shanshue (sp?) if it even is about him anyway (it would probably be a big let down if it weren't).

Well that was a rant! lol. Oh and for the record I have got big love for Angel too so all you Captin Forehead lovers cool your jets! lol.

 

[white avenger]

Technically, Spike was the only one to earn his soul. He went after it, he fought and suffered for it, and he earned it. Angel just finally killed the wrong girl to get his. Spike managed to handle the pain and shame of the realization of what he had done much more quickly because he had someone (Buffy, of course) to love, encourage, and believe in him. Angel only had Darla rejecting him and telling him that he was less than he had been, and just wrong in general.

As for who used his soul for the greatest good, at least within the confines of the show, I would have to say Angel, simply because he had his for the longest amount of time. As for the magnitude of the good that he did with his soul in a single act, Spike, I believe, would have to be the winner, for closing the hellmouth, and for the good that he did, at first reluctantly, it is true, but then willingly, even BEFORE he won his soul. Angel never did that.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

So who deserved his soul more?

The question was first who EARNED his soul the most and then who deserved it more. The first question, Spiked earned it as he fought for it. But Angel deserved his soul more, for, unlike Spike who was (relatively 'good') before getting a soul, Angel was not. Thus, the second answer is Angel deserved it more.

 

[Fake Shemp]

spike. spike and erm spike.

Angel didnt earn it... happened upon it and has done some good with it, but nope not earned it at all.

 

[DarkAvenger]

spike. spike and erm spike.

Angel didnt earn it... happened upon it and has done some good with it, but nope not earned it at all.

Right. Angel was cursed because he was BAD. he did NOTHING to get his soul back. sure he did a lot of good after that but that doesnt mean he eraned it!
Spike wanted this. he went after it. it's obvious spike earned his soul more.

Lily said:

ooh get a soul so Buffy can really love him...which is not a deserving reason!

and what's Angel's reason?? right, he doesnt have one because he didnt want his soul back. he just killed the wrong girl and was cursed!

So:

Who earned his soul the most?

Spike 😉

 

[white avenger]

In defense of Angel, and I can't believe that I really just said that, his being cursed with a soul and Spike's being fitted with a chip are both about the same thing: the point where each one had to stop becoming a predator and find another way to exist. At first, neither one willingly did anything productive with their un-lives, until each, in his own time, encountered the same catalyst: a small blond Slayer named Buffy summers. She is the thing that made them both WANT to be better men, she is the one who defended and encouraged them, and she is the first one to really love either of them in their entire vampire existence.

So, in a way, you might say that the one to earn the soul the greatest is neither Spike nor Angel, but Buffy. She earned it for both of them. Without her, Angel would still be chasing rats in an alley somewhere, and Spike would be cavorting around the world with dingbat Dru, still hunting his third Slayer.

 

[charmingslayer]

Spike did IMO.

Cause he went looking for his soul and fought for his and technically didn't need his.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

In my opinion the answer here is Spike. I mean, come on, what did Angel do for his soul? Bite a gypsy girl. And it wasn't even on purpose (the soul getting, obviously...that biting incidence was based pretty much on free will of his side (again, of course...the gypsy girl hardly wanted that...and omg, I'm starting to get random...sorry)), it was a curse.
Spike, on the other hand, went to seek his soul. You could say he had the chip, but okay, the chip didn't make him any less evil. Maybe he couldn't bite anymore, but he still had the chance to be evil, like in the episode 'Crush', where Drusilla kills for him so he can drink. So, the chip hindered him from directly hurting anyone, but it didn't turn him into a better person (or man...pire). He actually realized himself he needed to change. And he went through some very hard trials. So yea, he deserves it more.

 

[Atren]

Who earned soul most? Tough question, but given number of mistakes all did i guess from goodness point of view answer would be Tara 😉

 

[MSchett]

Honestly whats the point of starting these threads the Spike lovers are mean and pushy :tongue2:

But to be completely honest neither deserve there soul... but the world was better for them having it

On the flipside Angel went through alot more then Spike did...(100 years of hell/temption of Buffy) but Spike actually sought out his soul(whether he did it for Buffy or for good is beside the point)

I guess they pretty much even out though(I say Angels on top cuz i like him more 😉 )... I like them more without souls. There so much more interesting without them.

 

[T.I.P]

Spike only sought out his soul because of the initiative, so it wasnt totally all down to Spikes amazingness.
And i dont think its that big a deal he *saved the world and closed the hellmouth* because he didnt even know thats what he would be doing, he was pretty much in the same situation as everyone else down in the hellmouth.

 

[white avenger]

Spike only sought out his soul because of the initiative,

No, he went on a strict diet of pig's blood because of the Initiative. He earned his soul out of a desire to "Give the Slayer what she deserves:" him with a soul.

 

[EveryNiteISaveU]

In defense of Angel, and I can't believe that I really just said that, his being cursed with a soul and Spike's being fitted with a chip are both about the same thing: the point where each one had to stop becoming a predator and find another way to exist. At first, neither one willingly did anything productive with their un-lives, until each, in his own time, encountered the same catalyst: a small blond Slayer named Buffy summers. She is the thing that made them both WANT to be better men, she is the one who defended and encouraged them, and she is the first one to really love either of them in their entire vampire existence.

So, in a way, you might say that the one to earn the soul the greatest is neither Spike nor Angel, but Buffy. She earned it for both of them. Without her, Angel would still be chasing rats in an alley somewhere, and Spike would be cavorting around the world with dingbat Dru, still hunting his third Slayer.

couldnt have said it better myself, avenger!

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I think that neither of them really deserved or earned their souls. They weren't given to them because they were doing good things. They were either cursed upon them or given as a reward for completing a series of trials. Neither really deserved it.

Who worked for it the most? Spike. Who does a better job at atoning for his wrongs? Angel. Which now deserves to keep his soul? Both.

 

[Airam]

Spike only sought out his soul because of the initiative, so it wasnt totally all down to Spikes amazingness.
.

Well okay, but thats assuming that had Spike not gotten implanted with the chip he would have never grown fond of Buffy and thus would never have set down the path that led to the events that led him to seek out his soul.... which is, from what we knew of Spike pre-chip, probably on the side of most likely. But I think, just for a sec, it woulf be interesting to think of an alernate scenario. Would it really be so far fetched to entertain the idea that even without ever getting the chip Spike still might have made the character progression towards getting his soul? Like we've mentioned, the chip didn't force him to do good of any kind or stop doing evil. The chip only physically harnessed him from performing evil acts himself. I kinda think he felt a connection to Buffy from that moment he saw her dancing at The Bronze. He wanted to be studying her just for "the kill" but she got under his skin. He had to much fun "trying" to kill her to actually want her dead, then it would be over... I think its exactly that mentality that would have slowly turned him around. She intrigued the hell out of him. If you ask me his attempts at killing her were always half-assed, he was way better than those attempts. In Halloween he had the most easy, served on a platter opportunity and he reveled more on the tease and extending it out. Then of course came the truce to stop Angelus, to take Dru away granted, but shortly after that Drusilla herself dumped Spike because he kept on and on about Buffy... I don't know, it may be far-fetched, it just seemed like by the time he showed bac up in S4 he didn't really want to kill Buffy, it was just the same song and dance he felt he needed to be doing. Maybe he did need the chip as a catalyst, to make killing people not an option. But the what-if is a fun idea to entertain... I think the only thing that really would make this scenario truly impossible is that without the chip Buffy would never have been open to seeing the changes in him if he attempted to make them and she would not have been comfortable with him being alive and around so he would have gotten staked or left town again. But I think Spike definitely possesed the willpower to change all on his own, without the chip.

And i dont think its that big a deal he *saved the world and closed the hellmouth* because he didnt even know thats what he would be doing, he was pretty much in the same situation as everyone else down in the hellmouth.

Its true that he didn't know what the amulet would do but once it started doing it he could have said "bullocks this!" and bolted, yanked it off his neck and not gone through with it. He could have left with Buffy, the turok-han were done in with the initial rays. Buffy told him "you've done enough, you can still..." He could have gone with her, fight won but Sunnydale and hellmouth still in business. He chose to stay and close the hellmouth, he did save the world.

I wonder would Angel have ever become champion boy if it weren't for her? What do you guys think?

I really don't think he would have. I mean we saw it go down. He was a pathetic mess just barely surviving in the sewers and it wasn't until Whistler took him to see her that he started even considering fighting the good fight. What would have been his motivation otherwise?

 

[MSchett]

Would it really be so far fetched to entertain the idea that even without ever getting the chip Spike still might have made the character progression towards getting his soul?

Yes! Spike wouldve continued killing ppl which would have eventually led to a confrontation and one of them would die most likely Spike... Spike likes human blood with no guilt and no shock hed go kill ppl... lots harder to quit when theres no immediate consequences take smoking for example


hmmmm makes me think maybe smokers trying to quit should get chips that shock them when they try to smoke 😉

 

[fly on the wall]

Would it really be so far fetched to entertain the idea that even without ever getting the chip Spike still might have made the character progression towards getting his soul?

Yes.
Spike was neutered, humbled, force to do things he NEVER would have allowed himself to do pre-chip (help/fight beside the Scoobies, etc). Sure, Buffy intrigued him, but in a twisted sort of way. I think he would have ended up becoming obsessed until he killed her (or she would have killed him) if it wasn't for the chip. Even if he had fallen in love with her, without the chip I think he would have killed her to rid himself of those feelings. With the chip, he couldn't. The feelings could only grow.

Anyway, to answer the original question, I think Spike earned it more, but Angel deserved it more.

 

[Airam]

Blah! Okay, okay. I know, I know... I said it was far-fetched after all didn't I? 😛 Probably is a bit of wishful thinking. But this:

Spike was neutered, humbled, force to do things he NEVER would have allowed himself to do pre-chip (help/fight beside the Scoobies, etc).

I do not agree with. The chip did not force him to do things he wouldn't have allowed himself to do pre-chip, especially not to help/fight beside the scoobies. I have to reiterate that the ONLY thing the chip forced him to do was to not inflict physical harm on humans. The chip might have made him feel helpless but any descisions he made as to how to lead his life with the chip was all him. The chip did not hypnotize him into acting a certain way or doing any certain thing.