Who Loved Buffy More?

[Frketson]

Angel sacrificed being a human for her. In my book thats a larger sacrifice compared to getting a soul back.

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I didn't vote i just can't decide. I think Spike 'appeared' to be more in love with her but only because he gets obsessed like that, and he's more of a heart on his sleeve kinda guy so it seemed more obvious. But im kinda leaning towards Angel on this, buffys the only thing Angels ever love probably, and i think it meant more to him than it does with Spike, i mean Spike didn't even go back for

---------- Post added at 06:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 AM ----------

Buffy after he came back in Destiny, instead he did Harmony 😛 you didn't see Angel acting like that

 

[Summerlilly]

Spike loved Buffy the most.
Buffy loved Spike the most.

Vice Versa 🙂

No way! She did NOT love Spike more. Yes, she had a very special place for him in her heart and he saw her in a way Angel never did.....but really? Angel is Angel. I'm definetley a bangel lover. What more can I say?:hungry:

 

[Washburne]

I'm starting with who Buffy loved the most. Seems everyone judges from a certain point in her life. The night before the big fight. Maybe she loved Spike more at that point, maybe she didn't. But lets say she did. That isn't to say that at that precis moment she had the most feelings she had ever had for someone. Take "real" people for example. Just because you love one person (the most) at the age of 16, 30 or 50 it doesn't mean that it's the love of your life. Being with someone that makes you feel better is easy, sacrifice your love and walk away because it's the right thing to do is so much harder. Doesn't mean you love the person less. Just that you're incredibly strong to do it. There's no doubt in my mind that Buffy loved both of them very much but to me Angel is the love of her life.

As for who loved Buffy the most that one is even more difficult. It's easy to go with the fact that Spike got a soul for her while Angel was Angelus he was more intrested in killing her. So all of a sudden vampires are now equivalent to their human persona (having a soul)? Hasn't we've been told the whole show that vampires aren't the same as the person they once were? Looking the same and having the same memories yes, but not being the same. Vampire Spike loved Buffy more than Angelus but that wasn't the question was it? If I go back to the sacrificing part, Angel left since it was the thing to do while Spike died for her. One can think that dying would be seen as the "bigger" thing to do but I'm not sure. But even if it is, does anyone seriously believe that Angel wouldn't die for Buffy? I'm way torn in this issue and would say it's a tie. But if I have to chose one I think Spike (are you surprised?) might be the one that loved her the most.


edit: And for you newbies out ther that might think I'm a Bangel, I can only say that if you think that you're wrong. I can see good things in both Bangel and Spuffy but I am not a shipper of either. When it comes to Buffy and/or Angel I'm simlpy a Cangel. 😀

edit 2: And since I see it as a tie I didn't vote.

 

[Professor Walsh]

Is love a measureable entity? I believe that both Spike and Angel loved Buffy as strongly and as passionately as either of them could ever love anyone, though.

Spike shows a very clear need for someone to be devoted to all the way through the series. His mother, Drusilla, later Buffy. To love, to adore, to be someone for someone seems to be such a strong part of who he needs to be that it permeates even into his vampire life. In contrast, Angel is more of the stereotypical loner. While we see that there were mates and women in his past life, they seem to be more of a source of enjoyment than a source of companionship. This, too, permeates into Angelus' reality. He had fun when rampaging through the world with Darla, Drusilla and Spike, but if they had all been dusted he's have just as fun with some other brilliant vampires. Then, of course, came the curse, and with that the rat-eating extreme loner days.

Buffy changed a lot for both of them. That can't be denied, no matter which "˜ship you prefer. Angel clawed himself up from that deep pit of despair he'd allowed himself to wallow in ever since he unwillingly got his soul back, Spike went and got himself one. Both of these actions require strength, to me the question of which task is the greater holds no meaning. To compare them, in feelings felt, tears shed or torture survived, requires us to assume that they were the same when they began on their journeys.

So, who loved her the most? I don't know. I don't care. They both loved her enough to move me and make me enjoy their stories.
.

 

[Bob]

i said angel,
just because she never really gets over him, even when she's going out with spike.
she accually USES spike for love (or the sex 😉)

 

[Perny]

^But that has nothing to do with WHO of Angel and Spike loved Buffy the most.

 

[Roonblah]

I chose Angel. For me, love isn't always about to staying with the person. It's about having the strength to do what's best for the other person, regardless of how you personally feel (wish more parents would act that way). Despite still loving her after 100 years of hell, and admitting she's the only person he ever loved, he knew he was bad news for her so he walked away. It didn't turn out the way he hoped, because she still ended up with a dead guy that kept her in the "dark", but at the time, he thought he was doing the right thing. And let's face it, Buffy needs the light.

 

[white avenger]

Angel sacrificed being a human for her. In my book thats a larger sacrifice compared to getting a soul back.

I don't know if that was as much a sacrifice as it was a return to conditions that he was familiar with. Granted, he was afraid that Buffy would get hurt or even die protecting human Angel, whereas vampire Angel could take care of himself. There's a certain amount of illogic in that assumption, however. The Buffyverse abounds with quite capable vampire/demon fighters who are completely and totally 100% human. No super powers, no accelerated healing, no enhanced senses, and no immortality. Granted, Angel would have to devote at least a little time to developing the skills to fight as a human, but with his experience and knowledge (He trained CORDY to be an affective fighter, for crying out loud. Was he less capable than a former cheerleader with aspirations to be an actor?) he could be at least as good a fighter as Wes or Gunn. He would have even been able to fight in broad open daylight, something that a vampire, minus the Ring of Amara (which he had and destroyed, by the way, but that's another subject and an argument for another time). That in itself would be a tremendous plus.

Angel didn't just want to be a champion for good, he wanted to be THE champion, the most powerful fighter in the battle besides the Slayer. Why do you think that he was upset when he learned that Spike had regained his soul? He had honest, real competition for the position of Top Champion, and he didn't like it.

Angel gained, or REgained a lot more than he lost by rejecting his humanity. Buffy still loved him, she had no knowledge of what he had done and unless he himself spilled the beans, no one would ever even be able to tell him what a complete and utter fool he had been by doing it. That's not much of a sacrifice. At the most, it was just one more thing to brood about whenever he got around to it.

I wonder if it made Angel feel better that Buffy died protecting Dawn than if she had died protecting him.

 

[Frketson]

I don't know if that was as much a sacrifice as it was a return to conditions that he was familiar with. Granted, he was afraid that Buffy would get hurt or even die protecting human Angel, whereas vampire Angel could take care of himself. There's a certain amount of illogic in that assumption, however. The Buffyverse abounds with quite capable vampire/demon fighters who are completely and totally 100% human. No super powers, no accelerated healing, no enhanced senses, and no immortality. Granted, Angel would have to devote at least a little time to developing the skills to fight as a human, but with his experience and knowledge (He trained CORDY to be an affective fighter, for crying out loud. Was he less capable than a former cheerleader with aspirations to be an actor?) he could be at least as good a fighter as Wes or Gunn. He would have even been able to fight in broad open daylight, something that a vampire, minus the Ring of Amara (which he had and destroyed, by the way, but that's another subject and an argument for another time). That in itself would be a tremendous plus.

Angel didn't just want to be a champion for good, he wanted to be THE champion, the most powerful fighter in the battle besides the Slayer. Why do you think that he was upset when he learned that Spike had regained his soul? He had honest, real competition for the position of Top Champion, and he didn't like it.

Angel gained, or REgained a lot more than he lost by rejecting his humanity. Buffy still loved him, she had no knowledge of what he had done and unless he himself spilled the beans, no one would ever even be able to tell him what a complete and utter fool he had been by doing it. That's not much of a sacrifice. At the most, it was just one more thing to brood about whenever he got around to it.

I wonder if it made Angel feel better that Buffy died protecting Dawn than if she had died protecting him.

The main difference i see, is that Angel knew he could do so much more good if he stayed a vampire, he chose that for himself, he wants happiness but if it means not being able to protect his city, then forget about.

Spike wanted his soul to impress a chick.

 

[Perny]

^I disagree. Yes Spike wanted his soul, but not to impress her. To be worthy or her. In Spike's eyes it wasn't to impress her. Buffy would still be able to choose if she wanted him or not after, but having a soul meant a lot in this course. Spike knew that Buffy was afraid to love something soulless, and to make up for that he got his soul. Then Buffy would perhaps look at him in a different way. Suddenly see all the good he'd done for her, with her.

 

[Anabelle]

No way! She did NOT love Spike more. Yes, she had a very special place for him in her heart and he saw her in a way Angel never did.....but really? Angel is Angel. I'm definetley a bangel lover. What more can I say?:hungry:

I agree!

And I don't like Spike's opsesion to Buffy in season 6 (in sexual way). :thought:

 

[Perny]

^What makes you think that he only had a sexual obsession?

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I have no idea if it's even possible to messure who loves her more. There's different levels of love but how do you tell which fictional character was in love the most? I think there are qualified guesses, but personally I have no idea.

It's like, Spike got a soul, but Angel left Buffy so she could get her own life, Spike took care of Dawn when Buffy died while Angel went on "vacation".

Wait, are we comparing with or without souls? Because it's not that fair to Spike season 2-6 to compare with Angel when he has a soul.

Actually, make Spike loves Buffy less when he got a soul. After all, the soul might have changed him love-wise as well as conscious-wise. Who knows.

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Perny agrees: I think we are messuring them as a whole [/qoute]

Yeah, I have no idea how to do that. They both showed so much love for her, I just don't know how to messure.

 

[Anabelle]

^What makes you think that he only had a sexual obsession?

Buffy- Boot was made only for sex, or I'm wrong? I don't know, but I have that impression. :drunk:

 

[Perny]

Buffy- Boot was made only for sex, or I'm wrong? I don't know, but I have that impression. :drunk:

You mean Buffybot right? Well Spike had feelings for Buffy before he ordered the bot. Spike's feelings does go deeper than just sex, because just sex isn't a feeling. It's an urge. When Spike ordered the bot he had sex with it, I don't deny that. But we didn't see what he did with it besides that.
Also, do remember that Spike asked it to "Just be Buffy."

Just be Buffy. Spike wants Buffy as she is. And he wants more than a sexual relationship with her. What he also makes clear a few times in season 6.

 

[HABEAS CORPSES]

I think Angel loved buffy more. It just seemed to be a more real and mutual sort of thing going on there between them. It just sort of worked for me and it was highly more dramatic and emphasised on being a sort of true love a perfect happeiness sort of love. Well thats the way i saw it but the fact is most people would say spuffy was the best because it was a fan wanted relationship not anything to do with who loves who the most.

 

[Professor Walsh]

I say spuffy was the best because it was a fan wanted relationship not anything to do with who loves who the most.

I'd also say that the story between Spike and Buffy was the most interesting. The story of a young struggling girl who falls in love with an older, handsome man with a melancholic streak is hardly new. (That said, it's a classic story that never fails to move me.)

 

[Gideon]

This is a fascinating thread and makes for interesting responses.

I'm a self-proclaimed Bangel (inasmuch as an 18 year old guy can be a Bangel), but Spike is anomaly amongst vampires. Even as a soulless creature who, if Wesley is to be believed, is "second only to [Angelus]" in his brutality, he demonstrated a capacity for affection and love; the Judge in S2 observed that Spike and Drusilla cared greatly for one another, which is underlined repeatedly throughout both shows.

Spike's love for Buffy prompted him to pursue any means by which to reclaim his soul, to be worthy of her. That is a noble feat, particularly for a creature who, by definition, has no conscience. Could the chip and indoctrination from the Initiative played a factor? Possibly. But as per the commentary of "Destiny", Spike is a unique creature as far as vampires go.

On the other hand, Angel himself has went through numerous torturous experiences for Buffy's sake, and I would hope that the Spuffy fans are reminded of it.

To quote Giles in "Lies My Parents Told Me", Angel left Buffy because he knew that their relationship was ultimately destructive for her and that "Spike lacks such self awareness." Spike doesn't seem mature enough to separate himself from Buffy even though it would be in her best interest. And this is even after he turns into a killer, manipulated by the First.

Likewise, Angel also signed away his humanity for Buffy in "I Will Remember You", earning the admiration and respect of the Oracles. He also kept the memory of that perfect day with him forever.

The truth of the matter is that Angel demonstrates a selflessness far greater than Spike's own; only at the end did Spike take a leaf out of Angel's book.

So, in my humble opinion, it could quite frankly swing either way.

---------- Post added at 04:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------

Oh, and I forgot the other question that popped up: who did Buffy care for more?

The answer's pretty obvious IMHO: Angel.

Exhibit A, Buffy's own testimony in S7, "Helpless":

"I killed Angel! [...] I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life."

Exhibit B, Buffy's brief makeout session with Angel in "End of Days"/"Chosen", even after all the progression with Spike. Not to mention the Cookie Dough speech, where she all but flat out says she thinks about a future with Angel.

Exhibit C, Georges Jeanty, the man behind Buffy's season 8 comics:

Georges: I think it's obvious what Joss was trying to convey with that panel! When he wrote the script he said "Georges, this is probably the most graphic thing I've ever written so it'll be pretty detailed..." Not so much with Buffy Angel and Spike, but with all that was going on in the background! He wanted Buffy more toward Angel because she feels more for him, but in any event it was obvious the two of these guys were in her head!
I was just happy that I got it right the first couple of times. Joss saw the first version made some comments then saw the second and said perfect!
It was fun to do that page, and it's stuff like that that I feel you can get away with in comics. We can have a character come in for just a panel and not have to hassle with agents or wardrobe (as little as there is) and just do it.

Buffy clearly cares for Spike, but it's nothing compared to what she feels for Angel.

Apparently even Joss thinks so.

 

[Jersh]

It was definitely Spike, no doubt about it.