Who Loved Buffy More?

[Willow-Tree]

I think its kinda unfair to say that just because Angel moved on to experiencing relationships with other females means he loved Buffy any less than Spike. Or, for that matter that because Spike wouldn't let go, he loved her any more than Angel did.

Just because you can't let go of someone and continue to follow them around when you know you're not getting anywhere, can sometimes suggest a lot more about obsession and desperation than love itself.

Angel had to face facts that during the seven seasons of Buffy and the five of AtS, there was a not a time when it was right for him and Buffy to be together. So what should have done? Spent all that time moping and brooding over her? Cos I get the impression that if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was Angel who had never moved on and behaved like Spike did, then he'd be slated for it; considering Angel already gets a lot of stick for being 'broody' and 'boring' etc...

And I still argue with the notion that Spike got a soul for her. He got a soul for himself. It was selfish and about him, not her.

Okay. Angel DID move on, I'm sad to say. He developed feelings for Cordelia, and vice versa. I honestly think the relationship would have developed farther than it did, had Cordy not died. And I know Angel sometimes make a bigger deal out of Buffy than anyone else, but Buffy was also Angel's first true love, and that's a big deal. Cordy was his "adult" love, per say. Darla and him were more in lust, than love, and the only time he expressed any remote human interest her was in the Season 2 episode of Angel, "The Trial" when he risked his life to save her from certain death.

Spike died for Buffy. There is nothing more thoughtful and loving than to DIE in order to save a person you love. Sure, all of those other people would have died too, but did Spike honestly care about them? It's not like it would have been his fault had he not done anything. But he did, because he wanted Buffy to live.

 

[IllyriaEcho]

Angel and Spike would do anything they could to help Buffy if she was in need. Both of them will always hold a special place in their non-beating hearts for her whether they've moved onto another relationship or not. So in the end, they both will love her till the end no matter what happens.

Ahhh love, such a complex beast! 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I was thinking.Let's say the season 7 is not the end of the show.Spike is dead ofc.Should Buffy mourn over Spike or should she be with Angel?I know we have comincs but that plot I just don't accept.But I do know I sure love that Bangel part.All over again.

 

[Angelic Slayer]

Well the Bangel fans seem to be a little out-numbered here, but all the same I also think that Angel had stronger feelings for Buffy in the end.

Not to say that Spike wasn't in love with her, obviously since he went to get a soul for her there were strong feelings involved. But he came back to Sunnydale in Season 7, hoping to make amends and win Buffy's love. Angel, on the other hand, despite how strongly he felt about Buffy (and vice versa) he still left Sunnydale. He loved her enough to disregard his own feelings for her and leave her behind to grow into the person she was meant to become. He loved her so much that he put her interests and well-being before his own, and was willing to give up her companionship to hopefully make her life better.

Spike, even after what happened in "Seeing Red" still came back to Sunnydale. He was willing to put Buffy through the pain of seeing him again because he wanted to be with her so badly. And in such an unstable condition mentally, he was willing to put her and others at risk in order to be closer to her (whereas when Angel was being tourmented by the first in Season 3, he was willing to take his own life rather than put Buffy and her loved ones in danger).

I'm not saying that Spike didn't have feelings for Buffy, or that they were not strong ones. But there's an old saying that goes something like "If you love somebody, let them go. If they return, they were always yours. If they don't, they never were”. Spike loved Buffy, but put his fear of not being with her before her own well-being. Angel let her go, move on, and live her own life. He was willing to risk never being with her again in exchange for her living a happy life-- and that's huge. I think it shows that he felt more for Buffy than just an intense infatuation, that he loved her on a deeper level than perhaps Spike did. That's what I think, anyway 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Angelic Slayer well said. I like to see Bangel fans around here, there are not much of us left. You know I know why Angel left, but I never accepted it. Just like her, his reasons was understanding, but to painful. I cried so much, I still cry on that episode. I think I'll never stop crying, because to see him leaving all over again is to painful. But he did that for her, and I think he never moved on, Buffy part was always with him.

 

[Misty]

We all have our opinions. Who loved her more or who she loved more? I am Bangel fan because I am a true romantic and whole this thing with Spike was creepy for me. And some of you have this theory that Spike loved her more because he got a soul for her. Let's look at this one more time. If Spike didn't had that chip in his head he would never spend so much time with her and he would never fall in love with her. He never gave up on her but I think she needed a break. Every time Buffy slept with a guy (Parker and Riley) she waked up all scared because Angel wasn't there when she waked up. He left. He left twice. Because that was wright thing to do. Let's face it..we'll never agree who loved her more.

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------



I think Spike was there for here when she got back from heaven.He was the one thing that was close to her.But when she got back,when Angel called,she went.She left all behind her and left to meet him.Our first love.That is nice.But I think Angel is much much more.You know she is not like you and me.She is one special girl and he is one special dead boy.I mean look at her..she is the slayer,the chosen one,she killed the man she love and then he returned from hell.He returned,saved her life and then hugged her.Angel is Angel..not her first boyfriend,he is love of her life.

I also disagree with you on this. So you think that Spike wouldn't be around Buffy if he didn't have a chip, but yet Angel would if he didn't have a soul? I think you're being alittle unfair with Spike, because when he didn't have a chip or soul, he was acting no different than Angel did when Angel lost his soul. And when Angel first returned from Hell, he didn't save her. Also, when she woke up everytime she slept with Parker or Riley, she wasn't scared because Angel wasn't there, she was scared because they weren't there and that she thought that the same thing that happened to Angel might have happened to them.

 

[Flannen]

^Although I agree with you on most of what you've said here, Angel did save her after he returned from Hell. I think PB is referring to Angel saving Buffy from Pete, in which, yes he did save her life, or at least helped.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I also disagree with you on this. So you think that Spike wouldn't be around Buffy if he didn't have a chip, but yet Angel would if he didn't have a soul? I think you're being alittle unfair with Spike, because when he didn't have a chip or soul, he was acting no different than Angel did when Angel lost his soul. And when Angel first returned from Hell, he didn't save her. Also, when she woke up everytime she slept with Parker or Riley, she wasn't scared because Angel wasn't there, she was scared because they weren't there and that she thought that the same thing that happened to Angel might have happened to them.

I think you didn't understand me. I never said that Angel would be around her if he didn't have a soul. If Angelus was the big bad from the begining, I think he would be obsessed with Buffy like he was with many girls over the years. But I do think if Spike never got that chip, he would still trying to find a way to destroy her. But he did get that chip, spent some time with her, and saw something wonderful in her.. and I can respect that. About saving part Flanned said, I was talking about Pete, and that thing with Parker and Riley, I never said she was scared because Angel wasn't there, she was scared because when she first slept with Angel, when she woke up, he wasn't there. And when she woke up after sleeping with Parker he wasn't there and you could see on her face that she was scared. And then she woke up after sleeping with Riley, he wasn't there, she turned back and there he was - and then she realized that everything will be ok 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Totally agree with that! Spike died for Buffy!

I guess we'll have to agree we disagree. I'm OK with that.

I don't think Spike died just for Buffy. He died for the world. He allowed himself to burn down there in the Hellmouth to save the world, not just her.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I agree with you Joan. He belived that he was Champion, and he died as one.. he felt his soul, and he knew what he had to do.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I don't think Spike died just for Buffy. He died for the world. He allowed himself to burn down there in the Hellmouth to save the world, not just her. The opportunity presented itself where he could really make a difference and redeem himself for his past actions - and he took it. He didn't hesitate or look back. He threw himself into the fray. For me, that makes him a true hero.

 

[ubi4soft]

I don't think Spike died just for Buffy. He died for the world. He allowed himself to burn down there in the Hellmouth to save the world, not just her. The opportunity presented itself where he could really make a difference and redeem himself for his past actions - and he took it. He didn't hesitate or look back. He threw himself into the fray. For me, that makes him a true hero.

The Chosen battle it was Buffy's battle. Spike offered to leave previously, but Buffy didn't let him. He stayed for her, he went into the cave to support her, he clearly did not believe that Buffy loved him, so what better else to do than die as a champion and leave Buffy a good memory of him saving the world?

In AtS S5, Spike finally choose his battles (because is the right thing to do)

 

[tvnerdgirl]

In terms of the actual question of 'who loved her more' I don't think it's a fair question. I have read arguments on both sides of the table saying that Spike loved her more because he went out and got a sould for her, trying to be a better man, and then arguments saying that Angel loved her more because he was strong enough to walk away rather than stay and keep hurting her.

Problem is I think it all boils down to the fact that both of these men are VERY different and view love very differently. Spike was unique in terms of a vampire as he was able to love without a soul (and we had seen that with Drusilla long before he fell for Buffy. I firmly believe that he loved Drusilla as well). He was a romantic almost in every sense of the word. People say that Buffy and Angel's relationship was 'immature' and 'high school-y' but honestly when it comes to relationships I think Spike had a heck of a lot of growing up to do as well (which he did as things with Buffy progressed).

Do I think he loved her? Yes, absolutely I do. But I won't say he loved her 'the most' because to him, the only way to prove to her that he loved her was to go out and get a soul so that he could show her he was a better man. That was what he thought he needed to do to show how much he loved her.

Angel on the other hand felt the best way to show her that he loved her was to walk away from a relationship that was only hitting a brick wall repeatedly. The comments about their relationship being 'high schooly' I believe are false. As I have said before it does start out that way, but both of them mature very quickly. I think it's unfair to imply that just because a relationship begins in high school that it means the love is somehow 'not real'. My brother and his wife have been together since he was 15 years old. They now have a four year old and a 6 month old. They are very much still together...but it isn't the same relationship...obviously both parties have matured and grown together.

If it sounds like I am arguing that Angel loved her more...I'm not. Despite the fact that I am a Bangel shipper, I don't necessarily believe that Angel loved her more...just differently. I think Angel in terms of romantic relationships was at a more mature place in his life. His realization was that rather than do what was best for his heart (which would be staying with Buffy) he needed to do what was best not only for her, but for him as well. It was only hurting both of them for him to stay.

Both did things for her that they felt showed the depth of their love for her. Obviously it's all in how OTHERS interpret those actions that determines who you think loved her more. The actions themselves however both came from a place of love...so I don't think I can answer the question.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Well said tvnerdgirl. I'm a Bangel fan too, but I dare to say that he loved her more. I don't say Spike didn't loved her, I think he loved her very much. But one night he woke up and he figured out that he loves her, and he was all why you don't love me? Like he didn't understand he has to earn her love. And it really bugs me when people say Bangel is immature because they are like high school love. My parents are together since they were 16. And when Buffy say to Spike in Chosen "I love you" and he reply with "No you don't, but thanks for saying it".. I always saw that like he realized she doesn't love him, that is a long way from love. She says to Angel that Spike is in her heart, and I know Spike knows that, but I think Spike realize she didn't loved him that much, because he know what love is, he had a special thing with Dru. But that is just a way I see it 🙂

 

[Misty]

I'm just going to jump in here. I think Spike loved Buffy more then Angel. Spike went through so much to try to get as close to Buffy as he could. He went and got a soul for her. He even accepted that she didn't love him and still continued to stay by her side to assist her in any way he could. Granted he did get a bit obsessed at one point and took it too far. But he really truly loved her. Angel moved onto Cordelia and then to the Werewolf girl in season 5. Obviously he didn't love her enough if he was able to move on. Spike never moved on from Buffy. He was still set on trying to be with her.

I so agree with you! Also, shortly after he left Buffy, he became interested in Darla again too.

 

[Emzzie]

Spike all the way! While he did not die for her, he did lose his soul for her. Angel ran away because he was scared of having a moment of pure happiness and if Spike had been in that situation, I don't think he would have done that.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Angel did not ran away. He left because he belived that was right thing to do, he loved her to much and he didn't want to play the game where Buffy would get hurt again. When he came to the Prom she said that she understand, and when Faith shot him he said to Willow, when he thought she is Buffy, that she can't leave her, so we saw how that was difficult for him. When Willow asked Buffy in the end of S3 is she ok, she said she is, because she understood why he left, but she didn't made her peace with that as we see in S4 The Freshman, when she thinks guy in the bar is Angel. Angel did not ran away!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree. Angel did not "run away". He did the only thing he could, and it was the right choice. He couldn't give Buffy what she deserved. With the curse intact, he couldn't give himself physically to her like she wanted.

As for who loved her more? Spike, obviously. He got a soul and died for her!

Just kidding. They both love her, for God's sake. We have enough competition between the two characters without the fans battling over their merits as well!

 

[Tranquillity]

I don't get into the 'who loved who more' arguments - What is the unit measurment for love anyway?

She loved them both. I think she still loves them both.

 

[Eleftheria]

Angel loved her truly and deeply,and as we saw in IWRY he gave up the most valuable thing he could ever have(his chance to be human again) to protect her...Angel experienced moment of TRUE,PURE happiness just because he was with Buffy...and i could never call Bangel high school romance...because it is clear in every season of BtVs that Angel is still there in Buffy's mind and in her heart...and in her hardest moments Angel comes back in Sunnydale just for her
(Angelus is not the same person as Angel for God's sake...but still he was obsessed with Buffy!)IMO BANGEL is eternal,real love!

and Spike...i am really not sure what he felt when he was soulless...was it satisfaction that he finally got Buffy,the vampire slayer, in his bed,was it an obsession,or maybe because he was in love with pain?A man that loves a woman never attempts to rape her...or humiliate her
When he got his soul back he may have loved her...and Buffy loved him back because he stood by her side many times...It is really amazing what Spike said in the end of "chosen"...he realised that Buffy cared very much for him...but love is sth very significant and serious...

that's just my opinion