who sired spike?

I think slayerangel explained it properly. It can be used to indicate the person that has actually turned you into a vampire, but it can also be used in a broader context to indicate people that have taught you what being a vampire means.
 
that's what joss said after fool for love,the ep that confuses everyone,...
ppl think passion has a mistake,how did angelus enter in giles's house if he hasn't been invited?,pp say that because they didn't watch giles inviting angel to his home,...so why should I belive Dru is SPike's sire if I didn't see her siring him?,she just bit him
 
Fans speculate that the invitation to Giles's home was an offscreen thing.

Dru is Spike's sire because she made him. Angelus is the other definition of a sire because he was Spike's mentor. And so said Joss.
 
Originally posted by slayerangel
Fans speculate that the invitation to Giles's home was an offscreen thing.
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well,Angelus could have sired Spike offscreen

Dru is Spike's sire because she made him. Angelus is the other definition of a sire because he was Spike's mentor. And so said Joss.
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Joss said that after Fool For Love,..he just wanted to save his ass,he knew they made a mistake,...in s2 Angelus seemed to be Spike's sire,..real sire,..not grandsire




''DRU''THEORY VS. ''ANGEL''THEORY

IT WAS DRU!!!
what Joss said
One of the principal pieces of evidence cited by supporters of the Dru-sired-Spike theory is Joss' frequent comments, in interviews and the like, that Dru was, in fact, Spike's sire.
VERSUS
IT WAS ANGEL!!! what Joss said
Joss is alleged, however, to have said the very opposite. James Marsters, at least, has claimed as much in the past.


IT WAS ANGEL!!!
"You were my Sire, man!"
The battle cry of Angel-sired-Spike supporters everywhere: "But he said so!" This comment, made by Spike in his first appearance on the show ("School Hard"), was followed by his referring to Angel as "me old Sire" in "In the Dark."
VERSUS
IT WAS DRU!!!
Well, uh, what I meant by that was...
So then Joss comes out with this "your sire's sire is still your sire" nonsense. Uh-huh. Sounds like a desperate attempt to cover your ass to me.


IT WAS DRU!!!
But... the interviews! The novels! The comics!
Before "Fool for Love," most the Dru-sired-Spike crowd's evidence came from here. Joss' comments during interviews, various BtVS comics, and novels such as "City Of" and "Pretty Maids All in a Row" pegged Dru as Spike's sire.
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IT WAS ANGEL!!!
Are not canon.
Sorry, but it's true. If you're gonna interpret something that happens on a TV show, you have to interpret it in terms of what happens on the show alone. If we didn't see it on screen, it doesn't count.


IT WAS ANGEL!!!
"He's barely 200..."
Up until the episode "The Initiative," you couldn't really argue for the Dru-siring theory. The numbers simply didn't add up. After all, the Watcher's diaries claimed that Spike was "barely 200," placing the date of his turning somewhere around 1800, and we had known since "Becoming" that Dru was sired in 1860.
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IT WAS DRU!!!
"I'm only 126!"
Then "The Initiative" came along, in which Spike claimed to be "only 126." By the time "Fool for Love" aired, he was 120. How the hell does Spike celebrate his birthday? Throw a handful of candles on the cake and pick a number? Sheesh.


IT WAS ANGEL!!!
"Dru couldn't sire a potato!"
This statement, as made by Avarice, expressed the sentiment of many Angel-Siring supporters who had been watching since "School Hard" and remember the weakened, confused, clearly insane creature of Season Two. Not only did she not have the strength to sire a childe, she didn't have the sense.
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IT WAS DRU!!!
And yet...
And yet... although we don't actually see her sire Sheila in "School Hard," it stands to reason that she did. Okay, yeah, it could have been Spike. But probably not. As for Dru's mental state, she certainly seemed to know what she was doing when she turned Darla.


IT WAS ANGEL!!!
We didn't see it!
We see her drink from poor little William in "Fool for Love;" we don't see him drink from her. No, really. I've heard this argument. I've read fics that swear by it. Good fics, in fact. That still doesn't make it a plausible theory.
VERSIS
IT WAS DRU!!!
Oh, come on.
Like the "But-Spike-could've- sired-Sheila" argument, this one is pretty much grasping at straws. Of course, knowing Joss, it could very well be true. Only time will tell.


IT WAS DRU!!!
Homoeroticism? On an 8 p.m. show? Yeah, right.
BtVS and Angel are both, of course, full of slashy-subtext goodness. But one male heartthrob biting another? Not so much. In fact, long before "Fool for Love," even the S/A 'shippers had accepted that we'd never see Angel sink those long, hard fangs into Spike's welcoming neck. ;o)
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IT WAS ANGEL!!!
"Precedent!" cry the slashers.
.There has been same-sex fang action before, of course. Angel and Penn, for instance. Dru and Sheila. Harmony and Willow. Vamp-Willow and Sandy. Spike and Ford. Dru and Darla... the difference being, all those nibblings were either a) not shown on screen or b) overtly homoerotic in a way that Spike and Angel will never be on prime-time television.


IT WAS DRU!!!
Then... why would Spike stay with Dru?
Some support the Dru-sired-Spike theory because it somehow "justifies" Spike's devotion to her. Clearly, they insist, his relationship with Dru is one of duty rather than affection. The implication is that Spike would never stay with a "nutcase" like her unless he had to. Truth be told, this argument is usually made by people who don't like Dru very much, and I don't have a lot patience with those types of people. In fact, as a die-hard Spike/Dru 'shipper, it just plain pisses me off.
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IT WAS ANGEL!!!
Why wouldn't Spike stay with Dru?
The aforementioned theory, frankly, cheapens the importance of Spike's devotion to Dru. Not only that, but it misinterprets the nature of both the Spike/Dru and Spike/Angel relationships. The Spike/Dru relationship has always been portrayed on the show- and in the majority of S/D fic- as romantic in nature, wheras Spike behaves more in a son-to-father way to Angel.


IT WAS DRU!!!
"Remind me again. Why don't we kill you?"
"How could Angel be the Sire?" cried the Dru-sired-Spike crowd after witnessing their brief interaction in "Fool for Love." "They didn't even like each other." And if you watch FFL, that seems to be the case. Angelus seems to barely tolerate young William and never appears to accept him as part of their motley little crew.
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IT WAS ANGEL!!!
"I can't believe this. You Uncle Tom!"
.Even more annoying than Joss' inability to perform simple mathematics is his lack of continuity in portraying the relationship between two characters. If relations between the two were so strained, then why was Spike so exuberant to see Angel in "School Hard," so angry to find out he was ensouled, and so happy when he lost his soul again? ::sigh::


IT WAS ANGEL!!!
Writing S/A
Most of the protests against Joss's rewriting of canon have come from the S/A 'shippers and the writers of S/A fic. Let's face it... those boys don't have a lot in common. Sharp pointy fangs, long flowing coats, Buffylust, a history of tormenting Slayers and shagging Dru... okay, so they have a few things in common. But they certainly aren't known for getting along, in any version of the Jossverse. In order to make S/A fic work- and oh, it's so much fun when it does- a connection between the two boys is needed. Most S/A writers find that the sire/childe relationship- a sick, twisted, delicious combination of idol-worship, parental affection, sex, love, and good old all-out obsession- does the trick nicely. So... the question remains- without the sire/childe bond, is there any hope for S/A fic? This remains to be seen, since the majority of S/A writers either a) deny that the events of "Fool for Love" ever occured or b) take the Post-Jossian "the sire's sire is the sire and Angelus taught him everything he knows" approach. Frankly, writing S/A based on the kind of "relationship" we see in "Fool for Love" strikes me as next to impossible... but that remains to be seen.
VERSUS
IT WAS DRU!!!
Writing S/D
Although I'm a die-hard Spike/Dru 'shipper and I've been writing S/D for over a year, I've only recently ventured into the wild, wacky world of new-canon S/D. While S/A seems primarily based on the sire-childe bond, the new canon seems to only intensify Spike's devotion to Dru. "Fool for Love" indicated that Spike's attention, for most of his life as a vampire, was concentrated on Dru, without any distraction from a grandsire that he didn't seem to like much. It will be interesting to see how S/D fic canon develops in the light of the new canon.
 
No, he couldn't sire Spike offscreen because Drusilla[/U] sired Spike oncreen.

What you said is partly true: Joss said that after "What's My Line P2(?)" aired to cover up Spike callling Angel his sire in "School Hard" and Giles stating that a sire is the vampire who made you. They did not make a mistake in "Fool for Love," seeing as how it was stated in the crossover of both shows and Dru did sire Spike while Angel did also. As Joss explains it, there are two definitions. It's his world.
 
Originally posted by slayerangel
No, he couldn't sire Spike offscreen because Drusilla[/U] sired Spike oncreen.
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that's not true,..she bit him onscreen

foolove29.jpg


bite isn't sire,...maybe he didn't drink of her
 
Ok kiddies, we do know that Dru sired Spike ok ok, it is sooo obvious that Angelus did not sire him ok ok alrighty then. Just look at the eps involving Angelus and Spike in the flash backs sooo obvious and Joss said that Dru is the sire....ok alrighty glad we are getting things fixed up.
 
Allright so they didn't show Spike drinking Dru, but from Fool For Love we can nothing but conclude he must have. I can't believe we're even having a discussion on this.
 
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