Question Why did Spike not go to Buffy?

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I have my own beliefs, but I want to hear what everbody has to say. Do you think that he really just wanted her to remeber him as hero? That he didn't love her anymore(though I might yell at you if you believe that)? That he was scared? Discuss.
 
D
DrusillaRox
how very very brave you are. *looks out for Bangels and Spuffies*
We already have a thread like this somewhere, but I still want to answer :

Check the 9th episode of season 5 of Angel. Spike and Harmony talk, and Spike kinda tells Harm why he doesn't go for Buffy.
 
I'm sorry, I just don't believe that. Maybe that was part of it or what he was going to tell people but that's not what I believe.
 
Spike rarely lies when it comes to such a serious thing. I believe him.

Spike left Buffy as a hero, a man who sacrificed himself to save the world. Spike loves Buffy, and knowing that Buffy thinks of him as a hero, must be wonderful to him. Although not seeing her, he is happy about it, and if he showed up, things might be different.


There is no point in showing/starting the scenes where Spike says he wanna go for Buffy, then changes his mind, if it wasn't to explain why he didn't.
 
/me agrees but cant give you more karma

why wouldnt he wanna go out like that? i think he knows he would frak it all up if he went back and its better to be heroic than be with her, in a way.
 
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Perny
Well, I can give you karma.. :) KARMA
I've always considered the writing for Spike in this episode ('Harm's Way') somewhat flawed. The decision not to go to Buffy, because he wanted her to remember him as the hero he died as, just seems cowardly - and if there's one thing Spike isn't, imo, it's a coward. Also what a dumb cliche reason, anyway - why would Buffy be anything other than happy that Spike was alive? I understand why they did it though; they needed Spike to stay on the show and couldn't get SMG in for a guest starring role, so he had to decide against leaving somehow. Still, couldn't they have come up with something better? Why not have him say that he wanted to stay in LA to prove to himself that he could be a good person without Buffy's (direct) influence, or something along those lines? That, to me, seems much more in character for Spike.
Also, so silly that they didn't have Spike let Buffy know that he was alive. A phone call would have done it, or an off-screen rendezvous (much like Angel/Buffy in early s6) where Spike explained that he had things to do in LA (Shanshu, helping the helpless, apocalypse (or did they not know about that yet?), but would return to her when it was done (or not - not the point). The Spike we've come to know at this point would think he owed that to her, imo

Sorry for the rant, lol. It's just one of the few things that bug me about Angel S5.
 
Airam
Airam
I replied without reading through other responses first but obviously I SO hardcore agree with this! Great post!!!! :)
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Blair Waldorf-Bass
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Summerlilly
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The decision not to go to Buffy, because he wanted her to remember him as the hero he died as, just seems cowardly - and if there's one thing Spike isn't, imo, it's a coward.

No.. Spike isn't a coward, but Spike has this stupid thing, though guys, and most people often have: Pride.

I do believe Spike partially thinks that way because of Buffy, but also because of himself.
Spike may have been thinking that he wasn't a hero if he came back. He never intended to come back to the world, and he had gotten to terms with it. Accepted his fate: Die as a hero.
Now he is back, and he is defying what he had accepted. That would, in his own eyes, not make him a hero, unless he stayed away from the one girl he loved, so he might could even could die in some fight?
Who knows, maybe Spike had a deathwish. A tiny hope that another battle for good would kill him, so he once again could die a hero.

Do I make any sense, or is my brain just spitting out words in random order ? 🙂
 
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Blair Waldorf-Bass
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No.. Spike isn't a coward, but Spike has this stupid thing, though guys, and most people often have: Pride.

I do believe Spike partially thinks that way because of Buffy, but also because of himself.
Spike may have been thinking that he wasn't a hero if he came back. He never intended to come back to the world, and he had gotten to terms with it. Accepted his fate: Die as a hero.
Now he is back, and he is defying what he had accepted. That would, in his own eyes, not make him a hero, unless he stayed away from the one girl he loved, so he might could even could die in some fight?
Who knows, maybe Spike had a deathwish. A tiny hope that another battle for good would kill him, so he once again could die a hero.

Do I make any sense, or is my brain just spitting out words in random order ? 🙂

Don't worry, you do make sense, and I sort of get where you're coming from, but I just still think it seems like an odd thing for Spike to do (or rather not do), at least as it wasn't explored any further. To me, the scene just stank of lazy writing.
 
I actually just think Spike was scared. Harmony actually saw through Spike's macho act and they both gained insight. Harm worried about not mattering and the subtext is that, he wondered if their (his and Buffy's) relationship actually meant as much to her as it did to him. This in turn parallels his relationship with Harm. Spike treated her like crap and he was treated like crap by Buffy in Season 6. Even after everything he still had trouble believing she really loved him, which of course ties in with his words in Chosen and in TGIQ when he actually says he never had a shot with Buffy.
 
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Blair Waldorf-Bass
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Why not have him say that he wanted to stay in LA to prove to himself that he could be a good person without Buffy's (direct) influence, or something along those lines? That, to me, seems much more in character for Spike.

I always got the impression that this was the implied reasoning behind why he did stay. In the episode following Harm's way - Soul purpose- it is pretty clear that Spike is lost and directionless since he chose to cut himself off from Buffy. Lindsey accuses him of only being a good-guy in order to impress a woman, Angel accuses him of much the same thing in Destiny. So Of course he's got to prove to himself that he can be a hero without Buffy's influence. That is why I can believe that he would stay in LA. This is an extract of something I wrote about Harm's Way a while ago:

Spike: I was on my way. Had a boat ticket and all. Then I put a little thinking into it. A man can't go out in a bloody blaze of glory, savin' the world, and then show up 3 months later, tumbling off a cruise ship in the south of France. I mean, I'd love to, don't get me wrong, but, it's hard to top an exit like that … I expect Buffy would be happy enough to see me. It's just, I gave up my life for her, the world, and if I show up now, flesh and bone, my grand finale won't hold much weight. All of it... won't matter.

So Spike has fears and worries and for the first time ever we see them stand in the way of what he wants. Perhaps the soul also allows him to hear that little voice in the back of his head that cautions and stresses and vocalises fears and makes him think of all the reasons why he shouldn’t and all the things that could go wrong. Maybe the idea that Buffy would certainly remember him fondly is too precious to give up. Maybe those words spoken, those words denied in the Hellmouth are too terrifying to even contemplate. What if what she said was not true? What if it was? And so we discover, if we didn’t already know, that Spike is not all bravado. It’s all an act. He’s scared. Scared about seeing Buffy, worried that his sacrifice will be diminished in her eyes, unsure if he will be loved – and thus, this determines his underlying motivation for a good portion of the remainder of the series. Spike makes a conscious decision to stay away from Buffy and see what he can make of himself without her

Harmony can sympathise with the fear of not mattering but here we are shown the vast amount of distance that separates the souled and unsouled vampires. Spike is able to balm Harmony’s wounded sense of self worth by pointing out that she does matter because someone tried to frame her for murder; that becasue others are envious of her she matters. Yet the same explanation does not satisfy him. By his own logic, the fact that he mattered enough for someone to go to all the effort of retrieving the amulet, sending it to Angel and then re-corporialising him should have Spike feeling pretty pleased with himself. But it doesn’t. He wants to matter, not to an anonymous mass of envious co-workers, but to a blonde slayer somewhere in Europe and, one suspects, to a frequently grumpy grand-sire. He wants to matter for the right reasons and so, he stays. CHECKPOINT | Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel Exegesis

I have a much harder time believeing that he would never have contacted Buffy...he told Andrew he would and Spike is usually pretty good with the follow through. Once he made the Commitment to stay in LA after Fred's death there would be no reason not to contact her. I always assumed that there had been contact as in The Girl in Question Spike never said anything about seeing Buffy again and it just didn't ring true that he wouldn't pick up a phone. Yet in season 8 there is certainly a vibe that Buffy doesn't know he is alive. Weird.
 
I'm sorry, I just don't believe that. Maybe that was part of it or what he was going to tell people but that's not what I believe.


I agree with that. Its the reason (In Harm's Way) the writers HAD to give because Spike was a permanent part of Angel now and thus it was impossible for him to dissapear and go be with Buffy like Spike SO really would have.... or at least call her and say I want to go to you but there's work and helping the good fight kinda stuff I have to do here first, but I love you too 🙂 I just won't ever believe that it was within Spike's character believably to not contact Buffy, it just wouldn't have happened that way had it not been for schematics.
 
ItMustBeBunnies
ItMustBeBunnies
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I actually just think Spike was scared. Harmony actually saw through Spike's macho act and they both gained insight. Harm worried about not mattering and the subtext is that, he wondered if their (his and Buffy's) relationship actually meant as much to her as it did to him.
That's pretty much what I believe, a little bit diffrent though. It's like; when you have a crush on someone and I mean head over heels in love with them and you're 98% sure that they don't love you back but that 2% is what makes you smile and warms your heart. And part of you just wants to go to them and ask, just to get it over with but you're too scared to lose your 2%. That's what's going on with Spike, he thinks that Buffy only said that she loves him because at that moment he was hero, because he sacrificed himself(which, I know, is kind of what the rest of you are saying, but bear with me)if he comes back, not a hero anymore, he thinks she won't love him, and he already doubts so much, he can't lose that 2%. I think he would have gone to her if she hadn't said that she loves him, after getting such a big slice, how could he handle tiny crumbs?
 
i kind of want to go with the hole spike left buffy as a hero by sacraficing himself for the survival of the world, and that him knowing buffy would always be in mind of how much of a true champion he was at that point must have made him feel amazing.

but then part of me thinks he's already watched her die and then be ripped out of heaven to live back on this earth, imagine the grief he must have felt after all of that (i no they wern't doing the "tango" at this stage but i think spike did have strong feelings for her at this point). and now he's back after she left him on the edge of death it wouldn't be easy to deal with for either of them i dont think, but i think he might have thought about the fact that if he did go after her eventually one of them would have to go through the hole watching the other one die again this wouldn't be something either party would want to experience again. spike would probably be most likely to experience this though as he is no longer aging and buffy is, so if something in the big scary evil department doesn't kill her one day mother nature will.

keeping this in mind the pain of never been together again and buffy not knowing he was back again may have been easier to live with than the pain of living with the one you love knowing you will one day seen them die for a second time

i don't thats just my veiw on something that may have happened, hope that makes some sence and that people are open to the idea lolz
 
What's interesting to me is that his first instinct, upon being resurrected, was to go to Buffy. ("Buffy. Is she...?" ... "Where? Where is she?" ... "I have to see her... talk to her." ... You can't keep her from me!" ... "You have no idea what we had.") So... logic indicates that he either had to go against his impulses to stay in L.A, or that his impulses changed after he got some time to "fight the good fight" without Buffy as his crutch, and some time to re-examine and re-interpret Buffy's "I love you" (with the help of Angel's ever-eager contributions -- e.g. "That's why Buffy never really loved you. Because you weren't me.")

Anaross's story 34 Reasons I Never Called You features a consistently in-character and occasionally heartbreaking list of excuses. I apparently can't post links until I get 13 more posts, so I'll plug it later.
 
Maybe Spike never believed he was good enough for Buffy, and that he would always be second best to Angel. Weren't some of his last words to Buffy (after she tells him she loves him) " no you don't .. but thank you for saying it" Also, maybe Spike believed that this was the only way he could prove to Buffy that the love he felt was worth giving his all too.
 
well theres also probably the practical part - the buffy series was over, and i bet SMG didnt want to come over to do any Angel episodes

Yeah I believe that is basically the main reason. I thought it rather annoying that they couldn't use Buffy in that last season anymore and that they needed actors as a look-a-like. Having the two shows on seperate networks too was rather a drawback, but well I don't mind that Buffy and Spike showed up together in Season 5. After all there was plenty of story to be told any way in this Season.
 
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