Why not ensoul all vampires?

Buffy Summers

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On The Ethics of Vampire Slaying in Buffy the Vampire Slayer

by Greta Christina

I was recently re-watching "Becoming, Parts 1 and 2," those Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes where geeky witch Willow does a spell to give the vampire Angel his soul back. And suddenly I had a burning ethical question.

Spoiler alert, for people who haven't watched "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" but plan to.

Why don't they just keep doing the re-ensoulment spell — on all vampires? Or at least, on all the vampires that they can?

Yes, it's a somewhat difficult spell — although given that Willow could do it when she was a fairly inexperienced witch, it clearly can't be that difficult. And yes, it's very likely (although I'm not sure they specify this) that the spell can only be done one vampire at a time, and that you need to know which particular vampire you're re-ensouling. But given what a scourge vampires are on humanity, wouldn't it be worth doing, as much as possible? At least from a harm-reduction perspective, even if they could only re-ensoul a couple/few vampires a week, wouldn't that be worth it?

Besides, it's not like Willow is the only witch in the world capable of doing this spell. (The Romani magician who cursed Angel the first time obviously could do it.) So when the Scoobies (Buffy's gang, for those who don't watch the show) recovered the re-ensoulment spell, why didn't they immediately spread the word to every witch in the world? If every witch in the world re-ensouled even just one or two vampires a week, doesn't it seem likely that the entire vampire population could be entirely re-ensouled in a fairly short time? Vampires are easier to find than, say, smallpox. Wouldn't a concentrated vaccination program at least have potential to be entirely effective, fairly quickly? (Unless, of course, you started getting re-ensoulment denialists...)

In fact, I'm going to go further. I'm not just going to argue that this global re-ensoulment program is possible. I'm going to argue that not doing it is unethical. And not just from the obvious "reducing the number of people who die from vampire attacks" perspective. It's unethical from the vampire perspective.

On The Ethics of Vampire Slaying in Buffy the Vampire Slayer

The fact that vampires can be re-ensouled puts them in a very different good/evil category than other demons. Think about what both Angel and Spike were like after they were re-ensouled. The fact that they can be re-ensouled puts vampires more in the category of werewolves: dangerous, but with potential to be, from an ethical perspective, essentially human. And in the Buffyverse, it's considered highly unethical to kill a werewolf unless they're putting people in immediate danger. The Scoobies go to great lengths to make sure that Oz is caged when he's in his werewolf state — not just to protect other people from him, but to protect him.

So why is it ethical to go around killing every vampire in the world on sight, without even trying to re-ensoul them? Wouldn't it be far more ethical to at least try to re-ensoul as many vampires as they possibly could?

On The Ethics of Vampire Slaying in Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Now, when I brought this up with my wife Ingrid, she thought of an interesting ethical concern that I hadn't considered — namely, the ecological one. Vampires are immortal: they can be killed, but if they're not staked or decapitated or exposed to sunlight, they seem to live forever. So if every vampire on the planet were re-ensouled, there would be a whole lot of living creatures (well, not living, but you know what I mean), requiring a certain amount of blood, who would pretty much never die. Would that, Ingrid wondered, put too much strain on the planet's resources?

But I'm not sure this concern holds up. There just aren't that many vampires in the Buffyverse: far fewer than there are humans. Assuming a predator/ prey ratio of about 2000 to 1 (a rough ratio calculated by Brian Thomas, a PhD candidate in ecology at Stanford University), that would mean that in a world population of about 7 billion, there would be roughly 3.5 million vampires — about the size of Los Angeles. And once vampires are re-ensouled, they don't seem to make ("sire") new vampires (unless they're under the influence of a controlling external evil, like Spike was briefly in Season 7). They're immortal — but if they're re-ensouled, they don't reproduce. So even if new vampires continued to be sired by any remaining un-ensouled vampires during the vaccination program, it seems that eventually the population would stabilize. Maybe at higher than 3.5 million; maybe at, to be on the generous side, let's say 8 million. Let's call it New York City.

If we can feed the cities of Los Angeles or New York, surely we can feed that many vampires. Especially since vampires feed on blood, which is at least something of a renewable resource: blood can be harvested from living animals, the way milk or wool is. (I'd be interested, by the way, in hearing from vegan Buffy fans about the vegan ethics of this question. Would it be more ethical to continue staking vampires, who don't have souls but are potentially pretty human-like — or to re-ensoul them if it meant that some animals would have to be kept as food sources? Would re-ensouling vampires fall into the category of keeping carnivorous pets, like cats and dogs?)

What's more, re-ensouled vampires are a powerful asset in the fight against evil. Again — look at Angel and Spike. Both have become major players in the demon-hunting, evil-resisting scene. Of course, not every re-ensouled vampire would necessarily choose to do battle with demons and evil law firms and such. But even if they didn't all go that route — even if Angel and Spike were outliers, even if only one in ten or one in a hundred became champions, and the rest became store clerks and software designers and unemployed actors like the rest of us — that's still a whole lot of superheroes. Why on Earth didn't the Scoobies take advantage of this enormous potential, not only to rid the world of human-killing vampires, but to create an army of super-strong, super-powered allies? I mean, Buffy is always whining about the burden of Slayerdom, how she's alone in this fight and can never have a reprieve from it. Doesn't the re-ensoulment spell have "Slayer vacation" written all over it?

It seems to me that this is a serious plot hole. It's in the same vein as "Why don't they keep using the lie detector on Star Trek in every relevant episode?" and other convenient devices that are immediately forgotten (is there a TV Trope for that?). But it's a whole lot more serious. It cuts to the very essence of the show. The show is about slaying vampires. It's in the title, for crying out loud. And yet, after the discovery of a tool that could render vampire slaying obsolete, the show still goes on for five more seasons — six, if you count Angel — as if this had never happened, as if re-ensoulment were entirely irrelevant to anyone other than Angel and Spike and Buffy and anyone who has to listen to them gas on about their tormented romantic lives.

It's entirely possible that there's something I've overlooked in this analysis. It is, after all, something I cooked up in an afternoon. (Maybe Orbs of Thesulah can't be mass-produced or something.) But if I'm right, this doesn't just undermine the essence of the show from a plot perspective. It undermines it from an ethical perspective. One of the most interesting things about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is its thoughtful, complex, nuanced ethics. It is fundamentally about ethics — it's about the battle between good and evil, and the often murky waters that this battle stirs up — and it takes the ethics of its invented universe seriously. It's a little unsettling to realize that, for well over half the life of the show, those ethics had been quietly but profoundly blown to shrapnel, just so the show could go on.

Greta Christina is author of Coming Out Atheist: How to Do It, How to Help Each Other, and Why, of Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless, and of Bending: Dirty Kinky Stories About Pain, Power, Religion, Unicorns, & More. She blogs at Greta Christina's Blog.


Source: io9

What I think the author fails to realize is that having a soul doesn't make you a good person - so giving all vamps a soul would just mean there are a bunch of immortals out there with enhanced abilities AND now you have moral ambiguity about whether it's okay to kill them or not. Pass.

BUT I think if they could do the spell on all vampires, they would have done it on Spike OR that's how he would have gotten his soul back rather than going through all that fuss.
 
I think it would be an immeasurably cruel thing to do to rip souls from their resting place and stuff them back into their former bodies where they now remember killing and maiming, probably for centuries.

"You have no idea what it is like to have done the things I've done and to care."

A vampire is nothing but demon + memories of the host bodies' life. Let the soul rest and just kill the bloody demon.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
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Taake
Taake
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I think that re-ensouling every vampire would be a waste. @Kean--I agree with your entire statement. Plus I think of the fact that even if vampires had souls, maybe they wouldn't be better people. Maybe they still wouldn't care. Just because Angel seems to doesn't mean it would happen to every single one: maybe that's just Angel's personality. Vampires may not be better citizens....Nobody knows.
 
Wesley Pryce
Wesley Pryce
Yep,not everyone had a decent soul to begin with,very smart point
One of the most interesting things about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is its thoughtful, complex, nuanced ethics. It is fundamentally about ethics — it's about the battle between good and evil, and the often murky waters that this battle stirs up — and it takes the ethics of its invented universe seriously.

No, it is not about ethics. It is not a battle between good and evil, it is a battle between human and demonic. It is not good guys versus bad guys, it is humans versus demons. Vampires are not hunted because they are evil, they are hunted because they are vampires. The conflict is ruthless and genocidal in nature, drop the humanocentrism and suddenly no side is right here.

Man, it's like I need to start a blog or something.
 
Blaze
Blaze
I've been saying this for years, take it from the demon perspective and they aren't the bad guys, it's just nature
First of all, I'm not sure that Willow could actually give a vampire a soul. All that we have ever seen her do so far is restore a previously existing spell, much the same as an auto mechanic repairing an automobile. Just because he can repair it doesn't mean that he could design and build a new one from scratch. Also, despite the ethics question that Miss K brought up, merely ensouling a vampire doesn't automatically mean that you are going to make it good. Evil people died, too, and giving one of them back their soul wouldn't change a thing. They would still be evil.

Then there is the question of whether the newly ensouled vampires that DO want to become useful members of society are to be held responsible for the crimes that they committed prior to regaining their souls. Does the acquisition of a soul make a vampire a new person, no longer responsible for their previous crimes against society? If there is an argument over this subject concerning just 2 ensouled vampires now, just imagine that argument multiplied by at least several thousand.

But, ultimately, it comes down to the same reason that the oil companies aren't breaking their backs to find an economical substitute for petroleum. If they do, it'll put them out of business, or at least greatly reduce the demands for their services. Make all the vampires cute cuddly little kittens, and the Vampire Slayers would be out of a job.
 
Just because you give a vampire a soul doesn't automatically make it good, it just gives the person a moral choice, see Angel and Spike as to the different ways that they deal withthis choice.
 
We've also seen that the right guidance is needed for these vampires with souls. They don't just know how to live in their new state. In the three cases where we have seen vampires ensouled they have been totally lost, rendered essentially useless to society and on the verge of insanity. You would be talking about have to set up something akin to the Watcher's Council in order to deal with the fallout, with each individual vamp needing guidance.
 
First of all, I'm not sure that Willow could actually give a vampire a soul. All that we have ever seen her do so far is restore a previously existing spell, much the same as an auto mechanic repairing an automobile. Just because he can repair it doesn't mean that he could design and build a new one from scratch.

Thats not true, she redid the spell, she didn't do a new spell to patch work the old spell, she recast the same spell that was cast before.


I presume there is inly a limited number of Orbs.

The way we saw the spell cast the Orb hold the soul, which means that the soul doesn't go directly into the vampire from the ether, it goes from the ether to the orb to the vampire, so unless there is another way of doing it en mass, presumably Willow would need hundreds of thousands of orbs all at once or could only do the spell one at a time.


We had a discussion on here once that raised a few interesting points, when we saw Buffy and Joyce resurrected it was a very different process, their soul had to be pulled back from somewhere having moved on.
For Vampires (from what we've seen) the soul just had to be taken from the ether and put into the vampire, it didn't seem like the soul had moved on.
We had been discussing the idea that souls of turned humans hadn't moved on in the same way a regular persons had?
 
Buffy Summers
Buffy Summers
Oh I remember that thread
I think it would be an immeasurably cruel thing to do to rip souls from their resting place and stuff them back into their former bodies where they now remember killing and maiming, probably for centuries.

"You have no idea what it is like to have done the things I've done and to care."

A vampire is nothing but demon + memories of the host bodies' life. Let the soul rest and just kill the bloody demon.

Totally agree. The demon is the one responsible for the evil, not the person whose soul would be tortured by the memories of what the demon part had done.
 
Right out of the box, I think it could be something that they might look into. A vampire who hasn't killed or hurt anyone, freshly turned, yes.

A vampire like Darla, Dru, James, no way. Like [MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION]; said, forcing something on an innocent person like that is more than just cruel. Getting rid of evil vampires is not worth that level of pain and torment.
 
Not to mention we have seen how catastrophic a major swing in the balance of good and evil can be.
 
"What's more, re-ensouled vampires are a powerful asset in the fight against evil."

As I recall Angel spent 90+ years doing all sorts of stuff, but not fighting for the light (unless you include fried peanut butter and bananna sandwiches as part of the universal good). He didn't turn toward doing good until he met Buffy. Even souled, his fighting only for the light got damn grey - lawyer snacks anyone?

Spike wanted his soul, and he was needed pretty immediately. He didn't have 90+ years to adapt and he didn't need them, in part because he had both a shining star and a role model.

But Hitler was souled, as were all the mass murderers of our reality. So why would the average vampire care? We have a selection of two who went on to do good. That doesn't mean that all of them would even care. Sadists, psychopaths and sociopaths are all souled beings.

---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

We've also seen that the right guidance is needed for these vampires with souls. They don't just know how to live in their new state. In the three cases where we have seen vampires ensouled they have been totally lost, rendered essentially useless to society and on the verge of insanity. You would be talking about have to set up something akin to the Watcher's Council in order to deal with the fallout, with each individual vamp needing guidance.

I've never figured out the whole hell thing. The soul - which did nothing wrong - has to go to hell? I mean, hell is full of demons having fun so no reason for the demon to worry. Why punish the soul which is clearly innocent?
 
Gum Gnome33
Gum Gnome33
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I think it would be an immeasurably cruel thing to do to rip souls from their resting place and stuff them back into their former bodies where they now remember killing and maiming, probably for centuries.

Great point. So true.

And I think if we want to talk about the biggest "ethical" issue when it comes to slaying vampires, (and as Evil UU pointed out, this is all moral relativism), it is that vampires are staked as soon as they rise. I've talked about that a lot on here, particularly where the comics are concerned re Harmony and all of the sudden control that vamps were displaying which makes for a) inconsistency and b)--most importantly--the literal killing of innocents on the slayers' behalves.

So if there was a way to re-ensoul the newly turned who have not yet done any harm as vampires, instead of killing them, I suppose that would be the best solution.
 
Great point. So true.

And I think if we want to talk about the biggest "ethical" issue when it comes to slaying vampires, (and as Evil UU pointed out, this is all moral relativism), it is that vampires are staked as soon as they rise. I've talked about that a lot on here, particularly where the comics are concerned re Harmony and all of the sudden control that vamps were displaying which makes for a) inconsistency and b)--most importantly--the literal killing of innocents on the slayers' behalves.

So if there was a way to re-ensoul the newly turned who have not yet done any harm as vampires, instead of killing them, I suppose that would be the best solution.

I've thought about that a lot; ensouling newly turned vamps, and I'm still unsure how I stand. It would still mean taking a soul from its resting place to endure an indefinite amount of time where (if a moral centre is retained) they have to fight every instinct in their body.

I'm also unsure how I feel about the idea of the demon spirit trumping that of a demon spirit. Because the human soul has gone, that person doesn't exist. To re-ensoul is essentially the sacrifice a human soul of its natural journey. Humans are born to die. Where as, the vampire is naturally, unavoidably savage. In its natural state it serves no purpose but to kill and maim. Can they every be called innocent if that is their base state? I don't think vampire demons should be attributed personhood akin to that of humans. There is no saving the demon. Any true change in a vampire we have seen has come from the re-introduction of the soul.
 
Honestly? I don't think that's the Slayer's place. Just because something is possible (and we don't even know if it is) doesn't mean it should be done.
 
Even if Willow could handle a spell of this magnitude, which I doubt, the best that she can do is duplicate the Gypsy's original spell, complete with happiness clause. If she were able to eliminate that element, she would have done so one of the two times that she restored Angel's soul. Further, if she had been able to find a way to eliminate it at any time since then, I'm pretty sure that she would have done so, Angel being a friend and one of the major good guys, and, of course, one of the big heart throbs of a certain Slayer, also her friend. That means that any time that any vampire gets his or her moment of complete happiness, they're right back to where they were before the spell was cast. Is Willow going to keep casting and re-casting that spell for the rest of her life?

The only being who we have seen so far with the power to permanently reenstate a soul in a creature that no longer has one is Spike's cave demon, and I seriously doubt that it, or they, would be inclined to do so.
 
I'm also unsure how I feel about the idea of the demon spirit trumping that of a demon spirit. Because the human soul has gone, that person doesn't exist. To re-ensoul is essentially the sacrifice a human soul of its natural journey. Humans are born to die. Where as, the vampire is naturally, unavoidably savage. In its natural state it serves no purpose but to kill and maim. Can they every be called innocent if that is their base state? I don't think vampire demons should be attributed personhood akin to that of humans. There is no saving the demon. Any true change in a vampire we have seen has come from the re-introduction of the soul.

I completely understand what you are saying--I think the greatest complication, for me, lies in a lack of understanding for what exactly true vampiric nature is and whether it can be anything other than savage and brutal.

It's true that disrupting the soul's journey is a bit of a disturbing concept. But I think that when the alternative is to kill a being who has literally done no wrong is for me even more so. The way I see it is that in spite of a person's (or a demon's) nature, until that individual being has actually killed and has proven that it is unequivocally a threat to humanity, it should not be Buffy's duty to kill it.

The notion that somebody's loved one has been brutally killed by a vampire only to be killed again by the slayer upon rising, having done no wrong, is a bit difficult for me to swallow. If re-ensouling that person instead could somehow override most of his/her demonic instincts (as it has done for Angel and Spike) then I wonder if instead of meeting a gruesome end that person would ultimately have a second chance at life albeit in a demon's body. And as long as said body carries with it a clean record and nothing for the soul to feel guilt about...

You know, the biggest issue might be that it should really be up to an individual in the Buffyverse to decide whether, if ever vamped, to be staked immediately upon rising so as not to have to live "immortally" in a demon's body, even with a soul, or to choose re-ensoulment upon rising. Could the residents of Sunnydale, at least, be given a choice?
 
I completely understand what you are saying--I think the greatest complication, for me, lies in a lack of understanding for what exactly true vampiric nature is and whether it can be anything other than savage and brutal.

I wonder does the comics and even the Turok-Han in S7 provide us with any insight? In the comics Maloker is the Old One who is responsible for the creation of the vampires. Both he and the Turok-Han, the purest of modern vampires, were savage in every way. Even vampires that have shown something of a more advanced morality e.g. Harmony (yes, Harmony!) and Sam Lawson, were unable to fight what they were. They still killed even though they either knew better or didn't want to do it. They couldn't fight their inherent nature.

It's true that disrupting the soul's journey is a bit of a disturbing concept. But I think that when the alternative is to kill a being who has literally done no wrong is for me even more so. The way I see it is that in spite of a person's (or a demon's) nature, until that individual being has actually killed and has proven that it is unequivocally a threat to humanity, it should not be Buffy's duty to kill it.

But this is a totally separate entity. It isn't the same being that had died. As Giles quite rightly put it, it's the thing that killed the human being. It's like the BuffyBot, you can create something identical to physically identical to Buffy in every way. You can even programme her to be the person you knew Buffy to be, but it still isn't her. A vampire is much the same to me. Once the soul is gone, the person you love is gone. Killing the vampire that now occupies their body isn't a second death, it is the death of something else entirely.

Given what we know about vampires, I think it is already very clear that they always are an unequivocal threat to humanity.

The notion that somebody's loved one has been brutally killed by a vampire only to be killed again by the slayer upon rising, having done no wrong, is a bit difficult for me to swallow. If re-ensouling that person instead could somehow override most of his/her demonic instincts (as it has done for Angel and Spike) then I wonder if instead of meeting a gruesome end that person would ultimately have a second chance at life albeit in a demon's body. And as long as said body carries with it a clean record and nothing for the soul to feel guilt about...

As I said above, a vampire is a new entity not the lost loved one returned. There is no second killing of that person. Just a human death and then a vampiric death. The right of the soul trumps everything for me and interfering with that, especially when you know what you are signing it up for, is honestly one of the worst things I can think of. It's the ultimate disregard for human life and agency. Once a life has been lived I fundamentally believe it has the right to rest.

You know, the biggest issue might be that it should really be up to an individual in the Buffyverse to decide whether, if ever vamped, to be staked immediately upon rising so as not to have to live "immortally" in a demon's body, even with a soul, or to choose re-ensoulment upon rising. Could the residents of Sunnydale, at least, be given a choice?

On health insurance forms: After DNR there is the section entitled, In the Event of Vampirism:

SOS: Stake on Sight
SMS: Save My Soul.
 
I wonder does the comics and even the Turok-Han in S7 provide us with any insight? In the comics Maloker is the Old One who is responsible for the creation of the vampires. Both he and the Turok-Han, the purest of modern vampires, were savage in every way. Even vampires that have shown something of a more advanced morality e.g. Harmony (yes, Harmony!) and Sam Lawson, were unable to fight what they were. They still killed even though they either knew better or didn't want to do it. They couldn't fight their inherent nature.

But, isn't the fact that they *can* exhibit advanced morality and actually learn humanistic ethics through circumstance(eg don't feed off of bleeding disaster victims and don't continue to have sex with robots in people's likeness when they tell you not to), enough to reconsider how much the demon is really in control? Harmony was actually able to stop killing altogether, even without a chip or a soul. (Side note: 🙄 But, it is the story we're given.) Though it's true that the show and comics have given us far more examples that suggest that vampires are unequivocal threats, we have also been shown exceptions which have me questioning whether this true barbaric nature is actually something that can be curbed.

But this is a totally separate entity. It isn't the same being that had died. As Giles quite rightly put it, it's the thing that killed the human being. It's like the BuffyBot, you can create something identical to physically identical to Buffy in every way. You can even programme her to be the person you knew Buffy to be, but it still isn't her. A vampire is much the same to me. Once the soul is gone, the person you love is gone. Killing the vampire that now occupies their body isn't a second death, it is the death of something else entirely.....As I said above, a vampire is a new entity not the lost loved one returned. There is no second killing of that person. Just a human death and then a vampiric death.

For me this is another area where the show tends to contradict itself. Though we see plenty of cases in which the vampire doesn't remotely resemble the human, there are exceptions. Harmony as a vampire, for example, seems to be very much the same person as she was when she was a human--particularly so in the comics. And to an objective viewer I think the differences are quite obvious but imagine for example that you are her mother. If you were to meet Harmony as a vampire I think the similarities would be so jarring that you wouldn't want in a million years for her to be staked. The main difference of course is that for every typical Harmony-ism that she utters ("I'm gonna tell my boyfriend that you were mean to me!") she is ultimately controlled by a demon...until somehow she finds a way to control it later on, in LA. But when she is under its influence, we can say pretty confidently that that's because she doesn't have a soul. Given the amount of herself that she's retained in the transformation plus the addition of her original soul, wouldn't the demonic aspects of the vampire be virtually overridden and wouldn't we ultimately be getting Harmony back? At least enough for her loved ones, or Harmony herself, to be satisfied?


The right of the soul trumps everything for me and interfering with that, especially when you know what you are signing it up for, is honestly one of the worst things I can think of. It's the ultimate disregard for human life and agency. Once a life has been lived I fundamentally believe it has the right to rest.

I do agree with you here. Which is why I think that if it could somehow be a choice, perhaps that would be a better solution than having Buffy kill beings whose path may be largely predictable but ultimately unknown, thanks to the inconsistencies that the 'verse has thrown our way.


On health insurance forms: After DNR there is the section entitled, In the Event of Vampirism:SOS: Stake on Sight
SMS: Save My Soul.

I was going to bring this up as a parallel but I didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Of course people would have to be wearing something very obvious at all times so that Buffy could immediately identify the non-stakers and get Willow to work on them or something, without risking her life trying to shuffle through their pockets for ID's. What a mess...

Aside from the "ethics" of it all, I also wonder how Buffy, herself can "stake on sight" when she's been so close to souled vampires. For example, I know we differ very much in opinion when it comes to Spike's motivation for getting his soul, but ultimately the fact is that he *did;* he is an example of a vampire who in spite of his demonic impulses actually chose to seek it out and have it put back. Leaving out any discussion of his motivation or whether he's to be commended for doing so, the mere fact that he *did* has to put a real dent in her airtight worldview of "vampires must all be killed no matter what." Whether for selfless reasons or simply to achieve an end, that a demon can choose to re-constitute himself such that the soul can in fact win out over the vampire--and that she *saw* it happen--should really give her pause. It's so significant, at least how I see it. And maybe ultimately she'd decide that she will go on killing as before. Or maybe she'll think about having Willow re-ensoul the willing. Either way, I'd really like to see her consider the inherent issues, in the first place.
 
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