Willow would be bisexual if made today

[Bop]

Willow was written as straight and then gay so I see how people mix that and get bi. But really she could be gay even though she had relationships with men.

 

[famicommander]

Willow was written as straight and then gay so I see how people mix that and get bi. But really she could be gay even though she had relationships with men.

I agree with this, a lot of people take longer to realize they're gay. Not that the show was written that way, but it could've been an interesting angle to explore. Perhaps Willow loved Oz but wasn't attracted to him physically, and Oz picked up on that which contributed to his infidelity.

 

[thrasherpix]

That's not how it works. Well in this bizarre, surreal day of social media where language is both increasingly meaningless while still paradoxically mind boggling sensitive, maybe it does, but it was different then.

To see something more accurate on what it's like to be gay without knowing it, even in a straight relationship, see But I'm a Cheerleader. (It was silly, but at least she comes off as gay without knowing it.) Plenty of the academic texts (at least through 2010) also support that rather than people just retconning their lives whenever they want, saying it doesn't matter as it's all imaginary constructs of concepts, save when it arbitrarily does.

If Willow really was gay...that looks really bad on her as a character, because she was a manipulative narcissist with Oz, at best, and did things like hook up with Xander just to hurt Cordelia (and not needing a "delusting" spell but a spell to eliminate spite).

Best case scenario, it was extreme insecurity which she tried to fix with males, and while that's common enough, I don't buy it for Willow (and is still extremely sad for all involved).

I prefer to think of Willow as bi, both to keep liking the character, and because it made much more sense to the story as presented (however bad the show is with blatant retcons).

 

[Ethan Reigns]

That's not how it works. Well in this bizarre, surreal day of social media where language is both increasingly meaningless while still paradoxically mind boggling sensitive, maybe it does, but it was different then.

To see something more accurate on what it's like to be gay without knowing it, even in a straight relationship, see But I'm a Cheerleader. (It was silly, but at least she comes off as gay without knowing it.) Plenty of the academic texts (at least through 2010) also support that rather than people just retconning their lives whenever they want, saying it doesn't matter as it's all imaginary constructs of concepts, save when it arbitrarily does.

If Willow really was gay...that looks really bad on her as a character, because she was a manipulative narcissist with Oz, at best, and did things like hook up with Xander just to hurt Cordelia (and not needing a "delusting" spell but a spell to eliminate spite).

Best case scenario, it was extreme insecurity which she tried to fix with males, and while that's common enough, I don't buy it for Willow (and is still extremely sad for all involved).

I prefer to think of Willow as bi, both to keep liking the character, and because it made much more sense to the story as presented (however bad the show is with blatant retcons).

The main attraction Oz had for Willow was attention and endorsement. If you are a girl without a boyfriend, people assume there is something wrong with you that prevents a relationship from happening. Once she got the attention of Oz, Xander was ready to consider her to be date bait after ignoring her for most of his life. Willow was endorsed by Oz. and as a result, Xander finally noticed her. Her need for Xander's attention was definitely more bi than lesbian in nature. BTW the same thing happens with men - no girl gives you a moment's notice until you get a girlfriend.

Willow was ready to perform a spell to ensure Oz never found love again after his dalliance with Veruca and only stopped at the last minute, not as likely out of concern for Oz but more likely out of concern for karma. She would have been exposed to the wiccan doctrine that to wish ill on someone or perform a spell that promotes that ill is destined to come back against you three times stronger. The fact that she would consider such a thing marks her as evil. It goes against the LGBT message that a bisexual or lesbian woman would be presented as evil, but few in the LGBT community have ever watched the show and objected to the representation. In fact, Tillow was the main attraction for a lot of people even though Willow sank into toxicity during that time.

There are a lot of people like Elton John or Sally Ride who entered into traditional hetero marriages (which both lasted about four years) even though they were gay shows that the desire to appear normal and/or hetero is what drove her.

I concur with your disdain for postmodernist Marxist philosophy that there is your truth and my truth but never the truth. One of the most laughable statements to come from a postmodernist professor was that, after archaeologists found one of the Egyptian pharaohs died of tuberculosis, claimed that it could not have happened because tuberculosis is a social construct.

 

[garfan]

The main attraction Oz had for Willow was attention and endorsement. If you are a girl without a boyfriend, people assume there is something wrong with you that prevents a relationship from happening. Once she got the attention of Oz, Xander was ready to consider her to be date bait after ignoring her for most of his life. Willow was endorsed by Oz. and as a result, Xander finally noticed her. Her need for Xander's attention was definitely more bi than lesbian in nature. BTW the same thing happens with men - no girl gives you a moment's notice until you get a girlfriend.

Willow was ready to perform a spell to ensure Oz never found love again after his dalliance with Veruca and only stopped at the last minute, not as likely out of concern for Oz but more likely out of concern for karma. She would have been exposed to the wiccan doctrine that to wish ill on someone or perform a spell that promotes that ill is destined to come back against you three times stronger. The fact that she would consider such a thing marks her as evil. It goes against the LGBT message that a bisexual or lesbian woman would be presented as evil, but few in the LGBT community have ever watched the show and objected to the representation. In fact, Tillow was the main attraction for a lot of people even though Willow sank into toxicity during that time.

There are a lot of people like Elton John or Sally Ride who entered into traditional hetero marriages (which both lasted about four years) even though they were gay shows that the desire to appear normal and/or hetero is what drove her.

I concur with your disdain for postmodernist Marxist philosophy that there is your truth and my truth but never the truth. One of the most laughable statements to come from a postmodernist professor was that, after archaeologists found one of the Egyptian pharaohs died of tuberculosis, claimed that it could not have happened because tuberculosis is a social construct.

where do you see evidence Willow actually believes in the Wiccan rede, which I'm not sure the show actually ever spelled out, rather than calling herself Wiccan because that's more PC than witch

Also, as Willow was still with Oz she wasn't LGBT at the time. It would be several more months before that was revealed

 

[TheMaster666]

I don't understand how any of this is newsworthy. I mean, isn't that what she is? Early on she was with Oz, then later she was with Tara. I think that's the definition of being bisexual is attraction towards both sides.

 

[thrasherpix]

The main attraction Oz had for Willow was attention and endorsement. If you are a girl without a boyfriend, people assume there is something wrong with you that prevents a relationship from happening. Once she got the attention of Oz, Xander was ready to consider her to be date bait after ignoring her for most of his life. Willow was endorsed by Oz. and as a result, Xander finally noticed her. Her need for Xander's attention was definitely more bi than lesbian in nature. BTW the same thing happens with men - no girl gives you a moment's notice until you get a girlfriend.

Willow was ready to perform a spell to ensure Oz never found love again after his dalliance with Veruca and only stopped at the last minute, not as likely out of concern for Oz but more likely out of concern for karma. She would have been exposed to the wiccan doctrine that to wish ill on someone or perform a spell that promotes that ill is destined to come back against you three times stronger. The fact that she would consider such a thing marks her as evil. It goes against the LGBT message that a bisexual or lesbian woman would be presented as evil, but few in the LGBT community have ever watched the show and objected to the representation. In fact, Tillow was the main attraction for a lot of people even though Willow sank into toxicity during that time.

There are a lot of people like Elton John or Sally Ride who entered into traditional hetero marriages (which both lasted about four years) even though they were gay shows that the desire to appear normal and/or hetero is what drove her.

I concur with your disdain for postmodernist Marxist philosophy that there is your truth and my truth but never the truth. One of the most laughable statements to come from a postmodernist professor was that, after archaeologists found one of the Egyptian pharaohs died of tuberculosis, claimed that it could not have happened because tuberculosis is a social construct.

I should say I just woke up when I read and replied, and I was more commenting on how upside down everything has gotten. It used to be how we were born, but now it's a choice, only we don't make one until we know we have it, so are somehow straight. Not straight-acting and confused, but actually straight. Like those who are taught to be right handed who are born left handed are somehow right handed until they realize they're not rather than typically having a lot of trouble (which was often blamed on other factors).

If I can love and lust after men the way Willow did Oz simply because I did not know, then how do lesbians even exist, save as a choice? It becomes meaningless. (Snark: maybe I'm hetero-phobic who should "just try being straight" to please mommy or the the guy who thinks he can change you, or perhaps bi because all gender is a construct or some such.)

'Course those being bi (especially back when the show came out) caught flack from both sides, so as a matter of convenience (and to be fully accepted) claimed to be gay or straight depending on who they were with. They could be passionately in love with either gender (as Willow did, her acting too good for me to think it was just her going through the motions confused). That did not happen to me because I was gay, not bi.


And I don't care for how language is being subverted that threatens the social glue. It always has, but it seems unprecedented now, and like anyone with a computer can do it. Sometimes it feels like some grand prank or experiment...and it probably is at times, while serious at others (and I gave up in trying to figure out who comes up with these new rules that the rest of us are expected to know, who ratifies which ones stick and which ones don't, etc).


I did have one boyfriend in school, and I did not know I was gay yet (though I should've). Still, I did not lust after him, and as fond of him as I was (and miss him to this day), he never broke my heart the way Oz did Willow when we broke up, and I don't think he could (though he could've hurt or betrayed me the way friends can, not that he did). We were just friends who, after awhile, said we were dating for awhile as it somehow felt obligatory (though girls did try to take him from me despite that he was invisible to them before that, and I wasn't even jealous, though I was annoyed with their blatant disrespect of me by trying to take him from me). Our love was more like Buffy and Willow rather than Willow and Oz (or Tara), and continued as it had after we "broke up" (me shrugging over the break up, still his friend). And that was considered normal for someone unaware of her true sexuality yet by sociologists at the time.