Willow's sexuality

[Robb Stark]

This is something I've kind of pondered about. Do you think that Willow is someone who, regardless of sex, falls in love with the person, or who has a more defined sexuality?

I ask this because over the course of the series I think it's pretty clear that Willow loved Xander and Oz (now, the easy answer is that this was done before the writers had decided to make Willow gay). It could be argued that Xander wasn't true love, but I really think that Oz was. She was sexually attracted to both of them and expressed that.

However, by S7, Willow is very clearly gay. The subtlety is completely gone ("I'm a breast girl!") and she talks about how she's attracted to Dawn. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I just don't know how sexuality can evolve like that, but I've always kind of wondered how that translates to her relationship and feelings towards Oz. I've just sort of viewed that Willow always loved Oz, but then feel in love with Tara, and that their sex was secondary. By S7 however that doesn't seem to be the case. Does that make any sense?

 

[EVIL UU]

Sexual orientation is generally considered to be fluid, it can develop and change. And it's not just Willow. Buffy was a super-straight gal, alright, not so super, hide those torches and pitchforks slashers, because there's a ridiculous amount of lesbian subtext in the show but still, mostly straight and she did go to bed with another slayer and very much enjoyed the sex. Something's changed I say.

their sex was secondary

What makes you think that, I'm honestly curious. I mean, Willow and Tara together either get high, you know, do spells or get laid. Tara is shy and her fashion sense is questionable but so what? It doesn't make her any less passionate, especially in bed.

I've always kind of wondered how that translates to her relationship and feelings towards Oz. I've just sort of viewed that Willow always loved Oz, but then feel in love with Tara, and that their sex was secondary.

I like to think that Willow chose Tara instead of Oz in "New Moon Rising" because sex with Tara was just so much better. It made her realize her sexual orientation, the experience was much more natural and fulfilling.

Do you think that Willow is someone who, regardless of sex, falls in love with the person, or who has a more defined sexuality?

No, sex is far too important for her. Buffy can live without a sexual partner for years and she's fine, Willow finds a new partner in a matter of months and is much more active sexually. She noticed that something was wrong with her relationship because Oz stopped sleeping with her. Not to mention date rape drug doping grumpy Tara to get laid.

 

[iShower4free]

I thought all the post s07 relationships just fly at you. Buffy is a lesbian, Xander who since Anya fell in love with a Slayer who was later killed. Buffy decides she loves Xander (which I hate), but nope she catches Xander making out with Dawn whom he is in love with now. I know comic book pace can be erratic at times but come on. I know this doesnt really have much to do with the thread Evil UU just had me thinking about Buffy and Satsu and yeah lol, sorry.

 

[SlayerFest]

I know that there are some people who insist that she's bi simply because she dated Oz, was in love with him, had sex with him...yada yada yada. However, I'm a firm believer in "you are what you say you are". Willow claims that she is gay, therefore she is gay. She's a lesbian. Sure, she loved Oz and she'll always love Xander, but I do believe that it's possible that she met Tara and thought, "this feels right and I am definitely a lesbian". If she decided one day that she was wrong and that she's bisexual because she meets the right guy and falls in love with him, that's fine too. Willow is a lesbian because she claims that she is so. Sure, she's a fictional character, but if my friend dated a guy then dated a girl and told me she was a lesbian, I wouldn't say, "No, you're not. You were in love with a guy, you're breaking the rules!' I don't know what she's feeling, I'm not her...I have no right to just tell her what her sexual orientation is.

So to answer the question...I believe that Willow is just a lesbian, because she claims that she is, that's how she feels, so that's what she is. I never really questioned her sexuality after Tara until I realized that tons of people seem to think that she has to be bisexual because she dated a guy. I understand why people would say that but...I just don't agree with it. I've known lesbians who dated quite a few guys, found the right girl, and realized that they were only attracted to the same sex.

 

[Robb Stark]

Sexual orientation is generally considered to be fluid, it can develop and change. And it's not just Willow. Buffy was a super-straight gal, alright, not so super, hide those torches and pitchforks slashers, because there's a ridiculous amount of lesbian subtext in the show but still, mostly straight and she did go to bed with another slayer and very much enjoyed the sex. Something's changed I say.

That makes sense. I always read into Buffy that she and Faith had a lot more than just friends/enemies going on.


[/QUOTE]What makes you think that, I'm honestly curious. I mean, Willow and Tara together either get high, you know, do spells or get laid. Tara is shy and her fashion sense is questionable but so what? It doesn't make her any less passionate, especially in bed.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean passion. I meant that I thought that Willow fell in love with the person, and that the gender was secondary. She was in love with Oz, but she fell for Tara, and the fact that one was a boy and one a girl didn't really enter into it. However, [MENTION=11753]Fredikins[/MENTION] made a lot of sense in her post.

 

[tec]

I have been in two separate relationships where the other girl was undecided which way to turn its complicated messy and muddled with emotions

So when Willow says shes gay shes gay. She found what makes her happy and thats that...

Ok a few questions from the newb

Tara's fashion sense is questionable

I dont understand this one

she talks about how she's attracted to Dawn

When and where was this conversation?

 

[Kenimowy]

I have been in two separate relationships where the other girl was undecided which way to turn its complicated messy and muddled with emotions

So when Willow says shes gay shes gay. She found what makes her happy and thats that...

Ok a few questions from the newb

I dont understand this one


When and where was this conversation?

I think the Dawn bit was that episode "Him" when they see Dawn dancing in the club and both Xander and Willow make a comment about finding Dawn attractive and are disturbed by it

 

[tec]

Ah ok I see the line now thanks

 

[BuffyElevated]

I have never believed that Willow was a lesbian. She clearly had very strong feelings for both Xander and Oz, so I think, at best, she's bisexual.
However, being bisexual doesn't mean you always have feelings for both sexes; I have many bisexual friends who have been mainly attracted to people of one sex for years, but they still claim bisexuality because they never say never to the possibility that someone may come along and change their mind. I myself, am a bisexual woman who has been married to a man for 10 years. Does this make me straight? No because I am still attracted to women, and if I were to ever get divorced (God forbid), I would gladly enter into a same-sex relationship if I met the right woman and fell in love.
For these reasons, I don't accept Willow being strictly lesbian. After Tara, we have only ever seen her with Kennedy. Who's to say that if another man came into her life that she wouldn't be attracted to and fall for him? It's happened in the past, so I think it could happen again. However, for fandom's sake, if Willow was going to get back to "driving stick", as Faith put it, I would hope it would be with Oz.

 

[tec]

Until the words I think I'm kinda bisexual come out Willow's mouth she will be lesbian.
She might not of know it in S1-S4 but she figured it out.
I don't think shes looked back or regretted her decision.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

She definitely had feelings for Xander and Oz in the past, but I don't think that should question what her sexuality is, after all, that was BEFORE she realized she was gay, not AFTER.

I think most people who turn out to be gay has had heterosexual relations before their realizations (even I have), and I don't think that should give people a reason to question if they're bi or not. It's complicated to explain and easier to understand the situation if you're actually in it, but my point is, if Willow says she's gay/the writer says she is, then she is. The fact she was with men in the past doesn't change that. When she slept with Oz, it was probably more of an emotional thing than a sexually attracted thing.

 

[Riley's Way]

I don't know I just don't buy this "becoming a lesbian" thing, I have tons & tons of gay friends, and none of them just became gay all of a sudden after meeting someone, they've all been gay all their lives. Sure, some of them lived in denial till something came along and made them open their eyes, but after reflection they all say the same thing, "I've been gay since I can remember"

Sure you can argue everyone is different and it's not the same for everybody, but I would've been more inclined to believe that if Willow was a real person, but she's just a fictional character and they only thought about making her a lesbian in season 4. So everything she did or said in the previous seasons shouldn't be taken into account ..

& fictional character aside, there's no way she's not bi, I mean I'm gay and I've dated girls, and there is no way in hell I would've felt what she felt for Oz or Xander. You can't be a lesbian and get depressed after your boyfriend leaves you, it just doesn't make sense!

 

[tec]

I really cant explain why but not true...

I have seen women hurt by guys and they never want to hurt like that again so they make a life choice. All we can do is accept and respect that decision.

Larry thanks to Xanders help found out he was gay.

 

[EVIL UU]

I thought all the post s07 relationships just fly at you. Buffy is a lesbian, Xander who since Anya fell in love with a Slayer who was later killed. Buffy decides she loves Xander (which I hate), but nope she catches Xander making out with Dawn whom he is in love with now. I know comic book pace can be erratic at times but come on. I know this doesnt really have much to do with the thread Evil UU just had me thinking about Buffy and Satsu and yeah lol, sorry.

Despite what my signature says, I think that Buffy is at least somewhat bisexual. Mostly, I think she's confused and of course, unlike Willow she doesn't even try to face it and think about her own sexuality because Buffy is prohibited of thinking or something. Until the inevitable Sex with a girl was awesome! I like girls too! scene.

And Xander? Buffy's always loved him but I don't think she's in love with him. Or maybe she is. I don't know, don't really care, not going to guess.

I dont understand this one

Well, Tara is a very attractive woman, she's freaking gorgeous but especially during those early episodes of season 4 she's dressed in all those baggy clothes, hooded sweatshirt and whatnot, maybe she likes that and it's fine, I mean that stuff is very comfy but I think that her clothing choices are a consequence of her shyness. She's a beautiful person who tries not to look beautiful. I'm just not sure that's the best way to dress.

That makes sense. I always read into Buffy that she and Faith had a lot more than just friends/enemies going on.

It's not just Faith, Faith's obvious but it's pretty much most female characters on the show, except of Anya and Cordy, although that's debatable. In the first two seasons Buffy and Willow don't even look like best friends, they look like girlfriends, constantly holding their hands, sleeping together, cuddling and so on, Buffy and Willow look more like a couple than Buffy and Angel do, turn of the sound and just watch them. And then there's weird love is better than no love with Dawn and almost out of place dialogue with Tara in season 6, eh...it's just everywhere.

Buffy writers took notes from Xena and then took it to the next level, homosexual subtext is everywhere, slash-shipper fodder in almost every episode. Shippers man, it's like the show is made for them.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

In the first two seasons Buffy and Willow don't even look like best friends, they look like girlfriends, constantly holding their hands, sleeping together, cuddling and so on, Buffy and Willow look more like a couple than Buffy and Angel do, turn of the sound and just watch them.

Um... what? I've seen the first two seasons loads of times and I don't remember Buffy and Willow "constantly holding hands, sleeping together, and cuddling". Are you sure you were watching the same show? 😕 If you mean when they had sleepovers, well that's kind of what best friends do, they have sleepovers.

I think society these days has really messed up people's brains. Two girls can't even have a sleepover or be close without others thinking they're gay for each other, jeez.

 

[Kenimowy]

Personally it was always my belief that Willow fell in love with the person and not their gender. When Kennedy asked her when she started liking women, Willow was very quick to correct Kennedy and inform her that it was just one woman.
To me this expresses that it is not women she is attracted to in general, but one woman in particular that she loved.

So, I think Willow doesn't see gender as an issue, if she loves someone, she loves them.

 

[dexeded]

Personally it was always my belief that Willow fell in love with the person and not their gender. When Kennedy asked her when she started liking women, Willow was very quick to correct Kennedy and inform her that it was just one woman.

True, but she has also explicitly stated that she was gay. She even had to plan to turn RJ into a female in 'Him'. If she were bi, she wouldn't have needed to do that.

 

[EVIL UU]

Um... what? I've seen the first two seasons loads of times and I don't remember Buffy and Willow "constantly holding hands, sleeping together, and cuddling". Are you sure you were watching the same show? If you mean when they had sleepovers, well that's kind of what best friends do, they have sleepovers. I think society these days has really messed up people's brains. Two girls can't even have a sleepover or be close without others thinking they're gay for each other, jeez.

Well, take into consideration that one of those girls is gay and the other is at least somewhat bisexual. So when Buffy says Wow! You're a dish! I mean, really she might really mean it. There's a little scene with Buffy suggestively sniffing Willow in Cave-Buffy mode - pure shipper-fuel that adds nothing to the story but it spawned like a billion fan works. And that was the point. I mean, we're talking here about a show that devoted an entire episode to shitty fan fiction ( "Superstar" )

Personally I don't care weather they're gay for each other or not, relationships are mostly a time wasted between slaying and funny puns anyway, but that's how subtext works. The cuddly girl-on-girl content is there precisely to make people think that they're gay for each other. Because people love that, it makes them write slash fan fiction and argue on message boards and that's good for the show. "Xena" writers understood that, "Buffy" writers understood that as well, though "Buffy" is still rather tame with the subtext, shows like "ICarly" go completely nuts with that stuff, you could write a book about subtext and sexual innuendo in "ICarly".

Take a look at this if you're interested:
http://icarly.wikia.com/wiki/Cam_Relationship
http://icarly.wikia.com/wiki/Innuendo

Because, surprise surprise, sex sells.

So yes, I acknowledge the existence of lesbian subtext and for the record, I am not a fan of ICarly but I think it's like Xena, a smart show that pretends that it's dumb.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

True, but she has also explicitly stated that she was gay. She even had to plan to turn RJ into a female in 'Him'. If she were bi, she wouldn't have needed to do that.

If I remember correctly, she liked RJ despite him being male and she only thought about turning him into a woman after Anya suggested it on accident.

There were some things that Willow did after she said "GAY NOW" that made me think Willow was bisexual just like I'm sure there are things Willow did or said that made people think she was a lesbian when she was all "Uh, I like guys".

To me personally, Willow is bisexual because I need her to be bisexual. Unfortunately what I want personally and what happens on screen (despite hints) and in comics, cannon does not match what I want.

But to me, Willow is bisexual or at least queer.

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

Well, take into consideration that one of those girls is gay and the other is at least somewhat bisexual. So when Buffy says Wow! You're a dish! I mean, really she might really mean it. There's a little scene with Buffy suggestively sniffing Willow in Cave-Buffy mode - pure shipper-fuel that adds nothing to the story but it spawned like a billion fan works. And that was the point.

So... because a caveman version of Buffy sniffed a woman, that means Buffy likes women? I think all the cave people sniffed everyone, it's just what cave people seem to do, like how dogs sniff everything.

Just because Willow turned out to be gay doesn't mean she was ever attracted to Buffy, everyone has their own personal tastes, gay people aren't attracted to EVERYONE with the same genitals as them.

And I honestly don't see how Buffy is bi-sexual. Yes her and Faith were close at one point, but that doesn't mean they were sexually attracted to one another. If anything, Faith was the bi one (she was quite feisty, even with women), but not Buffy.

I think you're looking too into this to be honest.