Willow's sexuality

[BuffyElevated]

True, but she has also explicitly stated that she was gay. She even had to plan to turn RJ into a female in 'Him'. If she were bi, she wouldn't have needed to do that.

Yes, but she was attracted to RJ. Just because she prefers women doesn't mean she's completely unattracted to men.

And before you counter with "it was a spell", I realize that.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=11396]WileyDairyGnome[/MENTION]
Dude, you're preaching to the wrong asshole here. I'm just telling you how shippers see it, as they're generally the target audience of shipper pandering nonsense, the existence of which has been confirmed by the writers multiple times, in forum messages, interviews and DVD commentaries. Me? I'm happiest when Buffy chops priests to pieces, sets vampires on fire and pokes demons' eyes with her bare hands while making puns about it. That, I believe, is the essence of the show, not who Buffy sleeps with.

And I honestly don't see how Buffy is bi-sexual.

She ****ed a woman and enjoyed it enough to do it again. You can pretend she's straight but don't expect me to do that.

I think you're looking too into this to be honest.

Oh don't you dare.

Man, I can't believe I allowed myself to be dragged into a shipper nonsense discussion like this. Time to abandon this thread. It's just so...beneath me.

 

[SlayerFest]

In the first two seasons Buffy and Willow don't even look like best friends, they look like girlfriends, constantly holding their hands, sleeping together, cuddling and so on, Buffy and Willow look more like a couple than Buffy and Angel do, turn of the sound and just watch them.

Uh...what? My best friend and I sleep in the same bed when we sleep over at each other's house, and the thought of having a romantic relationship with her makes me feel ill...that would literally be like dating my sister. Just, no. And about two months ago I slept over at a girl's house the night I met her. She lives really far from my house, it was late, we were having a mini Buffy marathon and decided to finish it haha so I just slept over, in her bed. There was absolutely nothing romantic or sexual about it. I also do not remember Buffy and Willow cuddling, ever. Their relationship seemed totally realistic and not once did it seem sexual to me. Also, they hold hands once (that I can recall) in Hush because they were scared and they were just being there for each other, which is what friends do.

I know girls who are friends, that hold hands. It's really not that uncommon and surely all of those girls aren't dating 😉 you're obviously entitled to your opinion but I never saw it that way. I mean they really weren't even that close in the first two seasons, in season 2 Willow sleeps over because Angelus broke into her bedroom, and they're just sitting in the bed, with stakes. How romantic haha...but maybe there's a scene (or a few scenes) you're referring to that I can't seem to recall.

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

I think society these days has really messed up people's brains. Two girls can't even have a sleepover or be close without others thinking they're gay for each other, jeez.

Haha seriously. I know sooo many girls, straight girls, who kiss their best friends on the lips. I don't do that with any of my friends, but when I see it I don't think, "ooh something else must be going on, those two are dating!" Although a lot of people do tend to assume they're gay if neither of them is dating a guy. Then their sexual orientation is up for debate, which is pretty silly.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Please be civil when discussing this topic, folks. No need to attack others' POV.

 

[Aimee]

Okay, this is all getting a bit crazy. So please don't attack my humble opinion fellow BTVS loving folks.

I think the truth is that there is some contradictory script writing going on when it comes to Willows sexually. I think of her as being attracted to people rather than strictly men or women. She truly loved Oz and truly loved Tara. I'm not convinced she flat out stop being interested in guys. I think Kennedy was a lust thing and if the house was filled with hot young guys she may have had a lust thing with one of them - we'll never know! So I'm going to say bi-sexual.

In response to all this talk about Buffy being bi-sexual, well, sometimes I think some people so desperately want Buffy to be attracted to Faith they see stuff that just plain isn't there.

 

[white avenger]

[MENTION=11396]WileyDairyGnome[/MENTION]



She ****ed a woman and enjoyed it enough to do it again. You can pretend she's straight but don't expect me to do that.

That isn't necessarily an indication of latent bisexuality. Buffy was, at that time, basically confined to an all female society, pretty much the same as the inmates in a prison. It's not unheard of for an otherwise straight person to engage in a homosexual relationship under those circumstances, then return to their normal heterosexual orientation once released. Discounting Xander, Buffy and her Slayers were living in an all female society no different from a prison. Though it was never mentioned in the story line, it would have been quite likely that Buffy and Satsu weren't the only two girls sleeping together in that castle, not all of whom would have had to be, under normal circumstances, either gay or bisexual.

 

[Ianigsy]

Whatever happens in the comics aside, I think the hidden question here is why a fictional character's sexuality has exercised people so much over the last ten years or so (and I'll confess to having juggled it in my head for a while myself a few years back).

It may be due to the way that Willow's crush on Xander and relationship with Oz were depicted as very sweet and cutesy and so by the time Tara came along, fans had two or three years' worth of emotional investment in that triangle. Or it may be to do with Alyson Hannigan's own attractiveness. I suspect that in hindsight there are one or two things that the producers would have done differently along the way with the direction that the character developed (when we see Willow and Oz after they've had sex for the first time, there's no indication on her part that it was anything other than enjoyable), but I do know that Willow as a positive and sympathetic gay character means a lot to quite a number of people.

 

[GATEGOD]

I have always been on the mind set that she was in love with Oz. That Oz was her true love. That if the writers didn't concoct some cockamamie reason for why Oz/Willow couldn't be together, (he turns into the thing he hates most) that they would have ended up together.

If Seth Green had stayed on the show, I don't believe Willow would have turned gay. She wasn't gay until he left. She was clearly straight and in deep love with him. I hated this change because I loved Oz, back when he was on the show he was my favorite character. My love of Oz also made me hate Tara, I'm spiteful that way. But more so I believe I didn't like Tara because I hated how she was, how she acted, and how meak and weird she was. Tara was never attractive to me, she was never smart, or funny, or charismatic. She annoyed me, and was the reason (in the show, in my mind) why Oz/Willow weren't together. So I never bought the Willow/Tara relationship.

Then once Tara died, Willow started a small thing with Kennedy... and randomly I loved that, because I liked Kennedy. I bought their relationship more. I still feel, though, that if Seth Green hadn't left the show when he did, they would have ended up getting married and having little wolf babies. So I'm conflicted.

In the end I was always of the belief that Willow was straight until the Seth Green decided to leave the show. Then the writers had to reorganize where her character was going to go, and super witchy lesbian girl manifested. Maybe had she have fallen for a character I liked, I would have been a bigger fan of that relationship, or maybe if just another actor had played Tara, but that didn't happen. So, story wise, Willow was straight, then lesbian, then woulda been with Oz again... so straight, but Oz leaves again... so lesbian again. In the show, because of how long we got to see with her and Tara, it did eventually become believable, but for a long time, for me, it wasn't.

It didn't seem planned out from the start of the show, because it wasn't. Whether you agree with me or think my hatred of Tara has clouded my judgement, don't roast me for my opinion. I just never enjoyed her. I do think Willow eventually became 100% lesbian in the show, so in the end that is all that matters. But it was odd how and why it occurred. If not for the decision of one super epicly cool ginger haired short actor man, Tara would never have been there and Willow wouldn't have liked her.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

Just my personal opinions on the subjects mentioned above

Willow is, to me at least, bisexual. She loved both Oz and Tara with all her heart, so you can't say that she loved one gender more than the other.

As for Buffy, after Season 8, I would put her in the bisexual 'camp' as well, considering that she had sex with another Slayer, and then a few volumes later was having sex with Angel again.

 

[tec]

But more so I believe I didn't like Tara because I hated how she was, how she acted, and how meek and weird she was. Tara was never attractive to me, she was never smart, or funny, or charismatic. She annoyed me, and was the reason (in the show, in my mind) why Oz/Willow weren't together. So I never bought the Willow/Tara relationship.

I don't know we might be seeing a diffrant sides of Tara I think Tara is a warm loving person that cares deeply about all the scoobies her wierdness was her trying hard to fit in she wanted to be loved by all of them.
And as far as Tara not being attractive. Gonna have to completely disagree with you here her warm smokey eyes are very captivating. and I find both Tara and Amber very beautiful.

 

[Robb Stark]

If Seth Green had stayed on the show, I don't believe Willow would have turned gay. She wasn't gay until he left. She was clearly straight and in deep love with him. I hated this change because I loved Oz, back when he was on the show he was my favorite character. My love of Oz also made me hate Tara, I'm spiteful that way. But more so I believe I didn't like Tara because I hated how she was, how she acted, and how meak and weird she was. Tara was never attractive to me, she was never smart, or funny, or charismatic. She annoyed me, and was the reason (in the show, in my mind) why Oz/Willow weren't together. So I never bought the Willow/Tara relationship.

I grew to like Tara. At the beginning however, I had similar feelings. I was a big Oz fan and it seemed very awkward that Willow was suddenly gay. There was definitely a bit of the "Riley syndrome" with Tara for me. I know she's a very popular character, and I really got it as the show progressed (particularly through all of S6), but when she initially replaced Oz I felt like she was written poorly. I never felt like Oz was an integral part of the show, but he added a lot at the same time. Tara, both as a character and regarding her place on the show, felt really awkward to me through all of S4.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I always thought Willow was bisexual until S5 and even then there was still some lingering doubts in that season (Tough Love) and the other 2 seasons.

Season 5 was when the whole "GAY NOW" thing started. Before then I just took it as Willow was still riding the fence, and apparently behind the scenes she was still riding the fence in S6 until the writers went a different way than they had planned in S7.

It would make sense for Willow to fall for a lady and then try to become The Best Lesbian She Can Be and try to ignore anything that would throw that into doubt.

 

[SMG14Fan]

I have never believed that Willow was a lesbian. She clearly had very strong feelings for both Xander and Oz, so I think, at best, she's bisexual.
However, being bisexual doesn't mean you always have feelings for both sexes; I have many bisexual friends who have been mainly attracted to people of one sex for years, but they still claim bisexuality because they never say never to the possibility that someone may come along and change their mind. I myself, am a bisexual woman who has been married to a man for 10 years. Does this make me straight? No because I am still attracted to women, and if I were to ever get divorced (God forbid), I would gladly enter into a same-sex relationship if I met the right woman and fell in love.
For these reasons, I don't accept Willow being strictly lesbian. After Tara, we have only ever seen her with Kennedy. Who's to say that if another man came into her life that she wouldn't be attracted to and fall for him? It's happened in the past, so I think it could happen again. However, for fandom's sake, if Willow was going to get back to "driving stick", as Faith put it, I would hope it would be with Oz.

I agree with this. Willow was definitely in love with Oz. There was no "something about this doesn't feel right." It was very much a real romance until Oz left town. This is why the writers making her strictly gay just seems off to me. In my opinion, she's bi-sexual. She may have a larger preference for women, but she's still capable of loving a man.

 

[EffieT1]

Once I saw this thread I knew that I had to comment because this is a topic Im so passionate about (weird huh). I dont know if anyone had made or criticized these points yet but I just had to vent a little(with this being the best place to do so- none of my friends appreciate me whining to them as though Buffy is real). It bugged me how Willow suddenly made the Transaction to lesbian. Im going to be flat out honest I am such an Oz fan, I hated Tara at first (although later on with no Oz in sight I got to like her) and my heart nearly broke when Willow picked her over Oz.
Basically my point is that it really irked me how the writers made willow gay instead of bisexual because I felt that somewhat invalidated her Oz relationship (disagree if you wish). I would have much prefer if theyd recognised her past guy loves (few as they may have been) and represented wilow as bi but there are several instances of willow refrencing herself as full on gay, further cemented by the fact that after Tara she dates another girl-Kennedy (who I hate), although i accept that post Tara her new love interest would have to be female otherwise Joss would have been seen as anti-gay i.e killing Tara to replace her with a dude.

 

[white avenger]

I never saw any question of gay/bisexual/just plain confused in the issue. To me, Willow was sincerely in love with at a particular stage in her life, and will always hold their time together as something precious, she, like most people, moved on with her life after he left Sunnydale. That's perfectly normal. Folks do it all the time.

Willow met Tara, and they just connected. They shared an interest in REAL magic,not the cake bake sale version that was going on in college. They were both, basically, alone (it would really have helped if we had more background material on Tara,primarily, whether she had had any sort of romantic relationship prior to coming to college. Just at a guess,I would say,probably not) and both going through similar traumatic experiences. Willow had just lost Oz, and Tara had just lost her mother. They were both alone, lonely, and in need of someone to love and to have someone love them.

Willow and Tara were two lonely people who met and fell in love. Gender had little or nothing to do with it.

And, before anyone tries to point out Willow's relationship with Kennedy as any kind of affirmation of anything, I am of the opinion that none of that would ever have happened if it weren't for Willow's extremely vulnerable state of mind, combined with Kennedy's highly aggressive actions and tongue stud.

 

[Lyri]

Basically my point is that it really irked me how the writers made willow gay instead of bisexual because I felt that somewhat invalidated her Oz relationship (disagree if you wish). I would have much prefer if theyd recognised her past guy loves (few as they may have been) and represented wilow as bi but there are several instances of willow refrencing herself as full on gay, further cemented by the fact that after Tara she dates another girl-Kennedy

A LOT of gay men and women first had relationships with people of the opposite sex, before they discover their true selves, usually in college or in their early 20's, and yet they still consider themselves as gay/lesbian. It doesn't dismiss or demean or invalidate their first loves/relationships, it just means that they have grown as a person and have truly come to know themselves and come to terms with or discovered what they are really attracted to.

Willow sees herself as a gay woman, and that is how she refers to herself. Her stating this doesn't mean that she didn't love Oz or that she wants to forget he ever existed (S8 proves that she still cares deeply for him) but it shows us that Willow has grown as a person and come to terms with her sexuality.

As far as the OP goes, Willow refers to herself as gay/a lesbian and I have no reason to believe she's anything other than that.

I mean, Buffy had an affair with Satsu, but she still considers herself to be straight, and there isn't a thread here wondering if we should consider Buffy to be bisexual now, right? So why can't the same be said for Willow?

 

[EffieT1]

My problem is that viewing Willow as gay makes me feel like something should have been missing in her relationship with oz, some kind of spark or lack of sexual tension but I dont see that, their relationship (to me) is kinda perfect so for Will to backtrack and be like 'oh actually Im gay (not even bi) just makes me feel like there should have been warning signs in her hetero relationship (although one could argue that the writers didn know then or that there were warning signs in episodes like Doppleganger). To be honest if Tara was introduced right after her Xander crush as her first relationship it would probably have been easier on me even though I grew to like them as a couple.
Dont know if Im just repeating myself but I hope that expands on what I prviously said. Ps: As a viewer Im allowed to deconstruct characters but to be honest if willow were one of my friends id accept her switch without question, and maybe even try and date oz myself (jokes)

 

[Lyri]

just makes me feel like there should have been warning signs in her hetero relationship

Why did there need to be 'warning' signs? That's a very negative term to use, in my opinion.

Up until she met and fell in love with Tara, Willow considered herself to be straight because she had never been exposed to the idea of a lesbian relationship and there was never a woman or a girl to whom she was attracted. And so her relationship with Oz played out that way - as a straight couple, because, at the time, that was exactly what they were.

As a viewer Im allowed to deconstruct characters

I'm sorry if anyone (myself included) gave the impression that you weren't allowed to deconstruct any character. I just found your points a little confounding and thus had to reply.

 

[EffieT1]

Why did there need to be 'warning' signs? That's a very negative term to use, in my opinion.


I'm sorry if anyone (myself included) gave the impression that you weren't allowed to deconstruct any character. I just found your points a little confounding and thus had to reply.

Oh, Id just like to clarify, when I said 'Im allowed to deconstruct characters' it wasnt meant as defensive against you or anyone else what I meant was that whereas in reality if someone made that kind of switch from dude to dudette one could just brush it off as 'life,' or as the understandable evolution of someone's sexuality but in a place like the buffyverse which is purely fictional one can break down characters actions and blame it on plot devices or writers, which is why I followed up that comment about deconstruction by saying that my real world reaction to a change in sexuality would be different. Hope that helps but you definetely didnt make me feel like I couldnt 'deconstruct', after all thats what the buffy boards is about.

Oh and i didnt mean to give the phrase 'warning signs' any negative connotations its just that as an oz fan his replacement by a girl no less, makes me sad because its like he's truly being replaced in every way possible
Ps: I love the Buffy boards, a place where i can have actual indepth dicussions about the lives of fictional characters (unlike when i try and drag my friends-most of whom havent even seen buffy- into such discussions).

 

[Robb Stark]

Willow and Tara were two lonely people who met and fell in love. Gender had little or nothing to do with it.

This is exactly how I've always felt about it.

I have no problem accepting Willow as gay. The only issue that makes it a bit confusing is that Willow is never shown to experience anything but happiness, pleasure and contentment when she sleeps with Oz, both physically and emotionally. So it does then seem a little strange that after Tara, the point of that isn't even raised.