Worst death ever?

[Xin Rong]

I was watching angel series 5 when Illyria's talking about wesley getting drunk and calling her a smurf (so funny) because he cant get over Fred, and i thought to myself why is it taking so long for him to "move on" etc when usually characters don't stay fixated on the death of another character that often, then it hit me, wes couldn't move on because there's no way he could comfort himself with statements like "she's gone to a better place" etc because we know she didn't she was completely destroyed. Everything that Fred was is now gone, how can anyone get over that, at least every other character who died in buffyverse they knew that a part of them still existed and with the return of so many characters from the dead there is always hope that one day they may return but for wes there is just no hope whatsoever, Fred's gone and ther's nothing that can ever bring her back, which is why I came to the conclusion that Fred's death was quite simply the worst death ever!

 

[Croft Storm]

Is being completely gone really so bad though...no more pain. I agree that he found it hard because there was no way for her to come back, this adds a really blunt edge to the death. But had she gone to a hell dimension like Angel or Connor I still think it would be worse, even if there was a chance of her returning. And there was huge part of Fred in Illria, which makes it a bit better, depending on how you look at it.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I was watching angel series 5 when Illyria's talking about wesley getting drunk and calling her a smurf (so funny) because he cant get over Fred, and i thought to myself why is it taking so long for him to "move on" etc when usually characters don't stay fixated on the death of another character that often, then it hit me, wes couldn't move on because there's no way he could comfort himself with statements like "she's gone to a better place" etc because we know she didn't she was completely destroyed. Everything that Fred was is now gone, how can anyone get over that, at least every other character who died in buffyverse they knew that a part of them still existed and with the return of so many characters from the dead there is always hope that one day they may return but for wes there is just no hope whatsoever, Fred's gone and ther's nothing that can ever bring her back, which is why I came to the conclusion that Fred's death was quite simply the worst death ever!

I don't agree. Probably because Fred's death bored me to tears.

 

[Jenny]

I don't agree. Probably because Fred's death bored me to tears.

I know of alot of people who felt that same way. It was quite a long death and I think you'd have to be a Fred fan not to be bored.

As for the worst death...well I think every death could in some way be argued the worst. For me, probably Angel in Becoming Pt. 2. He regains his soul and the next thing he knows his true love is running a sword through him. Then, he spends the next who knows how long in some horrible demon demension. No peaceful rest, no 'poof' nothing left...hundereds of years of torture.

Sounds pretty horrible to me!

 

[Watcher's Pet]

Re: Worst Death Ever

I wind up crying every time I see it because she was one of my fave characters.

I wonder if they really would have done something to sort of bring her back if they'd had another season.

 

[pyromaniac]

I think even a Fred hater would have had to have been moved by that death, even i was blubbery. As for Wes not moving on, I suppose its hard when your constantly looking at the person you love even if you know its not her. When most people die they're not walking around in skin tight leather afterwards. I suppose that would make it hard to move on from.

 

[goldenboy]

Alright, just watched "A Hole in the World" again. Was dreading it because Fred was one of my favorites. And, personally, I'll agree: it's the worst death ever in the Buffyverse.

It strikes me as being the first "real" death in the Buffyverse. Or, the first presentation of a death from the atheistic perspective, Joss's perspective. Once you're dead, that's it. Everything, mind, body, soul, psyche: all gone.

Angel and Spike have that theoretical discussion about cavemen and astronauts. Later, as Fred's dying, "the cavemen win", she says. No technology, medicine can provide immortality.

It seemed a little like one of the more depressing "er" episodes. The patient is resigned to her fate. The docs struggle for awhile, rage against fate, then give up themselves. All fantasy, dreams removed.

That's how I perceive Joss's "angry atheism". Yelling at a god that would let this happen, an indifferent god. Or just screaming at the void. There's something obscene about death from the atheistic point of view. Like a sick joke. Which seems more horrifying, burning in hellfire or ceasing to exist?

Interestingly, this is the first episode in the 'verse I can recall where a character (Lorne) says he's going to pray. And not to some hellgod. Just pray, for Fred. Is that Joss speaking?

 

[Faith]

I wouldn't say it was the worst death ever, for me that would be Joyce's death. As it was human and something that people face everyday, unlike a God from the old world taking over your body. I know many people like myself that when watching it thought about how they would feel if it was their own mother. Unlike a God from the old world taking over your body.

 

[Joamna]

I can't really say if it was the worst or second worst death but it was without a doubt one of the worst one. Fred was my favourit character so just that made the death horrible(r). It feels kind of strange to compare deaths and say which one's the worst.. but this one is the one that makes me the most scared anyway.. I agree that the fact that she really was gone, in the atheistic way, made it even worse. For me that's the most horrifying thought about death, to be completly gone, it's so
un-understandable and not at all comforting.

 

[goldenboy]

Yeah, I guess it depends upon one's personal feelings about an afterlife, or lack thereof. Or conclusions about what exactly did happen to Fred.

We don't ultimately know what happened to Joyce or Tara, do we?

Another thing that amped up the horror factor for me was that Fred knew she was dying. She knew she would die a slow agonizing death. Joyce, maybe for a few seconds. Tara, had no clue what even happened to her.

 

[Joamna]

Another thing that amped up the horror factor for me was that Fred knew she was dying. She knew she would die a slow agonizing death. Joyce, maybe for a few seconds. Tara, had no clue what even happened to her.

And it was not only Fred who knew she was going to die, everyone around her knew too and not being able to save her (and Fred not being able to save herself) must have been awful.. seeing her slowly fading away but not being able to stop it.

 

[Faith]

We don't ultimately know what happened to Joyce or Tara, do we?

Another thing that amped up the horror factor for me was that Fred knew she was dying. She knew she would die a slow agonizing death. Joyce, maybe for a few seconds. Tara, had no clue what even happened to her.

What do you mean but we don't know what happened to Joyce or Tara, do you mean the afterlife?

Well Joyce knew that she had Cancer, so the possibility of death may (I say may because i've never been in that situation and don't want to assume) have entered into her mind. Especially as she would be leaving two daughters behind.

 

[goldenboy]

That's true about Joyce, she was long suffering and death was much on her and everyone else's mind during the tumor phase. And yes, afterlife was what I was thinking.

 

[Joamna]

But Joyce thought she was healthy again.. she had the tumor removed, and even though the doctor said to Buffy that Joyce was aware of the risks it didn't seem like anyone was very worried when Joyce was back home after the surgery.

 

[goldenboy]

That's true as well. Joyce had just had a date with a nice guy and things were looking up. Then Joss pulls the rug again. D'oh!

 

[Amy Acker]

I don't think her dealth was a boring but i didn't like how it was all played out at all. maybe you are all right but i think they dragged it out way to long plus i didn't like that she died for that fact!

 

[Ariana's Curse]

I don't know about the 'worst' death ever- I've gotta say that every death over the years has affected me differently: I cried at the death of Jenny Calendar because of the way Giles discovered her- I thought that was a really brutal moment for his heart. The death of Angel was awful- I cried a huge amount; mainly because of the fact that he had regained his soul and also seeing the pain in Buffy's eyes when she realised she would still have to kill him. The death of Joyce in season five was a real unexpected jolt which completely turned everything upside down- and like many have said, it was one of the first times we've seen a real scenario rock the show. Buffy's death at the end of season five was incredible as it showed just how much love she had for her sister and although we knew that she would come back- it still reduced me to tears. Tara's death was horrible because it came at a really heartwrenching time- she and Willow had only just found each other again- only to be torn apart once more. Anya's death was hugely unexpected and sudden- it made tears spring into my eyes to see the funniest character just sliced in half as if she were nothing- and especially afterward when Xander was calling for her and they cut to a shot of her body- that hurt. And Spike's death- again, completely unexpected; and it broke my heart that Buffy had to leave him; knowing she would never see him again. It felt like the end of an era and that's probably when I cried the most.
But then I heard Spike was to return so I began watching the final series of Angel (having not watched any of the others) and I immediately grew attached to the characters. It didn't even matter that Spike was in it- I fell in love with Fred and Wesley and they became my favourite chartacters. Then Fred died and I cried more for that death than any of the others- I can still cry about it now. I wouldn't necesarily say it was the worst- but definately the most touching.
Fred was a brand new character to me but she instantly became my favourite ever with her optimism and sweetness- she overtook all others in my heart. I think she's just one of those characters that work there way into your heart immediately- which is why her heart touched so many.
I don't think her death was dragged out for too long- I think it was perfect and it really touched me.
The fact that her whole being was destroyed still hurts me as she was such a wonderful woman and I believe you're right about that being the reason for Wesley's prolonged agony.

 

[Feigenbaum]

I believe that the aspects that make Fred's death horrible are that she was hollowed out (her organs/brain were liquified) and her soul was destroyed.

Angel said it best..."..A demon sets up shop in your body, but it doesn't get your soul". Whether you die by natural causes or by a demon, your soul is normally intact and sent to whatever afterlife you believe in. In the case of Fred, she had no chance for an afterlife. As we all know, her sould was consumed, destroyed. What stinks is that she was pure... many people said that her character was the light, and could 'warm people up'. (Remember, that's why Knox chose her). So, because her essence was destroyed to bring an old one to life to destroy the world really makes a difference.

 

[Roonblah]

The reasons stated above are what makes me think of Fred's death as sad. She was a character I liked, and I was a closet Fred/Angel shipper ever since she first appeared. The idea that Fred was not going to a better place but was being eaten alive to make way for something else was heartbreaking. Illyria grew on me and I was so chuffed for Amy Acker, but I still miss Fred. It made Wesley's death so much sadder when Illyria "lied" to him. That's something that I think would be hard to top had the WB let it continue.

 

[LadyLavinia]

If it weren't for that ridiculous Wes/Fred romance and her drawn out death scene, I wouldn't have been bored by Fred's death.