Xanders worst moment

[Willowsgirl]

Xander has done some incredibly stupid things throughout the series. Equally I think they all stink. Lying in The Pack, having a tantrum because Buffy tells him she doesn't 'feel it', his entire treatment of Angel, but none of this bothers me as much as his general attitude - the hypocrisy, and the nastiness.

I feel I like I need to defend Xander. I don't get how Xander was nasty. He was always a loyal and true friend to Buffy excluding when he wasn't himself. His treatment of Angel I think of as just a jealous teenage boy with a crush. I mean who hasn't had those feelings whether they are male or female? Despite all the things he did and said that could be seen as stupid or mean, in the end he was always there for Buffy and the rest of the gang. He did after all give Buffy CPR when she was died at the end of the first season, he was the one who talked Willow down when she went crazy, etc. I love Xander for his loyalty and how he was always there when the rest of the gang needed him.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Okay, then by this logic, we can't blame Buffy and the Scoobies for treating soulless Spike badly, since he'd kill/rape/attack them any second if he got that chip out. They shouldn't give him a chance. Ever.

When Xander told Dawn about Spike, he was Spike the same Spike who tried to rape Buffy, he didn't get a soul yet.

Exactly. I never got the "We have to be nice to Spike" approach. I think they should have staked him in season 4.

True, in season 6, it would have looked bad, because he was nice-ish, but I think he was a danger then too.

 

[TheChosenTwo]

Xander is my favourite BTVS character, so I feel the need to defend him and say that he didn't really have any 'worst' moments, just bad decisions, or bad timing.

One of his worse bad decisions was definitely not telling Buffy about Willow trying to resort Angel's soul. While I can see that Angelus was an evil SOB, Xander wasn't really trying to protect the world from Angelus. He was doing it for purely selfish reasons, to get rid of Angel, even though he was already with Cordy at this stage.

^^^ I totally agree with you

 

[InsaneMystic]

Definitely the "Kick his ass" moment in Becoming. Absolutely WRONG.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

For years I was pissed of at Xander for saying "kick his ass", because I thought he just said it out of jealousy, but now I think he did the right thing (and hope he did it because it was the right thing, not out of jelaousy).

If Buffy has hesitated when fighting Angel, she might have died.

A bit of topic, but; Notice in Selfless how Xander and Buffy has changed since Season 2? Before Xander was the one who said "We kill demons, Angelus a demon, let's not save him/reensoul him" but now, he's the one saying "let's help, not kill". Is it just because it's HIS girlfriend in question, or has he actually grown? If Angel lost his soul again and Buffy wanted to help him, would Xander object?

Thoughts?

Dialouge from Selfless:

BUFFY: She's not the Anya that you knew, Xander. She's a demon.

XANDER: That doesn't mean you have to kill her.

BUFFY: Don't act like this is easy for me. You know it's not.

XANDER: There are other options.

BUFFY: I've considered them.

XANDER: When? Just now? Took you all of ten seconds to decide to kill one of your best friends?

BUFFY: The thought that it might come to this has occurred to me before. It's occurred to you, too.

XANDER: But we can change what she did. Fix it. These are mystical deaths, right? There has to be something.

WILLOW: I don't have anywhere near that kind of power. I didn't have that kind of power when? And I-I don't think I trust the power I do have.

BUFFY: (to Willow) It's OK. Xander, I know this is hard for you to hear, but it's what I have to do.

XANDER: Hard for me to hear? Buffy, you wanna kill Anya!

BUFFY: I don't want to.

XANDER: Then don't! This isn't new ground for us. When our friends go all crazy and start killing people, we help them.

WILLOW: Sitting right here.

XANDER: I'm sorry. But it's true.

BUFFY: It's different.

XANDER: Because you don't care about her the same way I do. Buffy, I still love her.

BUFFY: I know. And that's why you can't see this for what it really is. Willow was different. She's a human. Anya's a demon.

XANDER: And you're the slayer. I see now how it's all very simple.

BUFFY: It is never simple.

XANDER: No, of course not. You know, if there's a mass-murdering demon that you're, oh, say, boning, then it's all gray area.

BUFFY: Spike was harmless. He was helping.

XANDER: He had no choice.

BUFFY: And Anya did! She chose to become a demon. Twice.

XANDER: You have no idea what she's going through.

BUFFY: I don't care what she's going through!

XANDER: No, of course not. You think we haven't seen all this before? The part where you just cut us all out. Just step away from everything human and act like you're the law. If you knew what I felt?

More dialouge:Buffyverse Dialogue Database - CLIP: 'Buffy: I have to kill Anya.'

 

[Willowsgirl]

Exactly. I never got the "We have to be nice to Spike" approach. I think they should have staked him in season 4.

True, in season 6, it would have looked bad, because he was nice-ish, but I think he was a danger then too.

Hey now! Spike is an amazing character and proved to be useful in more than just season 6. In season 5 when he refused to tell Glory anything about Dawn being the Key. In season 4 he fought alongside the gang when they went to face Adam. Even in season 2 when he teamed up with Buffy to stop Angel. And of course in season 7 when he gave his life to close the hell mouth and save the world. My point is that every step of the way Spike was there to help.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Xanders worst moment - pretty much the same moment every single day right after he says to himself 'what shall I wear today?'

 

[sosa lola]

Skytteflickan88 agrees: I agree with a lot you say, but the jelousy thing got out of hand. He even wanted to kill Angel before Season 2's madness, just because he was jealous.

When did that happen?

A bit of topic, but; Notice in Selfless how Xander and Buffy has changed since Season 2? Before Xander was the one who said "We kill demons, Angelus a demon, let's not save him/reensoul him" but now, he's the one saying "let's help, not kill". Is it just because it's HIS girlfriend in question, or has he actually grown? If Angel lost his soul again and Buffy wanted to help him, would Xander object?

Thoughts?

It's simple. Xander fell in love. To him, Anya is their friend, and if it was okay to save Willow from herself, why not Anya? I've always thought Selfless was a turning point in Xander's character. After that episode, he agreed to have Spike live with him again and his attitude toward him changed 100%, notice how much he started to trust Buffy with him and never spoke ill of him after Him. Never Leave Me is the best episode to show how much Xander grew and changed.

 

[Kanazaka]

For worst moments, I'll go with Xander having sex with Faith and cheating on Cordelia by kissing Willow. Xander has made other poor decisions due to his hormonal urges, but many of these decision were made when he was under the influence of a demon (and I include the hyena in this category). Faith and Willow were purely conscious decisions. Yes, Faith made the first move on that occasion, but Xander passively let it happen. Could he have fought her off? Probably not, but theoretically he could have ran away (even though it wouldn't be the manly thing to do). I don't hate Xander because he had sex with Faith; that was mainly just a poor judgement call. Willow was a far worse judgement lapse, because he deeply hurt Cordelia's feelings.

As for Xander breaking off his wedding to Anya, I feel that this is quite complicated. Xander let his insecurities get the best of him by believing the demon's lies, but as he also says in "Hell's Bells", Xander didn't solely base his decision on these lies. It was clear to him that his family didn't get along with Anya's friends and relatives, because they were prejudiced against demons. It was also clear that Anya's friends and relatives didn't like Xander's family, at least partly because they were human (but mostly because of the aforementioned prejudiced attitudes). This family conflict would have seriously hurt their marriage. Also, it's very possible that Xander identified with some or all of the demon's lies, particularly his strong feelings toward Buffy and his problems with his children (as well as his children's problems with their own lives).

As for Xander's hatred for Angel, and how he uses this hatred to cruelly hurt Buffy's feelings, I'm a bit torn. If we all believe that Spike and Angel redeem themselves by committing heroic acts and becoming Buffy's loyal friends, then yes, Xander was way out of line for betraying Buffy in that manner. But if some of us choose to believe that Spike and Angel can never redeem themselves because vampires can never possess a shred of humanity (even with souls), then the issue becomes more cloudy. Of course, that would also make Xander a hypocrite, as has been pointed out, since he fell in love with Anya even though she was once a mass-murdering demon (and he forgave her for returning to her old ways). At face value, human-demon love is pretty wrong no matter what, and almost akin to bestiality, depending on your perspective (especially if you agree that no human can consciously commit demonic acts when possessed by a demon). But if you look at these relationships (Buffy-Spike, Willow-Oz, Buffy-Angel, Xander-Anya) from the perspective of separating the demon from the human, and viewing the relationships as human-human relationships, then betrayal is betrayal, because it's unfair to cruelly punish someone for whom they chose to love. If Angel was always a bastard toward Buffy, that would be different. But since that's not the case, then Xander had no right to say whether or not Buffy should love him. As for why Buffy attempting to kill Anya is different from Buffy killing Angel/Angelus, I agree with those who say that Anya made the decision to be a demon (and then a human, and then a demon again), while Angel didn't chose to initially become a vampire and couldn't chose when he became Angelus again. Well, theoretically he could try, if he wanted to try to attain a moment of pure happiness, and he did willingly become Angelus that one time, but that was for the greater good (and more importantly, Buffy didn't know about it).

Overall, on the plus side, Xander never consciously killed someone, even though he attempted to kill Angel and Spike. But if you count attempts as mortal sins, and you consider murder to be a worse sin than adultery, then those murder attempts were his worse moments. It's complicated, so I'll just end there and read what you all have to say.

 

[Phantom Dennis]

His actions in 'Selfless' really grinded my gears. He isn't even aware that he's mirroring the Buffy and Angel thing. Buffy bringing up killing Angel during their talk really justifies what she has to do but all Xander can do is think about what HE wants, ugh.

 

[Kanazaka]

To caitaintdead --

In response to your reputation comment, I think someone among the Scoobie Gang comments that Xander shouldn't have slept with Faith, probably she is morally suspect and eventually sides with Mayor Wilkins (who is evil). At the time, I'm pretty sure Xander was still in a quasi-relationship with Cordelia when he slept with Faith, so it's technically cheating. Would I have done the same thing, if I wasn't in a relationship? Possibly, since Faith is pretty hot. But I don't think it was one of Xander's better ideas, since he was kind of sleeping with the enemy, so to speak, even if he didn't know it. I hope that answers your question!

 

[sosa lola]

To caitaintdead --

In response to your reputation comment, I think someone among the Scoobie Gang comments that Xander shouldn't have slept with Faith, probably she is morally suspect and eventually sides with Mayor Wilkins (who is evil). At the time, I'm pretty sure Xander was still in a quasi-relationship with Cordelia when he slept with Faith, so it's technically cheating. Would I have done the same thing, if I wasn't in a relationship? Possibly, since Faith is pretty hot. But I don't think it was one of Xander's better ideas, since he was kind of sleeping with the enemy, so to speak, even if he didn't know it. I hope that answers your question!

By the time Xaner slept with Faith, she was one of them. It was the episode after The Zeppo where Faith kills a human and starts to freak out. And I can't see why it would be cheating when Xander slept with Faith, he wasn't with Cordelia anymore. I wouldn't call it cheating. I would call it a one fling that Xander innocently thought it was more than that.

 

[Kean]

"Kick his ass".

The he ruined lives with those three words.

 

[CrankyMiss]

Xander's -and also Wllow and Joyce and Cordelia's but especially Xander's- treatment of Buffy when she came back in Dead Man's Party. I can no longer even watch that episode for wanting to pick up something and throw it through my television. Xander was partially to blame for Buffy bailing (I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, that "Kick His Ass" comment is a huge factor in how things played out) and he made it clear that he didn't want to know or care what she was going through. The comments he made about Buffy hurting her mother were completely out of line especially since he didn't know the full details. Joyce told Buffy to leave. She kicked her out of her home. I don't care if she was upset or angry or whatever, you don't kick your child out of the house. Did Xander know about this conversation? NO. So he should have kept his fat mouth shut on the subject entirely. There were other things said during that episode but I can't remember them since it's been a long while since I watched it.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Xander's -and also Wllow and Joyce and Cordelia's but especially Xander's- treatment of Buffy when she came back in Dead Man's Party. I can no longer even watch that episode for wanting to pick up something and throw it through my television. Xander was partially to blame for Buffy bailing (I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, that "Kick His Ass" comment is a huge factor in how things played out) and he made it clear that he didn't want to know or care what she was going through. The comments he made about Buffy hurting her mother were completely out of line especially since he didn't know the full details. Joyce told Buffy to leave. She kicked her out of her home. I don't care if she was upset or angry or whatever, you don't kick your child out of the house. Did Xander know about this conversation? NO. So he should have kept his fat mouth shut on the subject entirely. There were other things said during that episode but I can't remember them since it's been a long while since I watched it.

Ok, pull your fangs out for a second. Hasn't anyone ever done anything to you that made you so angry you said things you probably shouldn't have said?? Xander was angry at Buffy for leaving. He didn't understand why she left, and he felt angry at her for making everyone worry and leaving them to do HER job in Sunnydale. He had a right to be angry at her, but he should have tried harder to calm HIS emotions down long enough for Buffy to explain herself. But Buffy should have explained her absence long before she did to the Scoobies. They had all faught side by side and they deserved the truth from her instead of dodgy excuses. Some people might say Buffy wasn't obligated to explain exactly what happened to them, and maybe they're right, but these people were her family, even if not all by blood and they deserved to at least know what happened, even if they didn't understand Buffy's reaction. But she didn't give them that, so they were all confused, upset, and hurt. Xander's and Joyce's reactions in a situation like that were perfectly normal and acceptable.

 

[sosa lola]

I agree with HisMrs, while Xander was out of line, try to put yourself in his shoes. Your friend disappeares for three months, doesn't tell you where she is, doesn't even pick up a phone and reassure you that she's fine, that she's alive. Three months you wantch Giles trying to locate her, you watch her mother freaking out and falling into despair, you try to pick up her slack and do her job for her, you wonder every night if she's alive or dead, you start to lose faith that she's alive...

Then suddenly, she appears, Xander's first reaction was tearful eyes and choked up voice, so happy to see her back, but the anger and hurt he has inside comes to surface little by little until Buffy blows it up in his face by attempting to run away again. Of course, he's gonna explode.

I find this scene so true to life, and every character acted as human as possible. I tend to side with Buffy in that scene, but I completely understand where the other characters coming from, it's really not that easy to have your friend vanish like that. Really really not easy.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I like Xander, I really do. But the worst thing he did was now telling Buffy about that Willow is trying to get Angel's soul back. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference, but he should've told her. But leaving Anya is second on my list. And I really don't like what he did to Cordy. She grow up from season 1 to season 3, and I was really sorry for her.

 

[Misty]

I think Xander's worst moments were when he was cheating on Cordy with Willow, because I'm a huge Cordy and Xander shipper. And right after his break up with Cordy, he had sex with Faith.

 

[sosa lola]

I loved the sex with Faith. It was fun, I especially love that Xander didn't think it was that great. The expression on Faith's face when he said that it was like a blur, priceless!

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

After that scene he was one step lower because I always saw him like a great character, and for me that was far from great. I'm not saying Faith is bad as character, I found her very intersting, just I saw Xander having sex with someone he cares about. You can't say he is most romantic man, but he is not that kind of trash. But there is one important thing, he belived that because of that he knows her.