My experiences are a certainly strong influence on what ship I don't like. I see so much of my own experience (stuff I'm not at all proud of and glad not to be mired in it anymore) mirrored in Bangel that I can hardly stand the ship anymore. Crushy romantic illusions, talk of "forever" while going nowhere, and, of course, clinical depressive guy on hardcore guilt trip using pretty face girl to get some meaning into his life? Check. Check. And oh damn yes, check indeed. It's all too much "been there, done that" to me, and I don't like being shown that as if it were a good thing. 😛 Add to that Angel's dishonesty and manipulation, and you get one fierce anti-Bangel here.
You have such interesting strong opinions on Bangel. I always enjoy reading your posts. You basically say what I would like to say but am too scared too.
🙂
Now I do love the whole S2 storyline, but maybe it's to do a lot with Becoming. Romance should end in tragedy. Not only is it almost a law of nature ((sw)) but it's also been that way in fiction ever since Romeo/Juliet and Tristram/Iseult. Bangel would have made ONE HECK of a better story if Angel had not returned in S3 - that season nailed the coffin of me liking the ship firmly shut. 😛
Great point. We read Tristen and Isolde in my Medievel Romance class last year, and I really enjoyed it. So tragic! There are certainly parallels to be made between that story and others of its kind, and basically every other romance story since, from 'Casablanca' to Bangel to Edward and Bella. These stories are embedded in our culture. They are always getting recycled.
Another ship I really don't like is Killow. While I like Kennedy as a character, she's too "pushing on" Willow - conflicting with my ideal that you're supposed to accept people you love just how they are. That's not to mean not allowing for change/development, but growth, if and when it comes, should come naturally and not because of prodding. Also, it's simply way too early for Will to have a new relationship after Tara - getting into a new 'ship when not yet having overcome the trauma of the last one is never the best of ideas IMO.
Agreed. I can't stand Killow. I'm honestly shocked they're still together.
As for ships I do like - well, Tillow tops the list, but Spuffy has been catching up fast over the last few months. 🙂 (I doubt Spuffy ever takes over the top place, as Tillow, well, they're lesbians and I'm just not really into heterosexuality that much 😉 ).
Glad to see Spuffy is worming it's way into your heart. They're hard to resist, aren't they?
😉
Both ships have the undercurrent of just being there for each other, providing a nurturing stability without prodding each other on forward (and note: when I say "Spuffy" here, I mean S7. While I love the ship, I'm not one of those who say that Spike loved Buffy pre-soul). You also have the topics of making the hard decision to walk away because it's necessary, while still deeply caring for and loving the other (Tara in S6), which resonates just as well with me as the taking responsibility for bad things you did and facing the consequences (I see that in both Spike and Buffy post "Seeing Red", and I LOVE it). In both ships, there's the acceptance and forgiveness for things done wrong, while not pretending they're not there or became magically "undone"; compare that to Angel/Angelus... all the bad he did in S2 just could get chalked up to "evil alter ego", with the soul making ALL the difference - while the first Spuffy kiss was in "Intervention", long, long pre-soul. I never thought that Spike having a soul was what made the difference in S7, it was the fact of going out to get one. That's amends of a kind Captain Forehead can't even dream of, IMO. (Notice the pun on the title of an episode I'm always tempted to FFW through? 😛 )
Nice words. I agree!
And speaking of Captain Forehead, I would be much amiss not pointing out how both Spuffy and Tillow put a huge emphasis on issues of trust and honesty - there being more trust in Spuffy S7 than I ever saw in Bangel; Tara leaving Will over issues of lies and manipulation (again I must add, things that Angel does almost on a daily basis); and of course, Spike and Buffy being almost brutally honest to each other even back in S6 (painful to watch, but still preferrable to illusions and smokescreens, which makes S6 Spuffy slightly more mature than Bangel; I've said more than once that S6 Spuffy is very similar to S1-3 Bangel IMO, kinda being its dark mirror image)
So you have trust, honesty, earned forgiveness, realism, consequence, and giving each other freedom to grow into becoming a better, stronger person while foregoing attempts at manipulation/prodding. All are aspects integral to my idea of love, all making me a Tillow and a Spuffy - and a firm anti-Bangel and anti-Killow. 🙂
Well-said. I'm wondering though; how you do you feel about Briley?
---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------
Well, I guess it's my turn to say how I feel about this considering I was the one who started this thread.
Does your personal ideal of love in your own life and/or your own experience influence who you choose as your favorite 'ship(s)?
Yes and no. It's safe to say I've never had good luck with relationships. I'm not sure if it's that I choose the wrong people, or if it's because of something wrong I've done - but my relationships always seem to go sour. I think there are probobly many reasons for this, one being that I've been hurt in the past, and have a really hard time trusting people. Also, I know that I push people away without even trying. People think of me as being really independant, and the men I've dated have told me that they didn't feel "needed." Like I said, I think I choose the wrong guys. I also have this close friend who's a guy. In the past, this has been an issue, as my boyfriends can't deal with it.
Firstly, I wasn't even interested in dating until I was 17.
My first boyfriend in HS, Eddie, we had a
very unhealthy relationship. We are completely dependant on each other, verbally abusive, and fought all the time. We disagreed on everything, but for some reason, we couldn't stay away from each other. All of our friends thought we were awful together. We were together I'd say about a year. When I told him I was moving to WA state he threatened to kill himself. He was a manipulative jerk. It was pretty horrible. I'm glad I moved and got away from him. A few weeks later, a girl named Lauren called me from his phone and asked me who I was and why I was in his recently called list, and I told her I was his girlfriend but we had broken up because I had recently moved to Wa state. She told me she was his girlfriend. Neither of us knew about the other. Turned out he'd been seeing both of us the whole time. Yeah, it sucked. Ironically enough, she ended up moving down here and we became great friends
😉
After that, I dated quite a few different guys, but it never lasted more then maybe 6 months. Then I met this guy named Ryan, who I ended up dating on and off for around 4 years. We'd date other people, but always ended up back together. He was the only BF I think I ever fully trusted. In hindsight, I can see we broke up because we simply grew apart and were going in different directions in life. We loved each other and more or less had a healthy relationship, but I always had the feeling he was trying to change me to be interested in the things he liked to do, etc. This caused animosity on my part, and we just drifted apart. Yet, instead of being a mature adult and breaking up with me in person, we desided to move out when I was out of town visiting my mother. I came home, and all his stuff was gone. He lad left me a voice message saying we were "not combatible" and should be friends. Yeah. Needless to say, I was hurt and pissed. After all, this happened to be at a time when I was temporaily unemployed, and I couldn't pay his part of the rent on my own. We didn't speak for months, but now we're trying to be friends again. We were close for so many years. It's strange not to see him anymore.
We broke up last June. Now, I'm single in a sea of other singles, and I'm finding it really hard to meet new people. But good news is I'm so busy and don't have much time to "mingle" anyways.
Anyways, my point is that I've been with all sorts of different types of guys and in all sorts of different types of relationships. So, I can relate on some level to all of the 'ships in the show.
MY favorite 'ships are Cangel, Spuffy, and Tillow.
I've put alot of thought into why I'm so drawn to Spuffy, and I don't think it has anything to do with what my ideal of love is or that I can personally relate to what they went through together. I think it boild down to just this: I don't look for my life in the fiction I love. I look for the opposite - an
escape from my reality, which is let's face it, far less interesting then the fictional worlds my heart belongs too. I love the
[passion of Spuffy. Plus, simply put, I just think they're all kinds of interesting.
😉
Cangel, oh
Cangel. This 'ship breaks my heart. I can relate to having a friend that is dear to your heart whom you were convinced you had no romantic feelings for, and then they become this incredible, amazing person you start to admire so much. Then, one day you wake up and realize you're in love with that person , like Angel did. But by then it was too late; he/she was with someone else.
One of the things I think love ought to do is make two people better in some way. Two people in love should
compliment each other, support each other, and never,
ever try to change or control each other. For Angel, Cordelia
turned into the kind of person he could love and admire. For Buffy, Spike became her counterpart, a steadfast support in her life that would never, ever leave her. His love for her was strong enough to save the world.
Tillow: Along with Victor and Sierra, if ever there were two real soul mates in the anti-love Jossverse, these two were it. They were truly perfect together. Tara loved Willow selflessly and fully. As a result of knowing her, Willow was a better person for it.
