Your Opinion on Homosexuality.

[Flannen]

Hey, at least you aren't denied basic human rights.

I assume that this is a tongue in cheek comment, at least I hope it is, but I still can't resist commenting because I think it actually reflects some people's views (as in in the world, not just here).

Does that mean that it's okay to say hurtful things to EntertainUs because she, as you suggest, has equal rights?

This is getting to be a really complex issue that, now I've said my piece, I may step out of. I find it increasingly difficuly to see an argument for not being disrespectful and such when it seems only one type of view is considered respectful. In the same way that somone asked who has the right to judge what is a sin, who has the right to judge who can and can't have hurtful comments thrown at them? Or essentially what is right and wrong? Again, as Taake and I have both said, all you have is your personal responsibility and how you act and how you behave. If you want respect for what you believe it comes from having the stones to show respect for something you don't necessarily agree with. It's not about agreement but about understanding.

 

[theroyalgoat]

The problem is that gay people are still denied something as basic as equal rights and discriminated against on a regular basis because some people think homosexuality is wrong. Someone of a different race does have equal rights, even though some people (i.e. racists) think it's wrong. So you can't really compare the two (race and homosexuality).

Nah, but it's really the closest you can really come to while trying to debate about bigotry.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

I never said as long as it doesn't hurt someone. I've said a couple times that people should be allowed to express their opinions even if it does ruffle feather, is offensive, what not.
I wish that people would be a lot kinder to another. But that's not the world we live in and I'm not sure it will ever be. When we start limiting what people can and can't say it doesn't help really help anything. Those feelings are still there and they have a way coming out. If people are bottling up a little bit of resentment and isn't able to express how they feel and deal with the situation I believe it makes it a lot worse.
And beyond that where does it end? Are we just going to have strict rules on what's acceptable and what's not? Comedians everywhere would kill themselves.

I think that rather than fight every indiviual it makes a lot more sense to work on yourself. Become a strong, secure person who really couldn't care less what someone else thinks about him/her.

P.S. People thinking and saying that I am doing wrong doesn't hurt me in the slightest.

The fact that there always will be those opinions doesn't make it right or justify it. Right, it's never going to be completly gone, but it still hurts! Maybe it doesn't hurt you in particular, but some get hurt, even physically. It gets to the level of hate, and nothing can justify it. Hurting people is wrong, period. Someone who doesn't care that they're hurting people, doesn't deserve the same respect.

Last time someone named Hitler voiced his "okay to express" opinion 6 million Jews were murdered. There is a difference between expressing what you feel, and hurting people by it.

 

[The Unspoken]

I assume that this is a tongue in cheek comment, at least I hope it is, but I still can't resist commenting because I think it actually reflects some people's views (as in in the world, not just here).

Does that mean that it's okay to say hurtful things to EntertainUs because she, as you suggest, has equal rights?

This is getting to be a really complex issue that, now I've said my piece, I may step out of. I find it increasingly difficuly to see an argument for not being disrespectful and such when it seems only one type of view is considered respectful. In the same way that somone asked who has the right to judge what is a sin, who has the right to judge who can and can't have hurtful comments thrown at them? Or essentially what is right and wrong? Again, as Taake and I have both said, all you have is your personal responsibility and how you act and how you behave. If you want respect for what you believe it comes from having the stones to show respect for something you don't necessarily agree with. It's not about agreement but about understanding.

It was tongue in cheek...partly. It's not okay to say hurtful things to NEITHER side. However, it's hard for gay people to just sit back when they're discriminated against, can't marry, etc..

 

[Harley]

Hey, at least you aren't denied basic human rights.

Like respect? Or the ability to express my opinion without backlash?

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Like respect? Or the ability to express my opinion without backlash?

Again, you can express, but not hurt. I wasn't trying to lash on you, I just say you might hurt people, and I defend those people. I'm not gay myself, but I do feel for them. And I feel the need to defend them because they're doing nothing wrong and don't deserve to be disrespeted.

 

[theroyalgoat]

But don't you see that "spreading knowledge" is offensive? Don't you see that knocking on my door and tell me that I'm going to hell if I don't convert is deeply troubling? Can see see that I experience that hatred (albeit without violence) when someone says I'm going to hell, or that I'm an idiot for "praying to an idol"? (BTW, we're have a dialogue right now so you're not offending me. 🙂 )

I do see how some see it as offensive, that why I said it just pissed them off lol. I do understand that it is insulting to so. Just be honest with them and say, that's offensive, it's not what I believe and I'm not interested in discussing it. None of the Christians that I associate with would ever call someone an idiot for their beliefs. It says right in the Bible not to mock other Gods. I believe that is because God wants us to come to him freely and willingly. The people who threaten and ridicule aren't doing things the way God has told them to.

In California Obama got out the vote by encouraging Latinos to vote. Latinos are overwhelmingly Catholic, which finds homosexuality a sin. As a result, Obama was elected, and Prop 8 passed. Prop 8 is hateful to homosexuals and deprives them of fundamental Constitutional and human rights that others have.

Obama's made it clear that Don't Ask, Don't Tell will be dismanatled within his term. So I don't know. Politicians are always going back and forth.

I was an atheist until about age 30. At that time I went on a spiritual quest. I went to the woods in a travel trailer with a ton of books and my dog. For 3 days I did nothing but read (and eat). It was after 3 days that I discovered that Buddhism was my calling.

Here is a little blurb from the Dali Llama. BTW, I am not a Tibetian Buddhist, (I am Mahayana), but Buddhist don't argue amongst themselves and generally agree on most things.


---------------------------------------------------------



"Your holiness, what is the best religion?"

I thought he would say: "Tibetan Buddhism."

The Dalai Lama paused, smiled and looked me in the eyes

He answered:
 "The best religion is the one that gets you closest to God. It is the one that makes you a better person."

To get out of my embarrassment with such a wise answer, I asked: "What is it that makes me better?"

He responded:
"Whatever makes you:
more compassionate,
more sensible,
more detached,
more loving,
more humanitarian,
more responsible,
more ethical."
"The religion that will do that for you is the best religion"

I was silent for a moment, marveling and even today thinking of his wise and irrefutable response:

"I am not interested, my friend, about your religion or if you are religious or not.

"What really is important to me is your behavior in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world.

"Remember, the universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts."

"The law of action and reaction is not exclusively for physics. It is also of human relations. 
If I act with goodness, I will receive goodness. 
If I act with evil, I will get evil." (NOTE: This is karma. Karma is like the law of gravity--it is a law that cannot be changed. No "god" judges your actions, they are either good or they are not.)

"What our grandparents told us is the pure truth. You will always have what you desire for others. Being happy is not a matter of destiny. It is a matter of options."

Finally he said:
"Take care of your Thoughts because they become Words.
Take care of your Words because they will become Actions.
Take care of your Actions because they will become Habits.
Take care of your Habits because they will form your Character.
Take care of your Character because it will form your Destiny,
and your Destiny will be your Life

"¦ and "¦

"There is no religion higher than the Truth."
--------------------------------------------------------------

That is some serious wisdom. I have an imense amount of respect for Buddhists.

I remember when I was still very new to my faith and starting to slip back into bad habits I read a quote by Ghandi that completely inspired me. "I like your Christ,
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ." And it really hit home. He was Hindu and at the time I was really bigoted about that religion in particular and it really made me effected a respect for other faiths after that. Thanks for sharing that with me.🙂[/QUOTE]

Royal Goat, you are a very special person. You have the ability to change many Christians thoughts about homosexuality. You probably already have. I'm sure many Christians who thought homosexuals were sexual deviants have a different position by getting to know you. If Christianity gets you closer to God, you have chosen the right religion.

And perhaps you have changed some homosexuals opinions about Christianity. If homosexuality truly is a sin, that should be between you and God. If Christianity makes you a better person, then you are on the right path.

Wow, thanks you're very kind, and even though I don't know you very well I think you're very special and effect good change in the world as well.

 

[frankie]

My simple opinion on homosexuality is that it's completely normal and has always existed. I don't think it's an evolution, or a variation of the the norm aka being heterosexual. There is no norm. There has always been straight, gay and bi people. There always will be. The good and negative of being human is that you question things. People will always look at themselves, see someone different and question why that person is different and rush to explain it and sadly often taint that difference with their own beliefs and prejudices. For me, people are born straight, gay and bi and that's just how it is. " Why are you gay? " - "Why are you straight?". Same question really. I don't know the answer and I don't want to. It's just the way it is and that's good enough for me.

 

[theroyalgoat]

The fact that there always will be those opinions doesn't make it right or justify it. Right, it's never going to be completly gone, but it still hurts! Maybe it doesn't hurt you in particular, but some get hurt, even physically. It gets to the level of hate, and nothing can justify it. Hurting people is wrong, period. Someone who doesn't care that they're hurting people, doesn't deserve the same respect.

Last time someone named Hitler voiced his "okay to express" opinion 6 million Jews were murdered. There is a difference between expressing what you feel, and hurting people by it.

Lol, yeah now we're just going in circles. We both know it's not right, but it's there and it's always going to be there. The people who still are being hurt can either keep being victims or rise about it. Fighting the ignorance and hate itself is absolutely pointless. Just a giant waste of time. It's a battle that can't be won and it really is something that'll make someone crazy if they do fight every injustice. More power to you if that's the choice you make. I wasn't bragging when I said I wasn't hurt, I was merely stating that it's completely do-able to get to the point where it doesn't effect you and that's the fight that's worthwhile.
And as far as them not derserving respect, I don't know. I find that in most cases that if you are uneffected and respectful it really deflates the situation. I don't see how fighting fire with fire is going to do anything besides burn you both.

The Hitler thing I don't even know how to respond to that, I mean wtf?!

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Lol, yeah now we're just going in circles. We both know it's not right, but it's there and it's always going to be there. The people who still are being hurt can either keep being victims or rise about it. Fighting the ignorance and hate itself is absolutely pointless. Just a giant waste of time. It's a battle that can't be won and it really is something that'll make someone crazy if they do fight every injustice. More power to you if that's the choice you make. I wasn't bragging when I said I wasn't hurt, I was merely stating that it's completely do-able to get to the point where it doesn't effect you and that's the fight that's worthwhile.
And as far as them not derserving respect, I don't know. I find that in most cases that if you are uneffected and respectful it really deflates the situation. I don't see how fighting fire with fire is going to do anything besides burn you both.

The Hitler thing I don't even know how to respond to that, I mean wtf?!

At the end of the day, people who want and can respect shouldn't disrespect, shouldn't hurt when they KNOW it hurts. If someone hurts and knows it hurts, that makes them a person who doesn't even deserve the respect.
Not everyone like you can rise above it and say, "yes, it happens and it's okay". Because not everybody sees it that way. People who are hated don't like being hated, and they're hurt.

I really wish for the day to come where everybody will respect each other, no matter if they're gay or not. And not fighting it might even make it worse. There are countries in the world where they kill those who are gay. Are you saying we shouldn't fight it? Because it's happening and it shouldn't. Even if it doesn't include death, it hurts, it's being hated. People should take a stand, or the haters will win.

I'm being extreme here, but I'm making a point. I don't think there's anything more I can say. Just that don't say things if they hurt. That's my whole phylosophy. Leave those poeple alone and mind your own business (not you, in general).

 

[Goby]

I'd like to share one Buddhist perspective. Perhaps this is the way many Christians think and a way for us to agree. 🙂

First, The Dali Llama has said that homosexually is "wrong." "Wrong" meaning a hindrance to obtaining Enlightenment. Of course he's much smarter than me, so I'll assume he's right. BTW, "Wrong" is not all-damning and does not mean the same thing as a sin does in Christianity. It just means that you are not focused on obtaining enlightenment at that moment. This comes from ancient Tibetian texts, and the Dali Llama has asked that a council be convened to change it.

So what the Dali Llama said is:

If a person was to engage in homosexuality, "a person would not be considered as following all the precepts (Note: Precepts are our Commandments) of Buddhist principles. People don't follow all the principles. Very few people can claim they follow all the principles. For instance, telling a lie. In any religion, if you ask if telling a lie is a sin"”say Christian"”they will say yes. But you find very few people who don't at some point tell a lie. Homosexuality is one act, but you can't say [a person who is homosexual is] not a Buddhist. Or someone who tells a lie is not a Buddhist. Or someone who kills an insect is not a Buddhist, because there's a strong injunction against that."

So the bad news: Homosexuality is wrong
The Good news: It is the same a killing a bug. 🙂

 

[Elfangor]

I have a younger brother who is gay and it was not a big deal when he came out. It is just his way of life and he chooses to live it the way he sees fit. I see no reason to deny any human the right to happiness and it boils my blood a bit when folks get all up in arms over homosexuality and how wrong it is. They are people like everyone else and deserve to right to live their lives to the fullest.

 

[Taake]

It was tongue in cheek...partly. It's not okay to say hurtful things to NEITHER side. However, it's hard for gay people to just sit back when they're discriminated against, can't marry, etc..

Sit back? No one's sitting back anymore, we're fighting against discrimmination but it doesn't give us the high ground to look down on or hurt others.

I really wish for the day to come where everybody will respect each other, no matter if they're gay or not. And not fighting it might even make it worse. There are countries in the world where they kill those who are gay. Are you saying we shouldn't fight it? Because it's happening and it shouldn't. Even if it doesn't include death, it hurts, it's being hated. People should take a stand, or the haters will win.

I'm being extreme here, but I'm making a point. I don't think there's anything more I can say. Just that don't say things if they hurt. That's my whole phylosophy. Leave those poeple alone and mind your own business (not you, in general).

Then why not start today, with yourself, to start trying to respect everybody. That's all you can control. Instead of wishing for there to be a day when this will happen. It's on all of our shoulders, our individual choice.

And no one's talking about not fighting against it. Of course one should fight against discrimmination but that doesn't mean that we can pick up the stones and start throwing either.

And for your philosophy "just don't say things if they hurt" ... again, you're hurting someone by not being able to accept their opinion here. Instead of lashing out why not agree to disagree, rise above the anger and try to understand that someone might be the opposite but just as deserving of respect for and that it's no reason to hate. That makes you the very thing you hate... intolerant.


From my own personal life I can tell you that I was shocked when my aunt, my hero in many ways, expressed thoroughly negative viewpoints on gay marriage - and at first I was appalled to think that she might be of that persuasion.
But then I looked at it from her point of view and though I certainly don't agree I can respect her oppinion. And I firmly believe that I am in the right and that maybe one day she will come around and realize that too... but hating her or the ways she believes in isn't going to make that happen. That's just spreading more poison. And I don't want that.

 

[Flannen]

^Taake, I can't rep you again because you've been making too many awesome posts. I could quite easily freakin' propose to you for this post! 😀

I completely agree with everything you said. The world will never be a better place if we think the only battle is against organisations, groups of people and governments or whatever. Every one of us is an individual in the fight for equal rights and it just as important for US as individuals to treat people equally no matter what they believe, (As I said before, acting upon that belief, I view a little differently) as it is for "the world" as a whole to do it. Stand up be counted for everyone.

 

[mayfever]

I'm aware it's somewhat of an unpopular opinion at the moment, but I have to say I'm with ChosenEnemy on this. I fail to see why homophobia (I'm using the term loosely here) is different from racism - a group of people is discriminated against due to something they can't do anything about - and I'm sure we all agree that racism is wrong, and we would not be quite so understanding if someone hypothetically said "My religion tells me being black is wrong, so while I do have black friends and don't tell them every day that their skin colour is wrong, I still think it is in principle."

There is such a thing as a wrong opinion, and sugarcoating it doesn't make it any less hurtful.

@EntertainUs you say you have gay friends - do they know about your opinion on their sexuality?

 

[Hero]

So.... my dad has always said he's supportive and accepts it and whatever.

I came home with a hickey on my neck last night and suddenly he's disgusting that his son is gay. Ok, where have you been the last 6 years?

 

[Harley]

@EntertainUs you say you have gay friends - do they know about your opinion on their sexuality?

Yes. It basically comes down to agreeing that we disagree. We dont spend our days talking about it either. We are bigger than that and love each other like we are.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[msfantastico87]

Ok, I have been trying to stay out of this thread for as long as I possibly could, but I can't do it anymore. If I had time, I would respond to a lot of your replies, but I don't. So here's my reply in short:

I think I have always been gay. Up until I came out, I always dated men in hopes that I would be able to prove myself wrong. I was born in a Hispanic family. Hispanics families that are born in their own countries have very strict beliefs when it comes to homosexuality. They are very old school. The majority of them are catholic and what not and practice their religion strictly. My father is one of them. Anyways. After dating so many guys and feeling like crap, I finally decided to come out. I first came out to my sister. She is religious but we were always so close that she understood accepted my need for happiness, even though she did not agree with orientation. She simply said that if this whole thing in the bible is indeed real, she was afraid of where i would end up. Perfectly understandable. Then I later came out to my mom, and she was accepting as well. Then my youngest sister. That was one of the hardest moments of my life. I'm like a mom to her and my being openly gay, she thought she had to follow in my footsteps, so she started dating a girl and she was totally confused. But because I was gay, she thought it was ok. I had to sit down with her and explain to her that she indeed, was not gay, and had to explain everything about myself to her. She still loves me. The hardest though, was my dad. He kicked me out of the house and I haven't spoken to him in almost 6 years, and that's the short story. Although it saddens me and I admit it upsets me that he doesn't accept the way I am, I understand that he was raised to have certain beliefs, so I blame his time and his people for not having the knowledge we have today. I just hope he is able to at least speak to me sometime soon.

Now on to EntertainUs's post. I can understand why so many people agree with her post. It's understandable. But I think I would have to agree with her. Just because she has these certain views and opinions does not mean she hates the gays. I applaud her for posting and defending her views, as since this is a place that is pro-homosexuality (for the most part anyways) anyone else would have just hidden under a rock and not voiced out their opinion, which is much like gays 10 years ago. We are very much alike, we just don't all agree on all the same points.

@EntertainUs you say you have gay friends - do they know about your opinion on their sexuality?

I am her friend. We have both been very nice to each other regardless of our views and opinions. I don't hate straight people. She doesn't hate gay people. That's all we need eh? If I was to back away from her simply because she doesn't agree with the rights, It'd be like be backtracking to the way everyone was 20 years ago. Besides, she's my Facebook lover 😉 (sw)

Also one more thing...

Taake and Flannen

You guys made me feel so good with your posts. You ladies are great allies and it is much appreciated. I love you girls 🙂

 

[Goby]

So.... my dad has always said he's supportive and accepts it and whatever.

I came home with a hickey on my neck last night and suddenly he's disgusting that his son is gay. Ok, where have you been the last 6 years?

OMG! You're gay? We've PM'ed!! You've been to my personal website and seen my picture! You're not trying to convert me, are you? 😀

I like the new theme on your website. I think the "gore" factor would be important. I'm not a fan of horror, but I like fun horror films (Scream, Evil Dead II or Army of Darkness, for example). But I'm not interested in the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Saw or Horror. Oh, and set up categories now before you have lots of reviews.

BTW, just because I like your website doesn't mean I'm gay.

Another BTW.... and a serious one. As a parent I might be disgusted if my son or daughter, straight or gay, came home with a hickey. It might not be a "gay" thing (unless, of course, your dad said it), but it really makes parents feel weird knowing their child is having "relations."

 

[prophecygrrl]

I think there's a great difference between the right to express an opinion and the right to express an opinion without criticism. The first is protected and I think we all agree that that right should remain intact, but the latter is a privilege. It's not guaranteed, nor is anyone entitled to it, gay, straight or otherwise.

Sensitivity may be necessary from both sides to have an effective dialogue, but as it stands *most* of the world's systems and governments function on heterosexism. Among a myriad of other discriminatory practices, yes, but heterosexism is a big one. Homophobia, anti-gay, whatever you prefer to call it- queer folks are hurting. This is how things are. The opinion or belief that gay people are wrong, or that homosexuality is not a choice, etc. holds weight in this world, and it's used to hurt and marginalize people. Whether or not you personally hurt people is really a moot point, because the fact remains that these opinions do not exist in a vacuum. They have real consequences for people. So yes, you can believe what you want, but do accept that that opinion hurts others. Do realize that criticism of it is not necessarily unwarranted.