Your top 6 favorite ships!

[zobothehobo]

5) Giles/Dawn

Please explain that one to me. I hear that and it sounds absolutely.. just wrong. In every sense of the word wrong. What is your reason for liking it?

 

[Mindfiend]

Please explain that one to me. I hear that and it sounds absolutely.. just wrong. In every sense of the word wrong. What is your reason for liking it?

Each to their own, Zobo. If it is wrong for you, then I can understand that. You are certainly in the majority with that view and it's one I've come across a dozen times before. Everybody will find an ick factor in some pairings, and this one does spawn more than most. The most common reasons for that with these two is the taboo age factor or the father figure. Often both.

There's a long list of reasons why I can enjoy it, but if I knew exactly what gives rise to your distate about it then I could address that pertinent point rather than give a rambling discourse on the whole topic of Giles/Dawn. Can you be more specific?

 

[zobothehobo]

Each to their own, Zobo. If it is wrong for you, then I can understand that. You are certainly in the majority with that view and it's one I've come across a dozen times before. Everybody will find an ick factor in some pairings, and this one does spawn more than most. The most common reasons for that with these two is the taboo age factor or the father figure. Often both.

There's a long list of reasons why I can enjoy it, but if I knew exactly what gives rise to your distate about it then I could address that pertinent point rather than give a rambling discourse on the whole topic of Giles/Dawn. Can you be more specific?

Well the father figure thing is the big thing for me. The age difference is kind of... gross, but I can move past it. But to me, it's really like she'd be in a relationship with her dad.

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Justme agrees: The age thing is a little weird, given Dawns personality I find it hard to imagine how it wouldn't be in some way exploitive.

Agreed.
*posttooshort*

 

[msfantastico87]

I need to update my list since I am almost done with Angel.

1.Willow/Tara
2.Cordy/Angel
3.Spike/Buffy
4.Ripper/Joyce
5.Fred/Gunn
6.Xander/Dawn

Honorable mentions:
Fred/ Willow 😀
Willow/ Oz
Xander/ Anya
Buffy/ Faith

 

[Mindfiend]

Well the father figure thing is the big thing for me. The age difference is kind of... gross, but I can move past it. But to me, it's really like she'd be in a relationship with her dad.

Perfectly valid points, Zobo. As I said, have come across those objections to it before, and other ones.

The most important ability in being able to enjoy various ships is having an open, often broad, mind and an ability to shift viewpoint. If people weren't able to alter their perception of a relationship then you'd never get people liking supposedly opposite couples like Bangel and Spuffy. There are those who will never enjoy the opposite pairing, and there are those who can take elements out of each and get the best of both. (Both certainly have their pros and cons with regard to how they work for Buffy)

Let me try to respond to each of your personal objections:

The age issue
Many fans use a form of selective viewpoint to enable them to enjoy the more contentious or taboo pairings. After only reading a few Dawn fanfics you'll find the most common way to get past her age issue is to skip forward in time to when she's college age. The majority of fic will employ that device to skirt social taboo. As for whether or not that is a cop out to avoid the real issue is debated hotly. In my opinion, it is, albeit a necessary one to avoid controversy and persecution.

If it is not her age that bothers you quite so much as the age gap itself, well, that's a common issue. Themes that can be explored in any young/mature pairing are often along the lines of first love and/or sexual awakening and the crossing of the threshold from childhood to adulthood with the aid of a gentle and caring partner. However that doesn't mean all fantasy is from that angle and yes, there are indeed darker and more troublesome variants.

The father figure
To be quite frank, I don't really see Giles as a father figure for Dawn. He definitely is for Buffy, and that's a whole other topic regarding the Giles/Buffy pairing in itself, but for Dawnie I really don't see it. He rarely takes any role with her, in fact, and outright avoids it when Buffy tries to back him into playing the role of disciplinarian so that she doesn't have to. The nearest he really gets is when Buffy seeks parental advice from him, like in season 5's "Crush" where he offers guidance and wisdom there, but doesn't take the role for himself. When Buffy dies at the end of S5, Giles still doesn't step into the breach, this time basically leaving it to Willow and Tara before returning to England.

Sure, there can be a case made for Giles as Dawn's father figure, but it does involve focusing more on subtext and expectation rather than canon actuality. (But then *smiles* we fans have never let that stop us from passionately following any ship, now, have we?)

As for the sexual element, well, incestuous pairings tend to polarise people and it is something you can either enjoy or not with no middle ground, but that is a topic best discussed privately because this is not an adult only forum.

 

[CrayonBreakyMe]

Spuffy
Tillow
Woz
Cangel
Xanya
Fresley

Those are my top 6. At first I thought that I wouldn't be able to figure six, and I would just stick with Spuffy...But yay! =]]]

 

[Summerlilly]

Hmmm.....well, as I think I've said before there's only three ships that I would dare to vehemently speak of:

1. Buffy/Angel
2. Buffy/Spike
3. Cordelia/Angel

but if I had to choose three more...

1. Buffy/Riley
2. Willow/Tara
3. Anya/Xander

 

[Spikefan31]

Can't remember if I've posed here, so:

Spuffy
Xanya
Weslah
Fresley
Cander
Cangel

not necessarily in that order, except the first 2.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Actually, I have no real problem with Bangel, so it can replace...um...Cander or Cangel...tough choice...hmmm...I don't know whether to include Bangel or not...It can be my number 7 ship. 😀

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

And as much as I dislike Jenny, I like Giles/Jenny.

 

[BananaBuffy]

Oh, when I posted I missed out Fuffy. Even if it was just a short term thing. Buffy-wise though I'll always love Spuffy more than anything. But just on the side. It can be my number 7.

 

[caitaintdead]

Okay, sorry to get back on the Dawn/Giles thing, my questions aren't so much about the age difference. I've had flings and almost relationships with older guys so it doesn't squick me at all. Sorry to be crude, but yes a gentle, older and experienced guy is great for young women.

I just don't get the dawn and Giles thing though. I've never seen it hinted throughout the show, they have nothing in common, and zero sexual tension. I'm open to being proven wrong so just explain it to me!

 

[sosa lola]

How do people know which ships are popular and not?

For me it depends on the amount of fics written for that pairing. Judging by fics, I think Buffy/Spike, Xander/Spike, Angel/Buffy, Angel/Spike are the most popular pairings -according to what I see everyday. On Giles' pairings, Ethan/Giles is so talked about and liked by many fans, but I rarely see fics about them, unlike Xander/Giles especially last year, Xander/Giles fics got recced most of the time in LJ.

I can rec you fics if you want... but PM, because most of them are NC 17.

Regarding Giles/Dawn, I have to agree that Giles wasn't a father figure to Dawn or any of the Scoobies aside from Buffy and occasionally Willow. He just didn't have a father/child relationship with Dawn or Xander or Anya or Tara or Oz or Cordelia, and just because he's older it didn't mean he did.

 

[Justme]

How would you describe his relationship with Dawn then? Off the top of my head the only interaction I can think of them having is Giles chastising Dawn, Father/Teacher/Rakish Uncle... they are all figures of authority.

Sosa, thanks for answering, I have never really read much fic, the stuff I have read has been pretty dire. Could you PM me some sites or something?

 

[BuffangelLovE]

1. Bangel
2. Xanya
3. Sprusilla
4. Dangel
5. Tillow
6. Cander

 

[Mindfiend]

Okay, sorry ... I just don't get the dawn and Giles thing though. I've never seen it hinted throughout the show, they have nothing in common, and zero sexual tension. I'm open to being proven wrong so just explain it to me!

Okay, I'll try.

"No hints of them on the show." Agreed. Diles is certainly pushing shipping to its absolute limits and is about as out-of-left-field as it gets. Needs lots of willingness to see it, and then it is all about choosing to see a certain line as subtext, or more often a glance, etc.

"Nothing in common". *smiles* Well, that's not always necessary. It may be cliché but opposites do attract. It can usually be tempestuous and temporary, but the odd time it will be true and permanent. On paper my partner and I are so opposite we shouldn't be able to stay in the same room together, let alone love each other for all the years we have done. And anyway, I can see that Dawn and Giles do have elements in common, it's just that hers are still maturing and coming to the fore. He can see them where others, except Xander, can't.

How I see Diles. For me, what ship I am indulging in at that moment is dependent upon my mood and what I am looking for. If I want raw, all consuming passion then I may choose Spuffy. If I want tender, deep and abiding love I may choose Bangel or Tillow. If I want a darker kind of attraction with some kinky sex thrown it, then I'd probably look at Weslah, for example. There is a ship for every type of mood, every type of love, every type of desire, and often several ships for each.

There is something appealingly compelling about "angst-ridden" tragic loves but then again sometimes I find myself at a stage where I want the (probably unrealistic) happily-ever-afters. There is definitely a part of me that wants to read about powerful love. A love so powerful it cannot be ignored. So powerful it can overcome any obstacle in its path.

When I tend to imagine the Dawn/Giles pairing then this "love so powerful it overcomes" is the aspect I focus on. I tend to imagine the ship going something like this:

Dawn is head over heels in the exhilaration of her first true love, Giles. And why not? Think about it; Giles is awesome. He may be older but he's incredibly handsome, is the most intelligent person she's ever met, is brave beyond measure, through his Watcher training can handle himself in a fight and with any weapon, is quiet and thoughtful, yet also has a rebellious "rock star" edge and past. He's kind, considerate and can be very firm and authoritative.

When Dawn reveals her feelings to him he's shocked, tries to put her off. But that's because he's more affected by social mores and morality than she is. He knows most people will see a relationship between them as wrong, due to the age gap. He's also scared of his own feelings, because he can see the Dawn underneath the childish facade.

You see, Dawn is often misjudged by fans. They see her as whiny and a brat. Sure, she is, but with lots of reasons. Is Season 5 she's the baby of the family, getting all the love and attention and still quite the child. The reason for this is to provide a perspective for Buffy's unrelenting love and protection of her. By S6 you have to see that Dawn has been, and is going, through Hell. In a few short months she's learned she's not a real girl and all her memories are a lie, had to endure her mother's awful illness then sudden death, and finally been responsible for her sister basically committing suicide to save her. She's got good reason to be screwed up and act out. In S7 she really grows up and you begin to get glimpses into an awesome young woman, full of compassion and actual wisdom. Xander, the heart, notices it when nobody else does, hence his beautiful speech to her. Sure, she's not there yet, she's still at that terribly awkward border between child and adult, so she does slip back into some very bad and childish behaviour, but there is a definite sneak peek at who she will become in only a year or two more.

Yet Giles would try to do "the right thing". He'd try to deny what he felt. Try to put her off, thinking her love merely infatuation. He'd be scared about what would happen if they did become involved and then Buffy and co found out. How would they react? Dawn is sure of what she wants and pursues him until gradually his barriers are overcome and he can't help himself. Their relationship is intense, but at first he insists they keep it a secret. Cue lots of cute teasing from Dawn with suggestive comments or looks at inappropriate moments, just to watch him squirm in that wonderful flustered manner Giles has.

Eventually the secret has to come out, and there lies plenty of scope for confrontation, accusation, conflict and angst. Yet still, their love is so strong that they'll go through whatever it takes to be together.

 

[Chase]

NO. 1 is obviously Cangel!!!! duh (otp anyone??)

2. Spuffy

3. Fresley & Weslah - They're tied and I'm not choosing.

4. Xander & Anya

5. Willara & Willoz - still not choosing again.

6. Cander & Dordy - Leave me alone, I love lots of couples the same.

 

[caritas08]

1. Willow/Oz
2. Willow/Tara
3. Buffy/Spike
4. Buffy/Angel
5. Wesley/Fred
6. Cordelia/Doyle

honorable mention goes to Jenny/Giles and Lorne/humankind

 

[Appelsapientje]

1. Spuffy
2. Spangel
3. Tillow
4. Xanya
5. Cangel
6. Woz

 

[wickedtiger86]

Hmm after number one this was actually kinda hard for me to put an order to them.

Spike/Buffy
Xander/Anya
Willow/Oz
Cordy/Doyle
Spike/Angel
Buffy/Angel

That's right. I can totally ship Spuffy and Bangel. I just really really prefer Spuffy.

Tara and Willow comes right after that, but each re-watch I get more and more disturbed by Willow's mind manipulation of Tara. . .

 

[FaithsFollower]

Ooh! Fun!

1) Spike/Drusilla <-- Any other character paired with either of them is an instant FAIL.
2) Buffy/Faith <-- Same as above
3) Anya/Xander
4) Jonathan/Andrew
5) Fred/Wesley
6) Angelus/Darla

 

[mysticspirit]

1) Willow/Oz
2) Buffy/Angel
3) Buffy/Spike <--If i could I would rank this the same as Bangel
4) Xander/Anya
5) Faith/Angel <--Am I alone here?

I haven't seen all of Angel but from what I have seen, I ship Fred/Wesley