A Lover or a Killer?

[BuffyThoughts]

Do you guys think of Spike mostly as

1) A vicious serial killer and a terrible danger to society, or
2) A sentimentalist and frustrated poet, whose whole life plan is to find the right female companion?

My question is prompted by my recent rewatch of The Initiative,, where Spike attacks Willow in her dorm room. Do you guys think that scene is

1) Funny
2) Terrifying
3) somehow both ?

 

[zobothehobo]

To answer the first question, 2. Spike is a sentimentalizt and a frustrated poet whose whole plan is to find the right female companion. I think that sums him up quite beautifully.

To answer your second question, 1 and 4. 4 is my option I put in which is cute. Any time Spike tries to be evil in season 4, it's adorable. Just so cute! Oh Spikey!!!!! *fangirl* Yeah...

 

[InsaneMystic]

Do you guys think of Spike mostly as

1) A vicious serial killer and a terrible danger to society, or
2) A sentimentalist and frustrated poet, whose whole life plan is to find the right female companion?

Mostly 2)... I see that as the core of his character, who he is as a person, while 1) is more of a "collateral" effect, what he is as a member of his species.

My question is prompted by my recent rewatch of The Initiative,, where Spike attacks Willow in her dorm room. Do you guys think that scene is

1) Funny
2) Terrifying
3) somehow both ?

3)... with the terrifying aspect mostly in the bad aftertaste the misplaced humor leaves. It's the kind of thing that gets you laughing, but then you feel bad about having laughed as it's "Dude... not funny" the moment you think about it. (Kinda like pretty much the whole of "Gone" - comedy that fails once you start thinking about it.)

 

[Gum Gnome33]

Well, he's the first half of # 2 until he becomes a vampire, at which point he is definitely #1 and quite a lot of #2. After he is chipped, he is quite literally not #1, though his #1 instincts are still there as he is still a vampire. Over time, the instincts begin to fade and are replaced with the most #2 tendencies he's ever had, inspired by a particular blonde lady. This is the simplest way I've ever attempted to define Spike, and for sure it doesn't do him justice.

The scene in The Initiative is fantastic. Which by Buffy standards probably means it's both funny and terrifying.

PS- I wasn't talking about, you know, stuff you do in the bathroom with all those "#1 and #2" references. Just to make that clear.

PPS- Does anybody smell round #79 of The Epic Spike Battle coming on? Look alive, friends! 😉

 

[KellGreen]

- Does anybody smell round #79 of The Epic Spike Battle coming on? Look alive, friends! 😉

I just take it as Spike's character is so passionate that it seeps out to all who see him😛 I've seen few posters who are just "meh" about him: it's mostly love him like crazy or hate him with a passion.

I can't add anything beyond what's already been said.

 

[spikecakes]

Do you guys think of Spike mostly as

1) A vicious serial killer and a terrible danger to society, or
2) A sentimentalist and frustrated poet, whose whole life plan is to find the right female companion?

I like to think that he's a combination of the two. He's a frustrated poet with a knack for killing, while being an incredible punk sentimentalist. One would assume a combination of such things is impossible, however Spike has proved us wrong. In fact, he is a romantic murderer, to be frank.

My question is prompted by my recent rewatch of The Initiative,, where Spike attacks Willow in her dorm room. Do you guys think that scene is

1) Funny
2) Terrifying
3) somehow both ?

Mostly funny. To see Spike in that situation is always going to be slightly humourous. He's a bit cute, isn't he?

 

[sisterofmercy]

Both. He's a lover AND a fighter. Or rather he's always been a lover but due to constant rejection and isolation become a killer/evil/vampire. Then once he was given attention again and once someone saw through the hard exterior, he was able to be more poetic and sweet. Of course Dru exploited that and you could argue that Buffy did too in S5/6. I think primarily he's a passionate person, which shows through when he's the 'big bad.'

As to the Willow scene, I found it funny, particularly considering the metaphor related to it.

 

[Mr Giles]

I think hes a despicable rogue. utter folly.

 

[kittenpoker]

Well, he's the first half of # 2 until he becomes a vampire, at which point he is definitely #1 and quite a lot of #2. After he is chipped, he is quite literally not #1, though his #1 instincts are still there as he is still a vampire. Over time, the instincts begin to fade and are replaced with the most #2 tendencies he's ever had, inspired by a particular blonde lady. This is the simplest way I've ever attempted to define Spike, and for sure it doesn't do him justice.

I love this answer. And, no, of course it doesn't completely define him....I'm not sure it's possible to completely define anyone if you used a thousand words, let alone a small paragraph... but this definitely captures his essence.

 

[white avenger]

Do you guys think of Spike mostly as

1) A vicious serial killer and a terrible danger to society, or
2) A sentimentalist and frustrated poet, whose whole life plan is to find the right female companion?


My question is prompted by my recent rewatch of The Initiative,, where Spike attacks Willow in her dorm room. Do you guys think that scene is

1) Funny
2) Terrifying
3) somehow both ?

Spike's character has never worked that way for me. He's not the kind of character who you can just put a label on and walk away, because when you come back, he's something totally different. The dangerous predator one moment, the solicitous protector and defender of his loved ones the next. Spike, as he developed over the course of his 5 years on Buffy, was almost the classic example of the Japanese concept of Samurai, the cultured warrior, just as skillful with a pen, writing poetry as he is with a sword in combat. Just as caring and loyal a friend as he is a deadly warrior. He's a character with more facets than a diamond. (I didn't come up with that bit about the facets, Joss did, but I thought that it bore repeating)

As for the scene with Willow and Spike in the dorm room, it started out as terrifying, and ended up absolutely comical. Willow feeling inadequate because even the monster vampire wasn't interested in her, then him assuring her that he found her totally "bite-able." Then she assures him that, yes, she did find him frightening.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree with zobothehobo and Insane Mystic; Spike is an insanely complex character with many layers. He is both a lover and a fighter, and has fulfilled different roles at different times in the series. In season 4, he's the antihero, and is clearly not supposed to be interpeted as actually dangerous, and the audience is intended to sympathize with him as he is basically harmless.

At his core, Spike is a romantic, a poet, and a lover. After he was turned, he invented the punk rock image in an attempt to destroy everything he disliked about himself, mainly his sentimental, effete mediocre poet (even Williams last name, "Pratt", suggests "prat" - British slang for idiot).The bad boy thing is just a smokescreen. In other words, Spike is a poser. Now, don't get me wrong, Spike is dangerous, and clearly competent, but I think we'll all admit that the whole bad boy thing was always posturing.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

Spike's character has never worked that way for me. He's not the kind of character who you can just put a label on and walk away, because when you come back, he's something totally different. The dangerous predator one moment, the solicitous protector and defender of his loved ones the next. Spike, as he developed over the course of his 5 years on Buffy, was almost the classic example of the Japanese concept of Samurai, the cultured warrior, just as skillful with a pen, writing poetry as he is with a sword in combat. Just as caring and loyal a friend as he is a deadly warrior. He's a character with more facets than a diamond. (I didn't come up with that bit about the facets, Joss did, but I thought that it bore repeating)

Exactly. Well said. And worth noting is Joss' comment that out of all of his characters, Spike was the most developed.

As for the scene with Willow and Spike in the dorm room, it started out as terrifying, and ended up absolutely comical. Willow feeling inadequate because even the monster vampire wasn't interested in her, then him assuring her that he found her totally "bite-able." Then she assures him that, yes, she did find him frightening.

Yeees. That's my whole point. We're not supposed to believe that Willow is in any real danger in this scene, and the whole sexual impotence/biting analogy makes that obvious.

 

[Marisa]

I think Spike was both and everything at the same time.
As for the second question I found it funny. I didn't find it scary at all if it was supposed to be I didn't get it.

 

[Summerlilly]

Spike is all those things.....that's why I ::heart:: him. :: inlove

 

[Litheran]

Spike is the perfect balance between good and evil. William was a pure spirit; the most innocent character I've seen in all of Buffy. After his siring he became one of the most ruthless creatures on the planet. But even then he preferred a decent tussle to flat out mayhem and bloodshed. After the chip and falling for Buffy he was able to reclaim some of that spirit. Now he is the combination of sinner and saint; caveman and astronaut.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Spike is the perfect balance between good and evil. William was a pure spirit; the most innocent character I've seen in all of Buffy. After his siring he became one of the most ruthless creatures on the planet. But even then he preferred a decent tussle to flat out mayhem and bloodshed. After the chip and falling for Buffy he was able to reclaim some of that spirit. Now he is the combination of sinner and saint; caveman and astronaut.

Great post!
Yes, the most amazing thing about Spike is the scope of his personality. Practically everybody finds something in him. Some love evil Spike, some love shy poet William, some love funny snarky Spike of season 4, some (me including) prefer Spike in love with Buffy. Somebody called Spike the little black dress of Jossverse, meaning that he can be shipped with any character with great results.

Spike's scene with Willow is incredibly funny, if a bit perversibly funny. AFAIK, it inspired a lot of Spillow fanfic back in 1999.

 

[BuffyThoughts]

I agree that Spike is both "lover and killer." What I wanted to know which aspect you think of first, which is foremost in your mind. In my case, it's definitely the poet and sentimentalist. When the killer comes forward, I always have a slight WTF moment ... oh yes, that's right, he is like that isn't he?

 

[LoveLoveLovix]

On the first question, I don't really think of him as either. I tend to think of Spike as an adorable, sarcastic, frustrated guy who needs to leap from the Buffyverse into real life and promptly become my best friend.

And as for the second... I'm sorry, I see no terror in that scene, only humor. Maybe it's because even before starting Buffy I had so many friends who gave away spoilers (their theory seems to be, if you don't watch it yet we can say anything we want, but when you start watching it, we can't say a word) that I knew that scene wasn't going to be horrible and bloody and deathy.

Oh, and I must say, I agree with [MENTION=10363]zobothehobo[/MENTION] about Spike and his Season 4 cuteness, but add that it isn't just limited to his being evil... Something Blue just made me wanna grab him and smother him in huggles. Except Buffy may have killed me.

 

[Hale Caesar]

The thing is, there are so many different versions of Spike, and they all have different labels in my opinion.

William was just a guy who wanted to write poetry, S2 Spike was a Big Bad with a heart, S4 Spike was funny, S5 Spike was confused, S6 Spike was disgusting (I mostly remember the rape), S7 Spike was a hero and AtS season 5 Spike was trying to define himself

 

[Willow My Love]

Can I choose neither and substitute my own interpretation? I see Spike as someone who totally had the potential to be a big bad; the potential to be terrifying. But they went in the wrong direction with his character. Instead of keeping him evil, they turned him into a mushy puppy dog. Honestly, hooray for character development and all, but I think they ruined his character by the end of Buffy. And then, in Angel, Spike becomes the same conceited jerk he was in s5. All the development in s7 never really did anything good for him. He came back to life and completely reverted to who he was, only he doesn't kill people anymore. I don't much like Spike.

*let the thrashing begin*

 

[zobothehobo]

Can I choose neither and substitute my own interpretation? I see Spike as someone who totally had the potential to be a big bad; the potential to be terrifying. But they went in the wrong direction with his character. Instead of keeping him evil, they turned him into a mushy puppy dog. Honestly, hooray for character development and all, but I think they ruined his character by the end of Buffy. And then, in Angel, Spike becomes the same conceited jerk he was in s5. All the development in s7 never really did anything good for him. He came back to life and completely reverted to who he was, only he doesn't kill people anymore. I don't much like Spike.

*let the thrashing begin*

This is not just a note to you... but a note in general. I've done this before too... but I really don't think it's fair to say they "ruined" the character because you don't like the direction they took him in. I'm personally really glad they took Spike this way and the fact that you say they "ruined" the character kind of offends me. You don't like it fine... but they didn't "ruin" anything. I don't like where Wesley's character ended, but I wouldn't say they "ruined" him. They had the right to take the characters in whatever way they choose. I would be pissed if someone looked at something I'd written and said I "ruined" one of my own characters.

Anyway, rant over...

I think in season 7, Spike was really trying to learn to live with himself after he got his soul back. I honestly feel in season 5 of Ats, Spike was doing more of the same. It took Angel 100 + years to figure it out. You can't expect Spike to do it in one.