Angel The Alpha Male Yes Or No

[RomanticSoul]

Spike is actually particularly ballsy for a vampire, going up against slayers and all.

I'd say suicidally stupid rather than ballsy. Considering he didn't win either fight because he was better but because of happy accidents.

I think his hitting Angelus from behind wasn't an 'I can't take him in a fight' more a 'I want to wail on you for taunting me for the last couple of months' it was more anger than fear.
Also tactically it made sense; surprise against greater numbers so you take out the leader.

Fact remains that he didn't have the balls for a 1 on 1 confrontation until he had slayer backup. He's been able to walk before Becoming so why not take out his rival then? Because Angelus would thoroughly beat him to a pulp.

 

[thetopher]

I'd say suicidally stupid rather than ballsy. Considering he didn't win either fight because he was better but because of happy accidents.

My point is Spike isn't a coward or naturally back-stabby.
And although I agree that killing Xin Rong had to do with a nice bit of luck on Spike's part I honestly think he out-fought Nikki on the night in question.
In fact he almost killed her that first time (in 'LMPTM') if it hadn't been for Robin. He was like her version of Joyce- almost. But in the subway? Spike wanted the kill more I guess.

Fact remains that he didn't have the balls for a 1 on 1 confrontation until he had slayer backup. He's been able to walk before Becoming so why not take out his rival then? Because Angelus would thoroughly beat him to a pulp.

But that's just smarts surely? Angelus had taken his leadership position ergo he had henchmen and Spike did not.
I doubt Angelus would play fair in that situation so why should Spike.

I always thought of Spike going to Buffy the way he did as proof that Spike was a true opportunist, that's where his smarts lay. If he saw a possibility or weakness- and he was often perceptive enough to- he would exploit it.
So he goes to Buffy when Angelus grabs Giles as hostage and makes a deal.

My point is I'm not sure Spike's smacking Angelus around the way he did is proof that he thought Angelus was the 'bigger alpha male' or anything. There are other factors.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

But that's just smarts surely? Angelus had taken his leadership position ergo he had henchmen and Spike did not.
I doubt Angelus would play fair in that situation so why should Spike.

I always thought of Spike going to Buffy the way he did as proof that Spike was a true opportunist, that's where his smarts lay. If he saw a possibility or weakness- and he was often perceptive enough to- he would exploit it.
So he goes to Buffy when Angelus grabs Giles as hostage and makes a deal.

My point is I'm not sure Spike's smacking Angelus around the way he did is proof that he thought Angelus was the 'bigger alpha male' or anything. There are other factors.

Agreed. Also the fact that Angelus grabbed Giles actually gave Spike something to bargain with. Spike knew Buffy would be coming for Giles, he also knew she would likely kill everyone that got in her way including Drusilla. By striking a deal with Buffy, not only did Spike get the satisfaction of ruining Angelus' plans, but he also secured a 'get out of jail free' card for himself and Drusilla.

 

[RomanticSoul]

My point is Spike isn't a coward or naturally back-stabby.

OriginalRecipe!Spike is. Retconned!Spike not so much. Original!Spike uses and takes advantage of everything from henchmen to weakness spells to gems to assassins to big bads. You name it, he only goes into a fight if he has an overwhelming advantage. Retconned!Spike is all about the fair fight between equal opponents.

Spike wanted the kill more I guess.

Kill vs survival IMO. For Spike it was primarily about the former and for Nikki about the ladder. Who wants the kill more determines nothing IMO. If that were the case Spike would have been dust in WML.

I'd love to comment on the other stuff but this isn't the Spike forum, so I'll stop since it's off-topic.

 

[Taake]

I'd love to comment on the other stuff but this isn't the Spike forum, so I'll stop since it's off-topic.

You could start a thread about it 🙂