Bangel vs. Spuffy

[dan k]

I don't buy the whole Buffy was too young to know she loved Angel. If that was the case then why does she continue to love him after they split? Bangel's love was intense, Buffy's knew she loved Angel, age is irrelevant in this matter.

 

[Eleftheria]

She was young but sometimes people are lucky enough to meet love from a young age. As you said, even after their breaking up, they continued to have love for each other. Riley and Buffy failed for many reasons. Angel is mentioned cause it shows that Buffy would never have the communication she had with Angel with any other guy. In s4 he comes just to apologise to her. In s5 he is there to stand by her for her mother. They kiss and she almost asks him to stay with her. Angel was devastated by her death. Teenage filrts don't work that way. Only real, passionate, soul-mate kind of love works that way.

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

They met more times than two I think in s1. And I guess it is implied that Angel appears very little just to help her. Well, maybe that person who supported her, helped her, knew that she was a Slayer and seemed to care about her caused strong feelings.

 

[dan k]

In regard to Riley i think its telling that i can't remember her telling him that she loves him. He did it countless occasions. Although after watching the Yoko Factor today he says he is so crazy in love with her and then she says "tell me about it". So maybe she did love him.

However there wasn't that passion that she had for Angel. She didn't run to Riley when she had problems like she did with Angel. I get the feeling that Angel would have been more involved in regard to helping out Buffy with Joyce's illness. She left Riley out in the cold in terms of that, i couldn't see that happening with Angel. She would have lent on him for support a lot more then she did with Riley.

 

[Misty]

Yes she was young in the relationship and she might not know alot about love since she hasn't really become a mature adult yet, but she can still know how to love someone or think she loves someone because my grandmother got married at 17 or 18 to my grandpa and is still married to him and they're soulmates.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I didn't say you can't be in love at 16. I said you can't be in love with someone you don't know. But at 16 you're immature enough to THINK you love someone you don't know. You can love someone you DO know at 16, and you can think you love someone you don't know at 40 if you're emotionally immature (IMO). But nothing can convince me that it's possible to have love (as opposed to lust/interest/infatuation) with a virtual stranger. It's not romantic; it's silly.

 

[dan k]

So what are your views on Spuffy and Bangel then? Are you saying Buffy didn't love Angel at 16 or not?

 

[GrrArghx]

Age doesn't determine maturity.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well, as for the age thing, here's my take on it: You cannot truly love anybody else unless you love yourself. On extension, it's very unlikely that anybody (Besides, of course, your family) will love you if you don't love yourself. Kind of like how I believe that nobody will ever respect you if you don't respect yourself. Like, if you don't love and respect yourself, then why the heck would anybody else? So, really, most young people don't love and understand themselves enough to love anybody else, and are too selfish to completely care about anybody else (Although I'm not too happy with using the word "Selfish" in this case, but hopefully you guys get what I mean. 🙂 ).

So, who knows, maybe Buffy was at a point in her life where she loved and respected herself, and therefore had the ability to love and respect others as well. Some of the writers have said that in the beginning Buffy was the picture of "The complete selfishness of adolescence" but grew (By S7) into a more selfless and community-based person.

So I suppose that it all boils down to opinion. Personally, I found Buffy to be immature. So while she may have loved Angel, I don't believe that it was in any way a mature or developed love, the type of love that one would want in RL. 🙂

 

[Anya2012]

I'm not a Bangel or Spuffy shipper but I get Bangel.

What I don't get is Spuffy. Spike was evil to start with in the series. Then he gets a chip in his head but deep down he was still evil. He falls in love with Buffy but imo he was just lusting after her. Sure he went and got his soul back but I think it was for selfish reasons.

Has the Spuffy fans forgotten he tried to rape her because he didn't get what he wanted??

So this is why I don't get Spuffy.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

So what are your views on Spuffy and Bangel then? Are you saying Buffy didn't love Angel at 16 or not?

She did not love Angel as early as she thought she did, because she didn't know him. Add her immaturity to the equation and that's why she thought she loved him. she was a moony teenager. and I already said it's not just about age - teenagers can be in love. But not with a virtual stranger. And no, age does not determine maturity, but Buffy was not particularly mature for her age in the early seasons. I do believe she loved him by the time he left, because they spent time together and got to know each other. But at first, it was just an infatuation.

I don't think Buffy loved Spike in S6 but by the time she told him she loved him in S7, she did. And it was a more mature love than she ever felt towards Angel. Even as an adult she acted like a child around Angel. Like going to visit him and throwing Riley in his face. Nice one, Buffy. Their relationship brought out her immature (and really annoying) side, which is why I can love Angel but hate Bangel. Buffy and Angel bring out the worst in each other. That's why I prefer Cangel and Spuffy.

 

[Kana]

Buffy's maturity is always an interesting one really. Although I'm not invalidating their love, I don't particularly think that Buffy was all that mature for her age as far as romance is concerned.

Many say talk about how precocious she is but that's more in terms of being a Slayer. Her mother was right, as far as Angel was concerned, she was just like any other young woman in love.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Oh God! When woman falls in love she acts and feels like she never did before. It doesn't matter if she's 16, 25 or 40. Buffy was mature for her age. She knew how to handle with big situations and decisions. Buffy lost her head over Angel. Yeah and? It wasn't because she was 16, it was because she was in love. That's the problem with teenagers, society doesn't know who they are. They're not kids, but they're not adults either. They say you're too old for dolls but to young for sex, alcohol and stuff "adults" can do. Heart of a child can love better then heart of a grown up person. Because it's pure, and innocent, it doesn't mix with reason, it's pure love. So say Buffy was a kid, it's ok, because if she was, she loved Angel with her whole heart.

 

[Flannen]

Well, as for the age thing, here's my take on it: You cannot truly love anybody else unless you love yourself. On extension, it's very unlikely that anybody (Besides, of course, your family) will love you if you don't love yourself. Kind of like how I believe that nobody will ever respect you if you don't respect yourself. Like, if you don't love and respect yourself, then why the heck would anybody else? So, really, most young people don't love and understand themselves enough to love anybody else, and are too selfish to completely care about anybody else (Although I'm not too happy with using the word "Selfish" in this case, but hopefully you guys get what I mean. 🙂 ).

So, who knows, maybe Buffy was at a point in her life where she loved and respected herself, and therefore had the ability to love and respect others as well. Some of the writers have said that in the beginning Buffy was the picture of "The complete selfishness of adolescence" but grew (By S7) into a more selfless and community-based person.

So I suppose that it all boils down to opinion. Personally, I found Buffy to be immature. So while she may have loved Angel, I don't believe that it was in any way a mature or developed love, the type of love that one would want in RL. 🙂

I think that's a nice theory and for some people it may very well be true. But in some cases, certainly in my own, it takes loving someone else and being loved in return to recognise that you deserve to love yourself. Sometimes feeling love from someone else is the only way that you can accept yourself for who you are. If I'd have gone on that theory above then I would have been lonely for a very long time.

And I see that between Angel and Buffy. I still see that between Angel and Buffy. Maybe she wasn't that mature when she was 16 years old, but she is now and her love for Angel has never faltered. And that development of love is what means that she can and does love Angel in an extremely mature way that is not below any love she felt for Spike, if you're inclined to feel that way 😉

 

[Kana]

Oh God! When woman falls in love she acts and feels like she never did before. It doesn't matter if she's 16, 25 or 40. Buffy was mature for her age. She knew how to handle with big situations and decisions. Buffy lost her head over Angel. Yeah and? It wasn't because she was 16, it was because she was in love. That's the problem with teenagers, society doesn't know who they are. They're not kids, but they're not adults either. They say you're too old for dolls but to young for sex, alcohol and stuff "adults" can do. Heart of a child can love better then heart of a grown up person. Because it's pure, and innocent, it doesn't mix with reason, it's pure love. So say Buffy was a kid, it's ok, because if she was, she loved Angel with her whole heart.

It's not really an insult but to me she is precocious as a Slayer but as far as love is concerned, she's well normal. She doesn't strike as particularly mature in relationship decisions, but before I'm lynched by Bangels, I'd say this extends to Season 6 as well. Using Spike to escape the realities of life isn't exactly the most mature response either. Also her response to jerk Parker was a little naive as well. We all learn how to love through our experiences so we shouldn't be so hard on early Buffy or Bangel, it's as real as love can be and it doesn't have to be bound by the shackles of the stereotype nor is it immune to the imperfections of youth.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Yeah, I do agree that Buffy is not a pro in relathionship teritory. But I think that because she is a Slayer, she makes bad decissions. If she was a normal girl, she would probably end up with someone like Riley, someone who's ordinary and good for everyday girl. His charm and romantic side would be everything to her. But Buffy saw bad sides of the world. When she tries to cuddle with her sweetie, something bad happens. Every single time. Buffy's bad in relathionship, that is correct, but that's why she's not alone in them. There is always the other person who will save her day and show her that there is a light in the end of a tunnel. The question is, who that is :/ Maybe Angel or Spike, maybe someone else.

 

[Kana]

I wouldn't even say she's bad in relationships. It's all about the cookie dough. Buffy shouldn't be so hard on herself, but you live, you learn, you grow. But I certainly don't think that Buffy finally 'got it right' Spike or anything.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

It's not really an insult but to me she is precocious as a Slayer but as far as love is concerned, she's well normal. She doesn't strike as particularly mature in relationship decisions, but before I'm lynched by Bangels, I'd say this extends to Season 6 as well. Using Spike to escape the realities of life isn't exactly the most mature response either. Also her response to jerk Parker was a little naive as well.

Right. I don't see how anyone could think Buffy was mature for her age in the early seasons-this must be an example of people watching the same show but seeing totally different ones. She was very typical, just a cheerleader wannabe who liked shopping and hanging out with her friend. That was the whole point of the show in those early seasons, this normal, average girl called to something important. And we see her evolve over the series, but IMO part of her jump in maturity was Angel leaving. She grew up a lot after that.

Anyway, you can be immature and still be in love. You can be 50 and be extremely immature, and you can be 13 and be very mature. It's really not about age. But my belief is that at any age, if you don't know someone, you can't love them.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I wouldn't even say she's bad in relationships. It's all about the cookie dough. Buffy shouldn't be so hard on herself, but you live, you learn, you grow. But I certainly don't think that Buffy finally 'got it right' Spike or anything.

I definitely agree this. Buffy and Angel weren't "True Loves" in my mind because I don't believe that true loves exist. She was young, and it was her first experience with genuine romantic love. She wasn't going to get it perfect the first time, or the second, or the third. She's still developing and evolving to this day.

Besides, she's only in her twenties! I don't believe that any woman should settle down so soon. She should have some time to experiment, have fun, and live before she decides that any person from her past was really "The one". It's more likely that she'll find somebody who's her equal and stay with them, if, in fact, she stays with anybody.

So, I doubt that Angel was the one. He was the one to teach her how to love so that she could continue on to love others with even more strength, but I don't see why they'd get back together.

Spike wasn't the one either. I feel that he was her more mature love, however. Buffy was endlessly more mature by S7. She more or less knew what she wanted in a relationship, and she was mature enough to realize that she shouldn't be looking for long-term relationships at her young age. She and Spike really knew each other. They trusted each other. They knew their boundaries after S6. They worked well together. And Spuffy went out in Style. 🙂

As for young Buffy, I also didn't find her to be mature. Buffy even said, repeatedly, that she just wanted to be a child doing childish things, didn't want to be mature, etc. Well, she wasn't. Her responsibilities were mature, but until S5 she pretty much rejected/misused her calling.

 

[dan k]

I'am confident enough to say that Buffy will end up with either Angel or Spike. I can't see her meeting another person that shapes up with the feelings she has for the two vampires she's been in love with. Riley didn't satisfy her, it took a certain type of bad boy to fulfill her needs. Angel and Spike fitted the bill.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I'am confident enough to say that Buffy will end up with either Angel or Spike. I can't see her meeting another person that shapes up with the feelings she has for the two vampires she's been in love with. Riley didn't satisfy her, it took a certain type of bad boy to fulfill her needs. Angel and Spike fitted the bill.

I disagree. 🙂 Spike and Angel were important because they shaped the mold and showed Buffy what love was like, and they also helped her learn a bit about what she wanted in a relationship. But she's still growing and developing, and she's long past the times in her life when Angel/Spike was the one for her. She's moving forward, and they're on different paths. I think that Spuffy or Bangel being the outcome would be digression. And I don't know about her needing "bad boys"; What she needed was an equal. 🙂