Bangel vs. Spuffy

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think he loved her and wanted something better for her, but I think it had to do with temptation and the risk being too great, as well. Who's to say it takes just sex? Perhaps there are other ways to have a moment of perfect happiness, and if anyone was going to give that to Angel, it was going to be Buffy.

As for Spike and Buffy being rushed, I don't agree. Like Xaphania said, the buildup was huge. And it was to the point where we didn't know if it would ever actually happen, even if the chemistry was always there. I believe Buffy loved him in a more grown-up, adult way. She knew him completely, and he knew her. Real love comes from mutual respect, admiration, support and love. Plus, y'know, physical attraction, which they very obviously have.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Gret post, Kelsey. I totally agree, as usual ;)
K
kndizzle
[No message]
I agree that perfect happiness doesn't have to be sex. I remember in Ats S3, when team Angel were worried that he'd be too happy with Connor & all. & when Jasmine came around Angel was worried he'd get too happy as well. sex just amplifies the happiness.
& I think he left her just so that he could give her a normal life. when she came back to LA in IWRY, she said she was heading to something good, he said "that's why I left, I wanted you to have what you deserve, a normal life". in the end, he gave up his happiness because the PTB said Buffy would die sooner otherwise.
he wasn't worried that they were gonna have sex, he was was worried that she'd grow up & would want to have sex, would want to go in a picnic, would want to sit in the beach in the middle of the day. that's why he left.
 
I Made These Last Month:

bangelvsspuffy2.png




bangelvsspuffy.png




Images: Screencap Paradise - High Quality Screencaps
Text From Gimp
 
I have read a few things here and I realised I have been away for a long time due to my lessons. Anyway, time for my return.

I have no idea what Joss has in mind about whom Buffy ends up with. As shippers, we all want her to end up with a certain person. Buffy's destiny is one of a fighter though, and lately I have been thinking, maybe she is not meant to end up with someone...It's not a pessimistic comment. Cause I do believe the people she trusts and loves will still be in her life, maybe not in a relationship but as co-fighters. As supporters.

Until now, I didn't quite understand her relationship with Spike. And I don't understand how love can be born after the events between them. Maybe she never hated him. She has hated herself, she has hated the world and decided to do sth stupid and reckless, sleep with someone she knows she doesn't love. She knows that she will take advantage of him and he knows that as well. But this thing stopped being stupid as soon as Spike started taking over in that relationship. He could emotionally and physically control her, also taking advantage of her weakness. I don't quite blame him. He had feelings, not as noble as I would like, and since she was the one to start it...he was satisfied.
In the end I saw them, have mutual respect and friendship. I don't know about love. I will always believe that she loves him as a friend and a person she can trust. he offered her support when noone did in season 7.(I don't mention season 6 cause there is no way I would say he "brought her back to life" ).

As for Angel...it's the thing that happens in a few people. Sometimes, you can meet a person in your life and something inside screams "he/she is the one for you...you can't imagine life without that person"...this is how I feel whenever I saw them on screen! I won't analyse anything about them, I just believe that when i see them together, I sense something so strong that it is impossible to neglect.
 
G
GrrArghx
[No message]
K
kndizzle
[No message]
i haven't got anything against Spuffy: Spike is my favorite character, and i like is evolution along the show seasons, and i think that in the end, that relationship made them both grow.
but i just don't FEEL it.
bangel moments move me, and the actors have better chemistry, while spuffy moments let me cold.
 
As for Angel...it's the thing that happens in a few people. Sometimes, you can meet a person in your life and something inside screams "he/she is the one for you...you can't imagine life without that person"...this is how I feel whenever I saw them on screen! I won't analyse anything about them, I just believe that when i see them together, I sense something so strong that it is impossible to neglect.

(I know that this is going to sound condescending when I say it, but please, PLEASE, believe me when I say that it isn't. It's just the opinion , knowledge, and experience of someone who has been alive for three times as long as you have.)

I've seen people who were "made for each other," who quite literally fell in love the moment that they first met, who never even considered sharing their lives with anyone else. It's rare, and it's wonderful. It's the stuff of legends and dreams. Unfortunately, like legends, it's at least partially mythical, and like dreams, it's something that the dreamer eventually wakes up from.

First love, and that's what was portrayed in the Bangel relationship, is rarely, if ever, last love. It MAY be, but doesn't have to be, the greatest love that we ever experience. It almost certainly was Buffy's first real love, and it more than likely, from what we have been shown in flashbacks of Liam's human life, the first time that he has ever loved anyone or anything, at least anyone who openly returned that love. (Maybe he actually loved his little sister. We know that she loved him, but any reciprocal love remains pure conjecture) Neither Buffy nor Angel had anything to compare their feelings to. It was love, and it was real, and it was something that neither one had ever really felt before. That's enough to convince either of them that the other is THE ONE.

Probably the greatest single thing about first love is that without it, there can never be a second love, or a third. First love is the very foundation on which we build every subsequent relationship that we will ever experience. It's the standard we will always measure those later loves by. But, as the poet said:

What though the radiance which was once so bright
Be now for ever taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind...

Buffy and Angel were brought together at a time in both of their lives when they both desperately needed something that neither had ever had before. What they had has been been the key to success of Harlequin Romance Novels for decades. Unfortunately, real life goes on after the last page of the romance novel has been read. Angel left Sunnydale at the end of Season 3, and it almost killed Buffy. But she got over it in time to form a relationship with Riley, a relationship that was, admittedly not one of the legendary proportions as what she had shared with Angel, but, by her own admission, he was "someone who she could trust," even if she meant only that he could be trusted not to wake up the next morning a monster intent on destroying the world.

The fact that what Buffy and Angel felt for each other in Sunnydale has run its course and is in the past in no way precludes the possibility that they might meet again as a mature man and woman and fall in love all over again. It simply means that what an adolescent girl once felt for a handsome, mysterious, tortured man, and what a lonely man saw in a young girl who was bravely facing the prospect of an early death after literally protecting the world from all of the forces of hell is now part of each one's past.

Adult, mature Buffy may one day be reunited someday with an Angel who has finally reconciled himself to the horrors and sins of his past life, and that woman and that man may finally be ready and to live their lives together, But that's sometime in the future, exactly what Buffy told Angel in that cemetery in Sunnydale the last time that they met. Angel might very well be the one who is the recipient of Buffy's cookies.

But in the meantime, Buffy loves Spike the best.
 
@ White Avenger

I respect both your experience and opinion. And I have to say I agree with what you said except for the last sentence of course!:biggrin3:

Believe me, it's not because I am young and inexperienced that I don't understand mature love. I have seen maturity in bangel...many moments which have touched my heart. Angel was strong enough and loved Buffy so much, that he was capable to let her live the normal human life. Despite the fact that Buffy is not the typical normal girl as we all know. I have seen him standing by her side when she lost her mother, I have seen him coming back just to apologise for the way he talked to her in Sanctuary.

Personally, I don't believe that I can ever have love at first sight in my life. I am a person who admits liking a person possibly after 2 years of acquaintance with that person! (I am a weirdo!!!:biggrin3: ) But there are people who have experienced that. And when I see Buffy, I am not saying she can't love any other person. I believe that a person can love more than one people, in different ways. But in the end what matters the most is the person we love the most IMO. And I think Angel is that person for Buffy. I am just saying that when those two get together, I witness soemthing very powerful on screen! With spuffy I can't feel that, I am sorry, but I respect it.
 
The more and more I see Bangel being described as nothing but 'first love' the less and less I agree with it. I think it's one thing I always seem to get most frustrated over in these 'ships wars. While it was, technically, their 'first love' it goes so far beyond that.

Them being each other's first loves is not the only reason that their connection and devotion to one another has last as long as it has. It isn't just a nice memory for them to share and think back on, it still manifests itself as strongly as it always has done. They were lucky enough to find their 'great love' in their 'first'.

A 'first love' is a part of someone's past but for Buffy and Angel they are very much a part of each other's present and have been since they parted. The fact that mature, adult Buffy can still feel the same overwhelming and emotion for a man who she loved as a more inexperienced, naive person speaks volumes.

And being lucky enough to find that 'great love of your life' in your "first" love, isn't the stuff of legends and fairytales and dreams.

WA you may well feel that Bangel only portrays 'first' love but I think you greatly underestimate them by doing so.
 
G
GrrArghx
This post = awesome.
D
dan k
great post
E
Eleftheria
[No message]
N
Nikkolas
[No message]
Flannie, awesome post, and I couldn't agree more. I always saw first love as something special, something powerful, not only because of Bangel, but because of myself, and I get really angry when I see people refering to it just as first love. Yes, in some situations first love can be only a stage of our life, something we should learn from for sake of our other relathionships, but I don't think it's impossible to find your true love in your first love.
 
Flannen
Flannen
Nope not impossible at all, just very lucky :)
The more and more I see Bangel being described as nothing but 'first love' the less and less I agree with it.

I'm as guilty as anyone here of calling what Buffy and Angel had as "first love," but I don't think that I have ever preceded that term with "nothing more than." As I have said before, first love is undoubtedly the most important love that a person can experience, for the simple reason that, without first love, there can be no second love. Our first love is what we compare every subsequent relationship with. And I do agree (and not just because Joss has more or less guaranteed it) that Buffy and Angel might actually wind up together on a permanent basis.

What Buffy and Angel felt for each other in Sunnydale was, by definition, first love, without any "nothing more than" added to it. I don't think that anyone can argue with that. Where the disagreement comes is when some of us state that, both of them moved on, found other loves, and, to varying degrees, established new relationships to replace that first love. Buffy admitted to Angel that she loved and trusted Riley, and no one who saw her chasing after that helicopter, trying and failing to stop the "long haul guy" from leaving, could deny that she believed her feelings for him to be real. Buffy and Spike together in Season 6 was undoubtedly a disaster, but what they had in Season 7 was a totally different matter. I have no doubt that she was, by the end of the season, genuinely in love with him, and there would have been no way for the most rabid Bangel to have denied it if both had survived into a televised 8th season.

Buffy moved on from Angel, and she moved on from Riley. Angel moved on from Buffy, and he moved on from Cordy. That is. I say once more, no reason to rule out the possibility that Buffy and Angel will some day be reunited and fall in love all over again. But what they will feel, what they will have, at that time, will be a completely different, more mature love that they shared in Sunnydale, because they are not the same two people who met and taught each other what real love could be, and because of that, the love that they would share at that time would necessarily be something completely different simply because they are no longer those same two people.

But Buffy still loves Spike the best.
 
Boy oh boy, this never will end. And you know what? That's awesome. I love how strongly fans feel about this. I hope the arguing never stops.

Oh, and by the way, Buffy loves Spike the best.*



*Just kidding. Sort of.
 
S
Spikefan31
Hehe. Don't say 'just kidding'. Never accept defeat and let them win! :P
E
Eleftheria
I have always loved discussions here!!!
PrincessBuffy16
PrincessBuffy16
That's the beauty (:
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
It'll only end when every Btvs fan is dead and gone. AKA never. :D
I'm as guilty as anyone here of calling what Buffy and Angel had as "first love," but I don't think that I have ever preceded that term with "nothing more than." As I have said before, first love is undoubtedly the most important love that a person can experience, for the simple reason that, without first love, there can be no second love. Our first love is what we compare every subsequent relationship with. And I do agree (and not just because Joss has more or less guaranteed it) that Buffy and Angel might actually wind up together on a permanent basis.

You're only reiterating the same point which I still disagree with. Yes, they may well be each other's first loves but they are both lucky enough to have found that great love in their first.

What Buffy and Angel felt for each other in Sunnydale was, by definition, first love, without any "nothing more than" added to it. I don't think that anyone can argue with that. Where the disagreement comes is when some of us state that, both of them moved on, found other loves, and, to varying degrees, established new relationships to replace that first love. Buffy admitted to Angel that she loved and trusted Riley, and no one who saw her chasing after that helicopter, trying and failing to stop the "long haul guy" from leaving, could deny that she believed her feelings for him to be real. Buffy and Spike together in Season 6 was undoubtedly a disaster, but what they had in Season 7 was a totally different matter. I have no doubt that she was, by the end of the season, genuinely in love with him, and there would have been no way for the most rabid Bangel to have denied it if both had survived into a televised 8th season.

Believing that Buffy was in love with Spike by the end of season seven doesn't even really matter in this instance. Yes, they both moved on and loved other people, no one's denying that. My point is that they have some more between them than a 'first love' and 'always be in your heart' thing because despite loving those other people, when they come together AFTER being with others, their connection is as strong as it ever has been.

Buffy moved on from Angel, and she moved on from Riley. Angel moved on from Buffy, and he moved on from Cordy. That is. I say once more, no reason to rule out the possibility that Buffy and Angel will some day be reunited and fall in love all over again. But what they will feel, what they will have, at that time, will be a completely different, more mature love that they shared in Sunnydale, because they are not the same two people who met and taught each other what real love could be, and because of that, the love that they would share at that time would necessarily be something completely different simply because they are no longer those same two people.

I absolutely agree. I, for one, have never said otherwise. And that is what makes them mean more than 'first love' to each other.

But Buffy still loves Spike the best.

Not really winning me over. I think you need a new line. 😉
 
white avenger
white avenger
But it's such a wonderful line, and I love it so much (plus, it's so TRUTHFUL)
This "first love" people are talking about when discussing Bangel doesn't tell the whole story. When Angel returns in seasons 5 and 7 Buffy is a grown Woman yet she still feels these intense feelings for Angel. The feelings she has for him will never alter so the idea that they will need to fall in love again in a more mature fashion is something i don't agree with.

Buffy's feelings for Angel have never changed. She loves him now, tomorrow and will do for the rest of her life. She may have moved on from him but she's not fallen out of love with him. The problem i have is witj "the fall in love with again". In my eyes they don't need to do that as even when they are apart they are still in love with one another. You see that in "Chosen" and you also see it in "The Girl in question" when Angel still acts like a lovesick puppy.
 
white avenger
white avenger
I would put more stock in the Season 5 and 7 reunions if they had been more than just momentary
I'd like to say why, really, I don't like Bangel. It's because I don't believe that the "Bangel" type of love exists in real life. In fact, I'm positive that the "overwhelming, soul mates, love-at-first-sight" love doesn't really exist. And that makes me see Bangel as unrealistic and overdramatic, and I really can't relate to it. Whereas with Spuffy, while it's also not the most believable 'ship in the world, has characteristics that us mere mortals can more easily relate to. 😀
 
I'd like to say why, really, I don't like Bangel. It's because I don't believe that the "Bangel" type of love exists in real life. In fact, I'm positive that the "overwhelming, soul mates, love-at-first-sight" love doesn't really exist. And that makes me see Bangel as unrealistic and overdramatic, and I really can't relate to it. Whereas with Spuffy, while it's also not the most believable 'ship in the world, has characteristics that us mere mortals can more easily relate to. 😀

If what you say is true about the Bangel type of love not existing in real life then that's quite sad. For me the soul mate, love at first sight angle is the best type of love. Its the most passionate, comforting kind of love as you know what you feel is incredibly strong and worth fighting for.
 
If what you say is true about the Bangel type of love not existing in real life then that's quite sad. For me the soul mate, love at first sight angle is the best type of love. Its the most passionate, comforting kind of love as you know what you feel is incredibly strong and worth fighting for.

I see that as a love that's so consuming it swallows you whole. 😉 My idea of real love would be the Tillow 'ship, or even the Woz 'ship. Frunn is pretty high up there, too. As is Cangel. Friends who have similar interests and, over time, grow to love each other in a romantic light. Not two people who know nothing about each other randomly deciding that there's no one else in the world for them. 😀
 
M
Marisa
[No message]
But that's the thing, it depends on how you see Bangel. I'm not really a believer in love at first sight and I don't think that's what Bangel had. But that doesn't mean that other people don't see it that way. At most I believe in an initial feeling of connecting and meeting someone and quite quickly thinking 'we could have something here'. I do, however, believe in overwhelming, soul mate love, whether that be the first person you fall in love with or the twentieth but like I said above, for Buffy and Angel they were lucky enough for it to be the first.

I mentioned this in a Bangel thread recently that B/A weren't actually a couple who barely knew each other and just decided they were made for each other. Buffy herself comments that she has known him little under a year and even though she proceeds to say she doesn't know a lot about him, it isn't as instantaneous and undeveloped as people seem to assume. They had an instant connection that made both feel like there was something real and long term between them and over time that developed into something more tangible. That is a type of love I see everyday.

As you go through your own life and watch your friends fall into that kind of love then you can see that it really exists (which trust me it does) and if there are a fair number of people who seem to relate to B/A on that level, that's got to say something.

As for preferring a relationship like Tillow? No thank you, lol. It's such an unequal relationship where one person is downtrodden by the other. But unfortunately, that's another type of love I see everyday.
 
G
GrrArghx
[No message]
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom