• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Cangel vs. Bangel

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,503
Location
Australia
I'd probably buy it more if Charisma were playing the role of Buffy. Sarah didn't sell it in the execution (to me). Nothing against Sarah! She's a great actress, but her chemistry with David was just lukewarm to me.
I feel like we've watched two completely different shows (or two completely different sets of actors) but oh well, each to their own.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I'd probably buy it more if Charisma were playing the role of Buffy. Sarah didn't sell it in the execution (to me). Nothing against Sarah! She's a great actress, but her chemistry with David was just lukewarm to me. To be fair to Sarah, in her defense, you either do or don't have naturally strong chemistry with a person, so there's that.
Sarah who? There is no Sarah. There is only Buffy ... and she is a real person who loves Angel with all her heart.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,011
Age
30
Bangel feels more natural to me and is poetic in that a slayer falls in love with the one vampire in all the world who has a soul.

Cangel doesn't make sense in that, given Cordelia's and Buffy's attitudes towards each other, there is no way in hell that Cordelia would want to be second best to Buffy. Angelus sort of becomes a marker in any relationship Angel has. Buffy gave him a moment of perfect happiness and Angelus came out to play. If Cordelia slept with Angel and he didn't lose his soul then it's kind of a kick in a teeth that the only time he felt perfect happiness was with his ex. Also Cordelia's ben fancying Angel since the early days of Buffy and he showed literally zero interest in her other than civil politeness so the fact he's suddenly in love with her is a bit of bad writing.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
248
Age
33
Location
Germany
It maybe doesn't make sense for some of you - there are even a few who see it differently, like you. I think it is ridiculous to pick on the old topic :)

Buffy maybe "gave" him perfect bliss. We all know what happened afterwards :) And in defense of Cangel we never know what would have happened when they sleept with each other. The only think we have as example is the Dream sequence - and I think is more meaningful to lose the soul in the sence of that.

Both Buffy as well as Cordelia means a lot to Angel - one is the past the other one is the future. And it's mean to cheap the other relationship.
 

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
457
Age
34
It maybe doesn't make sense for some of you - there are even a few who see it differently, like you. I think it is ridiculous to pick on the old topic :)

Buffy maybe "gave" him perfect bliss. We all know what happened afterwards :) And in defense of Cangel we never know what would have happened when they sleept with each other. The only think we have as example is the Dream sequence - and I think is more meaningful to lose the soul in the sence of that.

Both Buffy as well as Cordelia means a lot to Angel - one is the past the other one is the future. And it's mean to cheap the other relationship.
How is Cordelia the future? Angel tried getting back together with Buffy when Cordelia was in a coma and after she died he still fought to get Buffy back. The AtS writers never even planned on reviving Cordelia in s5 but they forgot to check schedules with SMG so she wasn't available to film the 100th episode so they rewrote it as Cordelia's swan song. Even then they planned on SMG coming back later in the season but the scheduling still wasn't right then they didn't want her to be in the final episode because a Bangel reunion would be so big it would overshadow everything else.

It wasn't Cordelia in the s4 dream sequence. She was possessed by Jasmine (Angel's granddaughter). It couldn't of been Cordelia in it since the woman in the dream willingly chose to be with & break up with Connor. Cordelia was never in a romantic or sexual relationship with Connor, her body was. It is like if Riley had a dream sequence about Faith-possessing-Buffy.

Cangel cheapens Bangel because it invalidated Angel's reason for breaking up with Buffy. Suddenly we're supposed to ignore that he is an immortal who can't make love or impregnate or grow old with a woman he loves. Angel being a cursed vampire "who can have anything but love" is part of the premise of the spinoff. Angel realized he wanted to get married & have kids because he wanted Buffy to be his wife & the mother of his children. He literally dreamt of their wedding (Vera Wang gown and everything), put a claddagh ring on her marriage finger, and brought up his insecurity about not being able to impregnate her several times. He left because as a cursed vampire he couldn't do that. But suddenly halfway into AtS it isn't an issue? The AtS writers admitted that they intended Cangel to be a 2 season arc. They built it up in s3 in order to tear it down in s4. They were going to do a gender flipped BtVS s2 except Cordelia wasn't going to come back the next season. They put her in a coma instead of killing her off because when they rewrote s4 to include possession & another mystical pregnancy (to fit with Charisma getting pregnant) they felt it took away the impact and didn't know what to do with her character.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
248
Age
33
Location
Germany
Why do you think that Bangel was cheated by Cangel?

I mean seriously - is not this the kind of thing that we all separate us from our former partner? We all change over the years. Somebody getting to know new people? We all get to know someone new and fall in love.

Or in our case, my friend and I were friends and then fell in love. I also compare more with Cangel than with Bangel - but I don't hate them. I shipped them when I was younger. I just feel I compare more with Angel and Cordelia.

We are all changing constantly and that's running of things - so where is the problem please? With Angel and Cordelia - they both have changed after they left Sunnydale.

Where do you think they cheated on Bangel?
 

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,416
Black Thorn
Like I said before, Cangel just didn't feel right to me with the brother and sister vibe they had in their relationship. And it's not like they were not written to be familial - it's quite emphasised in the show, thematically.

Is this a Cangel appreciation thread? No. I will have this opinion and it's not a personal attack on you. I don't even know you.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
248
Age
33
Location
Germany
I did not mean you. My messages was for someone else. Everyone should be allowed to have their own opinion. It was never my intention that I wanted to persuade anyone.

For you it may feel like a family base - not for me. I never said that they have a brother and sister vibe.

Every shall be allowed to ship - what they want to ship without feeling worse that their favorite ship will be cheapen!!! Just because other can't stand it :)
 

Taake

That's right, I'm watching you...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
17,356
Age
35
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
I did not mean you. My messages was for someone else. Everyone should be allowed to have their own opinion. It was never my intention that I wanted to persuade anyone.

For you it may feel like a family base - not for me. I never said that they have a brother and sister vibe.

Every shall be allowed to ship - what they want to ship without feeling worse that their favorite ship will be cheapen!!! Just because other can't stand it :)

I agree that everyone gets to ship what they please, but as the thread is called ”Cangel vs Bangel” it is not surprising that people are arguing for their preference between the two, as the OP clearly intended.

This should be done with respect to other shippers, but as it is placed within the Battle ’ship forum there is an understanding that this will be about the interpretations of what viewers consider positive and negative aspects of a relationship. Critique is therefore a natural part of the thread and shippers who don’t wish to read anything negative in regards to their own ship may feel more comfortable posting in a less combative thread.

:)
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,011
Age
30
Cangel was kind of doomed to fail from the very start. As I said above, Angelus kind of becomes a marker within a relationship. Buffy and Angel didn't know that Angel's curse could be broken hence why they went full steam ahead with their relationship and Angelus emerged. Had Angel met someone new who didn't know about the curse, then there was a chance that Angelus could re-emerge despite Angel's apparent reluctance to commit because he knows about the curse and since it only takes a moment of true happiness, he can't stop how he feels when all it takes is one moment. However, both Cordelia and Angel know about the curse so either Cordelia has to settle with being second best to Buffy or she willingly risks Angelus emerging which is very irresponsible of her.

Angel and Buffy will always be each other's true love because that is how they were written alongside the tragedy that they can't be together or else there is dire consequences.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Satanic Panda
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
8,658
Location
Soviet Union 2.0
Black Thorn
Both Buffy as well as Cordelia means a lot to Angel - one is the past the other one is the future. And it's mean to cheap the other relationship.
Well, here's how I see it; Angel loved Buffy. She was his soul mate, his true love, but he couldn't be with her because of the curse.

On the other hand, Cordelia was hanging around all the time and she was...convenient. You know, kind of like a McDonald's. Easy and right there. Angel didn't love Cordelia. She was just there to scratch an itch, plus the whole thing felt forced and icky. And there's no way she can even be compared to Buffy. I mean, seriously. C'mon now.
 

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
457
Age
34
Joss Whedon himself said that on AtS he tried to use Cordelia to redo Buffy's story (shallow SoCal teen who gets super powers & depth) since BtVS the tv series was a year after Buffy became the Slayer so she already gained that. Cordelia's arc and Cangel are LITERALLY a reboot of Buffy & Bangel.

* Buffy was conceived, born, raised, & lived in LA for 16+ years. Cordelia moved to LA.
* Buffy's first BtVS episode is the start of her life in a new town. Cordelia's first AtS episode is the start of her life in a new town.
* Buffy has visions & prophetic dreams since she was at least 15, inherited from the death of the previous person who had them. Cordelia gets visions at about 19, inherited from the death of the previous person who had them.
* Buffy is friends with a male British Watcher (Giles), a nerdy girl who is good with computers (Willow), & a guy with no superpowers (Xander). Cordelia becomes friends with a male British Watcher (Wesley), a nerdy girl who is good with computers (Winifred), & a guy with no superpowers (Gunn).
* Buffy spends part of an episode in bed because everyone's hurts are amplified in her head. Cordelia spends part of an episode in bed because everyone's hurts are amplified in her head.
* There is an episode showing an alt world in which everything is horrible for the group because Buffy isn't there. There is an episode showing a (fake) alt world in which everything is horrible because Cordelia isn't there.
* Buffy is half demon. Cordelia is tricked into being half demon (the next year retconned into half PTB DNA to be durable for the Jasmine possession/pregnancy).
* Buffy ends s5 by ascending to a higher realm (Heaven) and comes back the next season months later. Cordelia ends s3 by ascending to a higher realm (wherever Jasmine was) and comes back the next season months later.
* The Scooby Gang have amnesia for an episode because Willow tried to erase Buffy's memories of being in that higher realm. The Fang Gang have amnesia for an episode because they tried to return Cordelia's memories when she returned from the higher realm.
* The first guy Buffy slept with post high school only pretended to like her to manipulate her into sex. The first guy Cordelia slept with post high school only pretended to like her to manipulate her into sex.
* Buffy goes through a portal in LA to a demon dimension where humans are made slaves and rescues 7 people including Anne who is really close to Gunn. Cordelia falls through a portal in LA to a demon dimension where humans are made slaves and the group rescue Winifred who is really close to Gunn.

* Buffy trains every week in martial arts, in s3 did Take Chi & sparring with Angel. Cordelia decides in s3 to have Angel train her every week in martial arts.
* Buffy & Angel are possessed by ghost lovers. Cordelia & Angel are possessed by ghost lovers.
* Buffy & Angel nap on his bed. Cordelia & Angel nap on his bed.
* Angel holds Buffy's hand as she lays suffering in bed. Angel holds Cordelia's hand as she lays suffering in bed.
* Buffy's boyfriend Riley leaves because he knows she is still in love with Angel. Cordelia's boyfriend Groo leaves because he thinks she is in love with Angel.
* Angel is jealous of guys who get to be in the sunlight & have sex with Buffy. Angel is jealous of guys who get to be in the sunlight & have sex with Cordelia.
* In BtVS s4 Angel wants to be at the dinner table beside Buffy. In AtS s4 Angel wants to be at the dinner table beside Cordelia.
* Angel is there for Buffy's surprise birthday party. Angel is there for Cordelia's surprise birthday party.
* The dialogue in Awakening which led to Angel losing his soul purposely plagerized the dialogue in Surprise which led to Angel losing his soul.
 
GraceK
GraceK
Cordelia is a second rate Buffy wannabe with Mom hair

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
457
Age
34
I forgot to mention a few:
* Buffy is blonde. Cordelia dyes her hair blonde.
* Buffy's old friend (Ford) from LA arrives in Sunnydale and becomes a vampire. Cordelia's old friend (Harmony) from Sunnydale arrives in LA and she's a vampire.

Some say Cangel is Angel moving on or that it is going from high school puppy love to mature adult love. I don't buy it. Not only because the AtS writers admitted they intended Cangel to be a 2 season arc ending in Cordelia's death but because it is a version of the same story told in a scenario in which Angel didn't date Buffy but stayed chastely by her side fighting the fight (which is what those who accuse him of being a pedophile wanted). Yet no one has an issue with Angel meeting Cordelia when she was 16, hiring her when she was 18, and her still being a teenager until mid AtS s2. In City Of Cordelia is only 2 years older than Buffy was in Halloween, that is still the same age bracket. Why do people ask if Angel groomed Buffy but no one asks if Angel groomed Cordelia?

Buffy didn't have much dating experience before Angel, that's true. But other than going to dances & the Bronze & making out in cars, the only experience Cordelia had was a single one night stand and Xander. They hadn't gotten to sex or "I love you" or meeting the parents or discussing the future.

The first time Angel & Buffy spoke she had been slaying mostly on her own for a year, just started her reign as Guardian of the Hellmouth, and could jump 8 feet to handstand on an overhead pipe and kick him to the ground & backflip down quick enough to prevent him from getting up. In WTTH/TH Buffy kicked Darla's butt, was already investigating paranormal events (dead body in the locker), was forming her team, slayed a half dozen vampires, backflipped over a fence, went on a rescue mission towards The Master's lair, and had a prophetic dream.

Some say Angel & Cordelia grew together as though Angel & Buffy didn't. Angel started AtS already on the right path. He had an apartment with attached office, slayed vampires, and was working cases with Doyle. That was all before Cordelia joined the team. Angel before Buffy had barely spoken to humans in 98 years, was homeless eating rats for 19 years, and not helping anyone. It was seeing then being around Buffy that got Angel to shower, change his clothes, train in martial arts, go on patrol, act as detective & procurer (the Harvest, the codex, Sunset club, Order if Taraka, Glove of Mynnegon), try to help the hopeless (Faith in Consequences), help prevent apocalypses, work with people to defeat evil, etc.

Without Bangel, there could be no Cangel. But Bangel had to be separated and Buffy downgraded in importance for Cangel to happen.

Buffy got Angel saying "I love you", holding hands, napping with someone in bed, dancing in public, going on dates, etc. He was going to ice skate. He bought presents. He had candlelit indoor picnics. Angelus told Spike that Buffy made him feel "like a human being."

Cangel is no different than if after Buffy's death, Dawn became the new Slayer and Angel started dating her. If after Xander left Anya at the altar, Halfrek loses her powers & becomes a Scooby and he starts dating her. If after Oz left Willow he began dating Amy Madison.
 
Last edited:

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
248
Age
33
Location
Germany
I mean seriously what makes you think that Cordelia is second places? There is NO second places in a relationship!

And just because Buffy was the first Angel loved after a long time doesn't added someone directly to second place.

And since Buffy and Angel wasn't together at the time as Cangel started - they didn't cheat on Bangel. Since you can't cheat on someone if you aren't together at the time.

Or did Briley or Spuffy cheat on Bangel as well?

I like Bangel till I'll Remember you - after that Angel belong to Cordelia.

What is more convenient to fall in love with your best friend, the person you know fully - or to see someone and the obsession takes over?

Argh I hate that to be in the middel of Cangel and Bangel. I like Cangel and Bangel and it's hard to be in between these two. Since both are unique in their own way.

It's not easy to partisan when you like both. One of them always gets into trouble. But I try both to stand up for both of them to a certain level of the same attention and support.

At least it's my opinin on the matter. Nobody wants to push anyone's opinion. It would be boring if everyone had the same attitude to a topic.
 

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
457
Age
34
I mean seriously what makes you think that Cordelia is second places? There is NO second places in a relationship!

And just because Buffy was the first Angel loved after a long time doesn't added someone directly to second place.

And since Buffy and Angel wasn't together at the time as Cangel started - they didn't cheat on Bangel. Since you can't cheat on someone if you aren't together at the time.

Or did Briley or Spuffy cheat on Bangel as well?

I like Bangel till I'll Remember you - after that Angel belong to Cordelia.

What is more convenient to fall in love with your best friend, the person you know fully - or to see someone and the obsession takes over?

Argh I hate that to be in the middel of Cangel and Bangel. I like Cangel and Bangel and it's hard to be in between these two. Since both are unique in their own way.

It's not easy to partisan when you like both. One of them always gets into trouble. But I try both to stand up for both of them to a certain level of the same attention and support.

At least it's my opinin on the matter. Nobody wants to push anyone's opinion. It would be boring if everyone had the same attitude to a topic.
Angel did not know Cordelia fully since she was able to hide the fact that she was DYING of brain deterioration for two years. He didn't find out until she fell into a coma and Frunn went to her place and found a box full of meds. Angel couldn't tell Cordelia was possessed.

Cordelia didn't know Angel fully or she wouldn't assume every time he spent any time with a woman he was going to sleep with her. She wouldn't need Wesley to tell her that Angel is depressed. She would have stayed helping him after he fired the group realizing he was downward spiraling. She wouldn't be the last one to know he slept with Darla. She would have picked up on his feelings for her at any point in s3. She would have not had him accompany Groo to pick up magic condoms so she could have lots of sex with Groo.

How does Angel belong to Cordelia after I Will Remember You? The next episode began with him alone shut in his apartment missing Buffy. In Sanctuary, he tells Buffy that he hasn't moved on from her and seeing her again cuts him up inside. He also says he isn't allowed to be in a romantic relationship. It's kind of the point of breaking up with her while he was still in love with & wanting to be with her.

Buffy could be with other people because it's why he broke up with her. "You deserve more. You should be with someone who can take you into the light, someone who can make love to you, and kids. You have no idea how fast it all goes Buffy. Pretty soon you'll want it all." And she's not the one with the happiness clause.

Angel & Buffy weren't together because he was an immortal vampire who would go evil if he's too happy. That doesn't change on AtS. Why is his immortality and inability to go into sunlight and the happiness clause suddenly not a factor when Cordelia is involved? The issues that prevented Angel from being with Buffy would prevent him from being with Cordelia if he was in love with her.

Buffy wasn't just the first person Angel loved in a long time. She was the first person he loved since becoming a vampire. Just counting his years since being sired & the century in Hell, Angel was 346 when he left Buffy out of self hatred (believing he wasn't good enough, would cause her misery, and wasn't able to provide everything a woman deserves).

Why isn't the AtS version of Mayor Wilkins & Joyce Summers telling Angel that Cordelia deserves better than to be in the darkness without sex or children or someone she could grow old with? Why is no one fearing Angel being close with Cordelia, that it'd activate the happiness clause?
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
248
Age
33
Location
Germany
1. ) Yes, of course she had hide the fact that she will die from the visions. She didn't want to worry Angel and her other friends.

And Cordelia did not want pity from her friends. It's easier to say that everything is okay with you, rather than admitting that you're sick.

2. ) Where was Buffy when Angel was depressed? - I mean when they are soulmates they are supposed to know it. That something is wrong. Sure, Cordelia was been sent away, but what else was left for her? She had to accept it.

And the thing with Groo - didn't you notice that she cut his her anddressed him like someone we know??

3. ) This is an excuse - Buffy was allowed to have Riley as well as Spike - but Angel must not fall in love again. No, he is doomed to stay all alone. Just because he broke up with Buffy. If Buffy would have miss Angel, she would have stay in contact with Angel no matter what happened. Let's say at least calls regularly.

But she did not bend a single finger. On the contrary, Buffy said it cheekily in his face. That she had fallen in love with again. Also a litte bit decency of her I would have expected.

4. ) Too bad we never got that far to really find out if the happiness clause had come into force.

5. ) With Mayor Wilkins & Joyce Summers. It's not Cordelia's fault. She had no sensible parents to take care of her. So we can not say what her parents thought of the fact.

And the thing with I'll Remember you - after that I started to ship them :)
 

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
457
Age
34
1. ) Yes, of course she had hide the fact that she will die from the visions. She didn't want to worry Angel and her other friends.

And Cordelia did not want pity from her friends. It's easier to say that everything is okay with you, rather than admitting that you're sick.

2. ) Where was Buffy when Angel was depressed? - I mean when they are soulmates they are supposed to know it. That something is wrong. Sure, Cordelia was been sent away, but what else was left for her? She had to accept it.

And the thing with Groo - didn't you notice that she cut his her anddressed him like someone we know??

3. ) This is an excuse - Buffy was allowed to have Riley as well as Spike - but Angel must not fall in love again. No, he is doomed to stay all alone. Just because he broke up with Buffy. If Buffy would have miss Angel, she would have stay in contact with Angel no matter what happened. Let's say at least calls regularly.

But she did not bend a single finger. On the contrary, Buffy said it cheekily in his face. That she had fallen in love with again. Also a litte bit decency of her I would have expected.

4. ) Too bad we never got that far to really find out if the happiness clause had come into force.

5. ) With Mayor Wilkins & Joyce Summers. It's not Cordelia's fault. She had no sensible parents to take care of her. So we can not say what her parents thought of the fact.

And the thing with I'll Remember you - after that I started to ship them :)
Cordelia hid the physical damage of the visions because she knew her friends would REMOVE or transfer the visions and she didn't want that. She would rather die with the visions than to live without them. She tied her self worth & livelihood into the visions and if they were taken away she would have to examine her life and what she had going for her. It's no different than if Joyce hid the brain tumor because it came attached to running a successful gallery and refused to have the tumor removed.

Cordelia was willingly dying. She didn't do the one thing that would save her life: get rid of the visions. It wasn't out of her control. It didn't happen to her.

Angel leaving town because of the happiness clause isn't the same as firing someone. When Angel & Buffy were separated while still in the same city, she was there for him when he needed it. She spent Christmas trying to stop him from committing suicide and even after he announced he was leaving town she let him drink her blood to cure him. Cordelia acted like Angel pushing everyone away was some huge injustice she had faced even though Wesley, Gunn, & her were still AI. The only thing that really changed is they had to rent an office instead of working out of Angel's free buildings and they didn't have Angel's superpowers.

Buffy told Angel about Riley because he defended someone who sexually violated her & nearly got her executed (I still don't think he even knows what Faith did) and was extremely protective of Faith when to Buffy that was her abuser. It made Buffy think Angel didn't love her anymore.

Yeah, Cordelia dressed Groo up like Angel. That's not a good thing. She couldn't tell at all that Angel had feelings for her and if she could it's really shitty to flaunt her new lover by giving him Angel's hair cut & clothes and hanging all over him in front of Angel.

Angel wasn't doomed to be alone because he broke up with Buffy. It is why he broke up with Buffy. The happiness clause isn't an excuse for why he can't be with women after Buffy. It affects his romantic relationships period. Any woman he falls in love with. If you accept it as reason Bangel ended than you should accept it as reason Cangel shouldn't begin.
 
Last edited:

Taake

That's right, I'm watching you...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
17,356
Age
35
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
Joss Whedon himself said that on AtS he tried to use Cordelia to redo Buffy's story (shallow SoCal teen who gets super powers & depth) since BtVS the tv series was a year after Buffy became the Slayer so she already gained that. Cordelia's arc and Cangel are LITERALLY a reboot of Buffy & Bangel.
Lol, I must have missed him saying that, but that explains a lot. Basically he saw that people really liked Becoming 1 & 2 and thought he'd just re-create the magic but flip it so Angel had to kill his loved one turned evil? I've called Joss Whedon a hack before, and it seems I'll do it again. I love the shows obviously, but stuff like this is why I cringe when I hear him called a "genius".

Personally, I think that Cangel could've become a real thing, if the showrunner and writers had taken the above mentioned whole doomed to be alone / happiness clause as seriously as they did on BtVS. I feel like they just ignored it (maybe thinking the background was too complex for non-Buffy watchers) but that means they end up with a pair that makes no sense and both act incredibly OOC because of it as Angel's situation has not changed.

Cordelia is the one member of the AI team who's seen the reality of Angelus. She does not take that lightly, "Oh I'll kill you dead" she threatens (albeit playfully) in season 1 when they talk about it, earlier in the episode -when she thought maybe he was Angelus again - she showed a real readiness to kill him. They should've had a discussion about that in later seasons if this romance was to have a chance, because Cordelia saw the whole Bangel thing and how it ended. Instead they just make up that when she was higher being Cordelia saw everything he did as Angelus… ehm, ok? That's weird and doesn't change the situation either way, but of course, by then the ship had kind of passed already.

Angel already had the experience of a failed relationship with a mortal girl, he knows he has nothing to offer someone like Cordelia, and if he loves her - why would he want less for her than for Buffy? Why would he want to risk going through the heartbreak and risks of that kind of relationship again? They should've dug deeper into his character about why he thought it could work with Cordelia, or why he didn't care that it probably wouldn't work out, instead of having characters talking about what a true love match they are. Even if they were, it doesn't change a thing from what we've already seen Angel experience and go through, why was he ready to go through it again? What had changed in him to make him think it was a good idea?

I lacked genuine reflection from both characters as this relationship was made to happen and it made no sense as they were both extraordinarily aware of the risks and downsides. But all of that was flippantly shrugged off for training montages, gala dresses, and pseudoparenting.

Characters can grow and change, that's kind of what's great about watching long running shows, I mean just look at Wesley. But Wesley's change is organic, you can see what's happening and understand his development. But you can't just have characters, without any reflection, go "oh this is me now". That's how they ruined both Cordelia and the chances of Cangel for me, because they glossed over all the dark and interesting stuff that needed to be worked through and just skipped to the "they're in love now! Bad idea or not!"

Clearly the happiness clause was, and is, a terrible idea beyond the Angelus reveal of Buffy season 2. It just doesn't work in the long term and the writers didn't know what to do with it or what to do with Angel's romantic life because of it. Because being doomed to solitude is just bad TV. It's not until season 5 that they get Wesley to talk about it and point out that it is unlikely that Angel will achieve perfect happiness with another woman. That's five years into the show! If they'd been serious about Cangel they should've brought that up around season 2-3, imo, though, I suppose they didn't because it would've pointed out that he was unlikely to be perfectly happy with Cordy. Still, ignoring it didn't make things better.
 

Spanky

Scooby
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
22,953
Black Thorn
Instead they just make up that when she was higher being Cordelia saw everything he did as Angelus… ehm, ok?
And... they redid THAT whole thing again in the comics with Buffy and Spike; when Buffy went into, and saw, Spike's history.
 
FaithLehane16
FaithLehane16
How dumb.
Top Bottom