Change one thing in S5

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As much as I love season 5 for the characters, I would change some things in terms of the story lines, since it leaves me puzzled:
1. The Knights of Byzantinum: What are they worshiping, how the came into existence etc. same goes for the monks of the Dragon
2. I do not see any purpose in the Knights except for medieval showdown, I would either leave them out or as mentioned give them more of backstory and interaction with other characters, for example, the knights seemed very self-righteous, especially Gregor, I would play on that
3. Dawn being entirely human without any powers does not make sense, even if it plays of better with Buffy as her protector, the history of the key also needs to be explained a little more
4. The whole blood ritual does not make sense, since as Glory says, it can be a bicycle pump, which naturally has no blood
5. Being a huge Glory fan I would have actually seen some parts of her history and more of her relationship with her brother/vessel Ben, there are only hints in season 5
 
Sternbeeere said:
As much as I love season 5 for the characters, I would change some things in terms of the story lines, since it leaves me puzzled:
1. The Knights of Byzantinum: What are they worshiping, how the came into existence etc. same goes for the monks of the Dragon
2. I do not see any purpose in the Knights except for medieval showdown, I would either leave them out or as mentioned give them more of backstory and interaction with other characters, for example, the knights seemed very self-righteous, especially Gregor, I would play on that
3. Dawn being entirely human without any powers does not make sense, even if it plays of better with Buffy as her protector, the history of the key also needs to be explained a little more
4. The whole blood ritual does not make sense, since as Glory says, it can be a bicycle pump, which naturally has no blood
5. Being a huge Glory fan I would have actually seen some parts of her history and more of her relationship with her brother/vessel Ben, there are only hints in season 5
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The lack of magic powers benefits Dawn as a character even more later than during this season. Think the show needed those grounded human characters to balance out the fantastical ones. Also, I'm not as much like you in wanting these things explained. I think sometimes it opens the mind up more if it is left to wonder rather than having everything laid out for you.
 
Mr Trick said:
I think sometimes it opens the mind up more if it is left to wonder rather than having everything laid out for you.
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Also true, but in season 5 too much is open.

With regards to Dawn she gains power in season 10, so at least here the logic wins.
 
Sternbeeere said:
Also true, but in season 5 too much is open.

With regards to Dawn she gains power in season 10, so at least here the logic wins.
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You're probably right. Think part of that is because Joss is more concerned with the emotions of the character and the logic of the Buffyverse. That is maybe why we didn't see this kind of storytelling that often.

Heard about that, not sure I like the idea of Dawn with super powers, but hey would have to read to see how it plays out.
 
Mr Trick said:
Heard about that, not sure I like the idea of Dawn with super powers, but hey would have to read to see how it plays out.
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I am not through with the comics yet, but I like the idea, though I attribute her superpowers to her growing up (in season 5 she is 14 and in season 10 around 20/21) mostly.
 
Overall I really enjoyed Season 5 but there are a few things about the Dawn storyline that I would alter.

I really love Michelle Trachtenberg as an actress and I think she is stunningly beautiful but I feel like she was miscast for the role of Dawn. The role was written for someone that was around the age of 10 and it is evident from Dawn's behaviour that Michelle is too old for the part. Dawn was supposed to be 14, only ONE year younger than when we first meet Cordelia, Buffy, Xander & Willow. Physically it didn't work for me either. Dawn - pale. Buffy/Joyce - tan. Dawn - dark hair. Buffy/Joyce - blonde. Dawn - curvy hips and tall. Buffy - teeny and petite. Actually... I can almost picture a 10 year old Blake Lively playing the part. Or even a young Hilary Duff.

On that note, Joss always refers to Season 5 as being the season where Buffy's great love is her sister, yet she still has a boyfriend till almost half way through the season! Riley overstayed his welcome and his exit should have been written in far, far earlier in order to give us more time to better comprehend and understand the bond that Buffy has with Dawn.
 
caitaintdead said:
Overall I really enjoyed Season 5 but there are a few things about the Dawn storyline that I would alter.

I really love Michelle Trachtenberg as an actress and I think she is stunningly beautiful but I feel like she was miscast for the role of Dawn. The role was written for someone that was around the age of 10 and it is evident from Dawn's behaviour that Michelle is too old for the part. Dawn was supposed to be 14, only ONE year younger than when we first meet Cordelia, Buffy, Xander & Willow. Physically it didn't work for me either. Dawn - pale. Buffy/Joyce - tan. Dawn - dark hair. Buffy/Joyce - blonde. Dawn - curvy hips and tall. Buffy - teeny and petite. Actually... I can almost picture a 10 year old Blake Lively playing the part. Or even a young Hilary Duff.

On that note, Joss always refers to Season 5 as being the season where Buffy's great love is her sister, yet she still has a boyfriend till almost half way through the season! Riley overstayed his welcome and his exit should have been written in far, far earlier in order to give us more time to better comprehend and understand the bond that Buffy has with Dawn.
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I think they get the balance pretty well. Its about the context of how Dawn is introduced as a character and because she never has the responsibility than Buffy has. Buffy had to grow up first because of her calling. And I do think that some 14 year olds would act the way Dawn does at times, not all but some. With casting for these kinds of show its always a case of casting actors who are older than the character just because actors who are 14 or 15 just wouldn't be mature enough or good enough to give that same level of performance. Or at least it is harder to find those actors. Think its more of a problem with Cordelia than it is for Willow and Xander. I really buy Willow as a 14 year old at the start of the show, largely because of how good Hannigan's performance is.

Agree with you on the Riley point. Think they didn't want to rush his exit and give it more of a logical build, but then I wasn't pleased with the story's conclusion anyway. Into the Woods is a low point of my just for that reason.
 
Mr Trick said:
I think they get the balance pretty well. Its about the context of how Dawn is introduced as a character and because she never has the responsibility than Buffy has. Buffy had to grow up first because of her calling. And I do think that some 14 year olds would act the way Dawn does at times, not all but some. With casting for these kinds of show its always a case of casting actors who are older than the character just because actors who are 14 or 15 just wouldn't be mature enough or good enough to give that same level of performance. Or at least it is harder to find those actors. Think its more of a problem with Cordelia than it is for Willow and Xander. I really buy Willow as a 14 year old at the start of the show, largely because of how good Hannigan's performance is.
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I understand that Buffy had to grow up quickly, but even her Hemery flashback days somehow seemed more mature than Dawn in S5! I was the same age as Dawn throughout the Buffy series and I found her general behaviour in S5 (and parts of S6) pretty hard to comprehend even at the time when I was her age.
 
Sternbeeere
Sternbeeere
I love Dawn, but same here, I could not relate to Dawn at all.
caitaintdead said:
I understand that Buffy had to grow up quickly, but even her Hemery flashback days somehow seemed more mature than Dawn in S5! I was the same age as Dawn throughout the Buffy series and I found her general behaviour in S5 (and parts of S6) pretty hard to comprehend even at the time when I was her age.
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But I think some of that does come from Dawn being sheltered. Think she lives under conditions that most teens wouldn't. Also, with MT it is another likev when cast the original Scoobies that it would have been easiler to have cast an good actress of her age, than having to find someone a bit younger.
 
caitaintdead said:
Overall I really enjoyed Season 5 but there are a few things about the Dawn storyline that I would alter.

I really love Michelle Trachtenberg as an actress and I think she is stunningly beautiful but I feel like she was miscast for the role of Dawn. The role was written for someone that was around the age of 10 and it is evident from Dawn's behaviour that Michelle is too old for the part. Dawn was supposed to be 14, only ONE year younger than when we first meet Cordelia, Buffy, Xander & Willow. Physically it didn't work for me either. Dawn - pale. Buffy/Joyce - tan. Dawn - dark hair. Buffy/Joyce - blonde. Dawn - curvy hips and tall. Buffy - teeny and petite. Actually... I can almost picture a 10 year old Blake Lively playing the part. Or even a young Hilary Duff.

On that note, Joss always refers to Season 5 as being the season where Buffy's great love is her sister, yet she still has a boyfriend till almost half way through the season! Riley overstayed his welcome and his exit should have been written in far, far earlier in order to give us more time to better comprehend and understand the bond that Buffy has with Dawn.
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They did not get the siblings look alike well on the show: Ben refers to Glory as being his sister several times and Glory calls him family, plus his her vessel and shares the same genes with her, yet he does not look anything like her. Dawn and Buffy at least have similar faces.

Generally, although I could not relate to her at all, I do not find Dawn immature, when I have grown up, also not all 14-year olds are the same maturity level, not even all adults are.
 
Sternbeeere said:
They did not get the siblings look alike well on the show: Ben refers to Glory as being his sister several times and Glory calls him family, plus his her vessel and shares the same genes with her, yet he does not look anything like her.
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Glory and Ben didn't share parents though, so it makes sense that they would look different. Glory could have been implanted into anyone, with any looks.

not all 14-year olds are the same maturity level, not even all adults are.
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Very fair call actually!

I suppose I had a very different experience of being 14. I was working a part time job after school, and had a very active social life, regularly attending all ages gigs. It would make sense that I was far more mature than someone that was sheltered. In fact, now that you mention it, I was constantly told as a 14 year old that I was grown up for my age (shame my maturity level never progressed 😛)
 
caitaintdead said:
Glory and Ben didn't share parents though, so it makes sense that they would look different. Glory could have been implanted into anyone, with any looks.
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Ben was specifically created to contain Glory, thus she could not have been implanted in anyone. And as Ben was born with Glorys essence they had the same parents. Yet, I always explained them looking different with two other things : Either it is part of the spell that makes one forget Ben is Glory and Glory is Ben or Ben has the dominant genes and Glory the recessive (Ben dark hair, chin dimple, both dominant traits, Glory, blonde and no dimple etc.).
caitaintdead said:
I suppose I had a very different experience of being 14. I was working a part time job after school, and had a very active social life, regularly attending all ages gigs. It would make sense that I was far more mature than someone that was sheltered. In fact, now that you mention it, I was constantly told as a 14 year old that I was grown up for my age (shame my maturity level never progressed 😛)
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I was totally different than you and Dawn. More extremely overprotected, nerdy, fat, having good marks all the time, bullied by peers. That time I jumped over class in the hope that bullying would cease. And yes, I heard my parents and teachers telling me that I was a very mature teen, despite everything. But I have grown up into a very immature and emotional adult 😛
 
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Sternbeeere said:
Ben was specifically created to contain Glory, thus she could not have been implanted in anyone. And as Ben was born with Glorys essence they had the same parents. Yet, I always explained them looking different with two other things : Either it is part of the spell that makes one forget Ben is Glory and Glory is Ben or Ben has the dominant genes and Glory the recessive (Ben dark hair, chin dimple, both dominant traits, Glory, blonde and no dimple etc.).
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Hrm, somehow I completely missed the point that Ben was only created to contain Glory! Woops. In my head I always assumed it was pure lack of luck for Ben.

I was totally different than you and Dawn. More extremely overprotected, nerdy, fat, having good marks all the time, bullied by peers. That time I jumped over class in the hope that bullying would cease. And yes, I heard my parents and teachers telling me that I was a very mature teen, despite everything. But I have grown up into a very immature and emotional adult 😛
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I had the nerdy, good marks and bullied stuff down too unfortunately. I wasn't fat, but man my zits had some serious game. Sucks huh?
 
Sternbeeere
Sternbeeere
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caitaintdead said:
Hrm, somehow I completely missed the point that Ben was only created to contain Glory! Woops. In my head I always assumed it was pure lack of luck for Ben.
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Gronx (Glorys female minion) and Gregor (the knights of Byzantines leader) both state this in spiral.
 
Are we talking about Buffy and Dawn not looking that much alike here? Not all siblings would look that much like each other, so it doesn't bother me too much. The performances work and the chelmistry between the two actors sell it for me.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Yes. But. TV WORLD! Hehehe.
Mr Trick said:
Are we talking about Buffy and Dawn not looking that much alike here? Not all siblings would look that much like each other, so it doesn't bother me too much. The performances work and the chelmistry between the two actors sell it for me.
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I was talking that both sibling-pairings Dawn/Buffy Ben/Glory not looking a like. But you are right as well and not only siblings sometimes kids and parents look not a like
 
More of a backstory to Tara's life. I loved the Family, but it left so much unanswered IMO. Maybe some flashbacks?

More of a character to Riley, because he seemed a bit empty and had quite some potential.

Finally, Xander and Anya wedding story line never happening, because I literally hate everything about that storyline. I see the point of it, as it shows the importance of communication, but UGH. I loved their duet in OMWF, though.
 
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