Dead Man's Party-Did the scoobs act wrongly?

they had know idea if she was alive or death they were worried

if xander and willow and oz did not fight there would be a lot more body. what would be better for buffy( buffy you ran away and 10 people die or 100 ) they were trying to help, and the first think buffy did was make fun of xander (name nighthowk)

they were nice to her till she wanted to run away again. they they just lost it.

buffy broke there trust when she let angel kill alot of people.

and if she would have said run away the watcher or ptb or the demon would have kill her,
 
I thought they acted a little harshly, I was so mad at Xander for a while after that! Although-they DID have a point.
 
Yeah, I think they were a little hard on her...but the only person that really asked for it was Joyce. Still, she had it coming, since she didn't even bother to call or anything.

Anyway, Buffy has a lot of episodes that remind me of Oingo Boingo songs. xD Dead Man's Party is a song by them, and Some Assembly Required reminds me of Weird Science. Bahh, I'm just a music nerd.
 
J
Joyce Summers
I have Oingo Boingo songs and frequently refer back to Dead Man's Party when I watch that episode so you're not alone ;)
I don't think they were too harsh at ALL! I was furious at her in Anne.
To just take off and leave knowing the fate of Sunnydale, possibly the world, and all the people she loved were in jeopardy without her there.

Sure, she was upset and she had to kill Angel. And that might lead to running away. But, not STAYING away and not just not calling and letting everyone try and to keep things together without her. What they did was NO WHERE NEAR as harsh as if she'd come back to find a world like in "The Wish", which is very well what could have happened.

And, when she GOT home, she didn't want to talk about her reasons or explain anything. Which is what also got her in trouble. She just wanted people to be happy to see her.

It's childish and, fine, she was a child. But part of acting childish when your a child is not being treated like an adult. She screwed up and should have been called on it. Just saying, "You don't know what I've been through" doesn't cut it. Of COURSE, they didn't know...no one told them. And she didn't know what THEY had been through.
And although she was welcomed home in quite a gracious fashion, she didn't think it was gracious enough and wanted to bolt again without taking her dues for doing something really stupid.
 
J
Joyce Summers
I totally agree with your post. Especially the last paragraph about 'not being gracious enough'
S
sosa lola
Wow! Love this post. While I do feel for Buffy, but I also feel for the Scoobies and no one really wants to see it from their POV.
i think they may have not acted the best but they do love her and would do anythink for her.

lets look at it just form xander point of view.

xander is visting joyce and she is so sad, he is trying to make her smile.
willow is sad xander is trying to make smile. giles is out of it

xander in friends are fight vampies and do a ok job but some are getting away, so that means that his friends are dying and he cant do anythink about it

everybody forgets that xander grow up and sunnydale so some of the vampire he has to kill are his frends form when he was kid.

he is worried about the girl (buffy) that he would gladly die for.

firends are deing he can same everyone but he tries. buffy come back he tell her he love her. she is cold to him, does not tell him what happen.

they throw her a party, to help then he finds walk in when joyce is yelling at her for running away again with out telling anyone.

then he just lost it. and started yelling.

after that he was there for her again trying to help her and be there for her,

not immagion joyce and willow point of view can you see how this is hard for them.


xander kill his best friend is childhood, and some of the vimpire he had to kill her friend for school that he has know all is life, he can understand some. and most of the season he was there for buffy, trying to help.

but every one remember the one bad think he said and not the 50 nice think he done.
he is not perfect but is there any doubt that he would die for her, do anythink for her,
 
I think they were WAY too harsh. The only one I can even relate to is Willow, she does have a good point in what she says (especially since she doesn't know about the infamous "message of hers" Xander delivered) - though her timing and wording are far from ideal.

Joyce and Xander, in my opinion, had it more than coming to them and should have kept their little mouths humbly shut here. I know I'm VERY partial when it comes to Joyce, but I simply won't listen to any justification of the kicking out situation. She basically got what she asked for and now refuses taking responsibility and instead goes dishing out guilt trips to anyone else... yay, go girl. ::grrr:: Really makes me wonder just who's the immature teenager in that house.

And Xander? Three words: "Kick his ass." Much as I usually like him, here he of all people has got no right in the world accusing anyone of being selfish.

Apart from that, the whole idea of the party - with lots of people there who have got no idea what this is about, and aren't allowed to find out either - is as outright stupidly avoidant as can be... A subconscious message of "You didn't talk to us, so we now make sure we have no opportunity to have to talk to you." I really can relate to Buffy going straight back to packing up again; had it remained the way she's make to feel "welcome", she has nothing to stay for except a) her self-righteous mom and b) the concept of "Slayer duty" - and I've always felt that duty alone was never enough of a motivation for her (just compare her to Kendra... and that girl just got killed!), she needed support of friends to keep her going, and those friends simply aren't there anymore in any way but physical existence when she comes back.

Don't get me wrong, they definitely SHOULD have had a long sincere talk about what happended, and yes, that most certainly includes Buffy (whose later secrecy about feral Angel's return is dumb-to-the-third-power...); but time and setting here are just so totally, totally WRONG, and - at least to me - so are the attitudes of Xander & Joyce.
 
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
Well done.
This episode marked the first and only time i was ever pissed off at willow, and the first of many times that i hated xander (i love him 97% of the time,but he can be a wanker!) they were way to harsh, except for the ever cool and amazing Oz.
 
This is one of my favorite episodes and the reasoning for that is all about Giles. As far as the question at hand... he is the one Scooby that doesn't get in her face, for that matter he is very leniant in my opinion. That plays a part in the story that is telling to me. Giles handeled it as a mature collected person seeing both sides, I still almost cry when i see him almost crying at his excused exit to get the tea. He handeled it both like a watcher and friend, and gets bonus points for the best line of the episode "Don't you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead!....Americans."

As for the rest I'll try to explain where I think they are coming from:

Joyce sort of angered me in this episode, but I could somewhat understand why she acted as she did. There are no two characters in this episode closer than Joyce and her daughter, yet she joins a freaking book club when Buffy goes missing for what.... 3 months?!? She doesn't recall the ultimatum she gave Buffy and feel responsible for her absence...or maybe she does?

In her defense, she was dealing with the whole super power thing and her daughter being in continual danger, and thankfully as a parent I don't know what thats like- completely- but I imagine that would make you irrational and do things to 'protect' you and yours.

Joyce seems to always try to inject normalcy into her daughters life....maybe the book club and taking the disappearance so lightly/assuming that her daughter had run away as opposd to being kidnapped or killed by Vampires/what not.... was just her way of continuing to do so? To protect herself, to insure herself Buffy had in fact ran away and would come back....or at the very least was still alive. Her anger gets a pass at any rate, it was the other behavior that made me stop and wonder where the writers were coming from. (As usual it made sense)

Oz gets no pass for being the cool one, as he has his own inner deamon to contend with and is new to the scoobies and I honestly think he lets Willow talk for him in this case.

Xander is angry at Buffy for a reason besides her making him become "Night Hawk" and putting the crew in danger by shirking her responsibilities.. Lets not forget what he told Buffy about his intrest in Cordy in a prior episode, he says something akin to....the only other girl I'm interested in is taken. Taken being Buffy...plus remember what how Buffy treated him in "When She Was Bad" in season two's opener? Xander is still somewhat in love with Buffy at this point, at least I think deep down he is. (Lets face facts, in this season his love for Cordy gets comprimised, who's to say Willow is the only one who could do that?) I think he feels rejected, much like Willow does, but more so. He thinks that not only did Buffy not have faith in him as friends to deal with all she had gone through at the end of season two, but she also did not have any faith in him at all. I think he felt abandoned and not good enough on a whole other level than Willow, thus he was a butt head more so than her. Women don't have the market cornered on the whole lover scorned deal.

At the same time, what other posters have said is very true; he was very worried about her and probably resented the 'stupidity' of her actions putting them all in danger when she bailed.

Onto Willow.....Willow said it best 'You were my best friend' and then she had to deal with life without Buffy. She saw in Buffy a role model, an uber person, but most importantly another person other than Xander. Xander had been her friend for how long, yet Buffy gets the digs of 'Best' in two seasons? I can't say why except that perhaps Buffy acted as a filter for Willow to understand/cope with her old feeling with Xander. She could not exactly talk about her feeling for him to him. there are all those changes she was going through too, like falling in love with Oz and coming socially into her own. She was left with Buffy's responsibilities and a new social life to contend with alone too, all beacuse her hero and friend fell from grace in eyes by making a monumental mistake, one she caught her repeating....thus willow reacted as she did.

As an observer it is easy to say they were to harsh, but thats what makes it so real despite the vampires and why i espeacially love this episode. How many people are we too harsh on before the days end during our lives? To an outside observer anyone can be a jack-bag because they can not feel what the person they are judging are feeling.

Were they two hard, I'd say yes. I think giles handeled it best, Joyce too, all things considered.

Xander and Willow reacted like i would knowing what they know, so even if it was harsh, i could certainly understand where they were coming from.
 
I don't think they would have had to act so nutty if Buffy had just taken a few minutes to think about how they felt. Instead, she just seemed to be thinking about herself and what she felt and wanted. I think that made them even MORE upset.
I know it would have made ME more upset!
 
R
Relic
Good point, Buffy was on the defensive, and in 'me' mode. They were probably like "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, howabout how we feel...which was angry and just got angrier.
I find it impossible to watch this episode along with Empty Places because they are far too harsh in both episodes.

As far as this episode is concerned.

Buffy had been:-
Expelled from school.
Told by her Mother not to come back.
Was being hunted by the police for murder.
Had just effectively killed the person she loved most of all despite his having his soul restored.

Although her friends did not know about Angel having his soul restored. They knew the rest of it so they should not have been so harsh.

Also if she had stayed she would have been arrested by the police. Who knows how long she would have been kept in custody before they accepted she was innocent.
 
Exactly^^ They were all far too harsh. Joyce just had a total cheek to be acting that way, she was the one that kick Buffy out.
And even before the big argument at the party Willow and Xander were ignoring/avoiding Buffy which was just childish.
 
Sorry if anyone else has said this; I'm too lazy to read through all five pages.

Well, my initial reaction was to say that the Scoobies did, in fact, act wrongly, but now, I think that, in the episode, they were still sort of getting over the shock that Buffy was in Sunnydale again. You can see it from the very beginning, when they first see that she's back; you're expecting a big, happy, hug-filled reunion, but instead, they just stand back and bask in her presence. They had to spend the duration of the episode adjusting to her being there again, and by the end of the episode, the shock seemed to have cleared.
 
I think the scoobies and buffy were both right in what they were saying, but both wrong aswell, how could they understand what buffy had gone thru wen she never told them, but what buffy did go thru was awful, i think i sided with both on that one, i think it was funny when buffy told cordy to get out of her shoes tho!! haha
 
The scoobies really annoyed me in this episode. I get that they felt that they needed to step up, but in all reality, there was a hellmouth in Sunnydale long before the Slayer got there, it's not like they had to do it. And I really feel that the only people that have a right to talk to Buffy like that are her mom and Giles. I mean, they're the ones who should be the most concerned and honestly, she's the SLAYER, what is really going to happen to her? Barring vamps or some kind of other scary thing, it's not like she needs to worry about getting mugged or anything. Had Buffy just called I'm sure things would have been different but frankly she was having kind of a crappy week, so I don't blame her all that much. I think they should have backed off.
 
I side with Buffy in this episode primarily because I think the scoobies treated her poorly since she returned. She was in need of more intimate reconnecting with her friends. I don't blame her too much for packing up to leave again. Look at what she got hit with:

1) Willow stands her up basically at the coffee shop - sure, there was no ill will there, but Buffy was already overly sensitive about it and this was just the start.
2) During the party, it was obvious that Xander and Willow were more concerned about making out with Cordy or watch Oz play. Buffy wanted to talk with Willow, even dragged her away from in front of the band just to get in a couple words, and Willow was obviously more concerned with watching Oz then trying to make amends (something she FINALLY did in Buffy's bedroom).
3) So, Buffy's feeling bad and then stumbles on her mother saying "It was almost easier when she wasn't here."

Her friends are ignoring her (for the most part) and she's basically a stranger in her own home, surrounded by all these people that don't even know her. It wasn't until she saw Buffy packing that Willow finally gave Buffy a chance to have a heart-to-heart with her. How come Willow didn't show her that kind of time before the party or even during? It would have made a huge difference.

Xander was just straight up annoying. During the argument, Buffy was trying to have discourse 1-on-1 with people, and Xander would just interrupt... I wish Buffy would have decked him. There's only two people that Buffy should have apologized to and that's Joyce and Giles. Even so, my sympathies only go so far with Joyce. If you lay down an ultimatum like she did at the end of season 2, you better be prepared to be called on it...

Incidentally, Giles seemed to be the only one that felt Buffy's pain. No one else cared to look at it from her point of view. This even extends into episode 3, when he continuously attempts to get Buffy to "let it out" for the "spell" he was working on. Willow didn't even pick up on it... he did all that for Buffy's benefit, and it's a touching sentiment. The rest of the Scoobs just forgot about it or never cared.
 
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
Well done.
I
InsaneMystic
full agreement here.
Airam
Airam
agreed whole heartedly
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
DUDE! So well said! 100% agree.
I think that there were probably wrongs committed on both sides. Maybe Buffy shouldn't of ran away, but if I were in her position I probably would've done the exact same thing. She's already alone because she the slayer and then there was Angel. Angel was the one person that she loved more than anything and she sent him to hell. The one person that she could really count on. I think that when she came back her mom wasn't as compassionate as maybe she should've been. Her friends weren't as compassionate as they should've been either. She felt that they couldn't relate and couldn't help and she's probably right. All she had in that situation was herself. You she felt completely and utterly alone. We have seen that that beyond this occasion that her friends aren't as great as they should be. I think that essentially the one person that has loved her unconditionally throughout the entire series of Buffy was Angel. He could relate to her, somewhat understand what she was going through. If the show was still on, Buffy, Xander, and Willow should've really had a big sit down about their friendships with each other.
 
I'm a huge fan of zombie films, this episode was AWESOME!

when they busted into Buffy's house, it remended me of Romero's Night of the Living Dead.

I expected conflict with Buffy and the Scoobies, but they immediately banded together when all hell broke loose.

even Mom got in on the action.


Plus seeing Giles go a bit medieval on MONKEY BOY made my night.
 
I found it kind of odd that when the dead guys started attacking the party and one punched a hole through the front door and grabbed Oz, Willow ran upstairs and just left him there to fend for himself. Cordelia is the one who stayed to help him.

Off topic, I know. But it bothers me.
 
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