Did Buffy Love Spike?

[angeldarla]

i agree with your opinion BOD! but i think that inside she loved spike, but i guess its a diff love that she had for angel. ( I'm a Bangel fan)

 

[William The Bloody]

Yes probably but she's ashamed of Spike. I really do not know why but..yes probably she DID love Spike inside but no one is really sure (including Buffy) because of all the other emotions like anger, hatred, sadness that's inside her. To me, she was confused and she she can't tell which emotion she's feeling. She getting mixed up with all her problems and emotions which prevented her from realising her feeling with another person.

 

[buffy man]

I don't think Buffy loves him. In Chosen Buffy says "I love you" but Spike says "No you don't, but thanks for saying it."

So I don't think she really loved him so much that she wanted to marry him. I think she loved him like a friend or something. Buffy says to Angel in "Chosen" that Spike is in her heart. So I am guessing she loves him like a friend.

 

[palabravampiress]

I don't understand why it has to be an either/or thing. Why does everyone act like Buffy admitting her love for Spike somehow invalidates her love for Angel and/or like her love for Angel somehow means she can never be in love with anyone else ever again?

I think she loved Spike. First of all, Buffy doesn't exactly go around saying "I love you" to everyone she meets. She's very guarded. Like she discussed with Giles, for her to say that is a big deal. She said it. That must make it true. That word means a lot coming from Buffy's mouth. I get that because I'm the same way. I've only said that to two romantic partners in my entire life, and I am now married to one of those men (for the record, my husband told me he loved me about a month before I could reply in kind). Heck, I don't even say it to my parents very often. There are some family members who say it often, but to whom I will never say it. When a person is as hesitant about declaring her feelings as Buffy is, that word means a lot.

Second, her actions indicate that she loves Spike. A lot of people have already listed those actions, so I won't go into a lot of detail rehashing them here. You can read others' posts for that.

Angel was Buffy's first love. Spike was her adult love. It was complicated and messy, yeah. But so is adult life. Spike was the only person in her life who accepted and loved her dark side and her failures. Even when everyone else - her sister, Giles, Xander - deserted her, he stood by her. He believed in her. He saw the best and the worst in her, like he said, and he loved her all the more because she kept trying even when she messed up. He respected her decisions and her judgment. She did the same for him. She saw the worst in him, too, but she also saw how he tried, and that's why she didn't let the First, the chip, Giles, Wood, or anyone else kill him. In the end, it was Spike that she chose to stand with her at the end of the world. It was Spike that she chose for her bed and for her champion, even when Angel offered. Of course she loved him. How could she not love the one person with whom she ever really shared a completely honest - even about the not-so-pretty stuff - relationship?



I always thought it was rude of Spike to question Buffy's sincerity there at the end. From a little fanfic that I wrote for the Mr. Gordo yahoo group:

Yellow breathed harder and faster. He made those gurgling, scary noises some more. More stuffing came out from his mouth.

"Well, I'll try not to (wheeze) bollocks it up this time by sayin' (wheeze) it ain't so."

"Good. Cuz I'm really not big on being contradicted."

"Bloody presumptuous of me, (wheeze) tellin' you how you felt, (rasp) wasn't it?"

"A little bit, yeah."



So, yeah, I think she loved him. I think she just loved him in a different, more adult way than she loved Angel. Trust me. I know from experience that there is a huge difference between teeny bopper puppy love and real, lasting adult love. The former is pretty until it ends, at which point it is devastating. The latter is not as pretty (in fact, it's downright messy), but it's about 100 times as strong.

 

[Mirage]

No, I don't believe she did love Spike and I think Chosen made that clear. If she did, after he said "No you don't" she would have said that she really did love him. Then there would have been no room for doubt in anyones mind that she did. But she didn't disagree with him. I believe she cared for him but as far as love goes, no she didn't love him. And he knew this. Just like Riley knew it.

 

[palabravampiress]

No, I don't believe she did love Spike and I think Chosen made that clear. If she did, after he said "No you don't" she would have said that she really did love him. Then there would have been no room for doubt in anyones mind that she did. But she didn't disagree with him. I believe she cared for him but as far as love goes, no she didn't love him. And he knew this. Just like Riley knew it.

I thought something started to cave in as soon he said that, and then he told her to get out, and then she started to say something about saving him, but he cut her off and yelled at her to leave.

I don't think we can really argue based on what she *would* have said *if* the place hadn't started to cave in.

As far as Spike's response goes, well, this isn't a question of whether or not Spike believed what she said. This is a question of whether or not she believed what she said. I have my own opinions on why Spike may have said what he said, but that's a topic for a Spike thread. This is a Buffy thread, so Spike's interpretation isn't the definitive word on anything.

 

[Tranquillity]

I've posted this link in another discussion on a very similar topic. My opinion is here if you're are interested. it is too long to post here.

 

[Joyce Summers]

In Chosen, Buffy chooses Spike as her champion and that night they spent together in each other's arm (both times) was passionate god-we're-love-sex, there was no sex. it was just closeness and you don't get that kind of unbelievable closeness. I think she loved Spike, but she was afraid to admit it or face it. And in that final moment she was finally able to accept those feelings.
She didn't love him in season 6, but in season 7 I think he did grow to because, due to his soul, she was able to get know him as the man he was, as a person, and that is what she loved.
That's my opinion anyway

 

[DarklyDreamingDrusilla]

I wish there was a medium button in the poll...if that makes since. What I mean to say is that I do think Buffy loved Spike but not equally or more than Angel. Angel will always be her love. She would give up Spike in a minute for Angel but I think she did love Spike for what he did for her.

 

[Kean]

I think this is a very personal thing. I don't think even if Joss himslef told us one way or another who she loved we would accept it. For some unknown reason, the person who Buffy considers the love of her life is very important to alot of people. I think its because Buffy is so much more than a show. Joss designed Buffy to exist in people lives, to become part of their lives and not just something we tune into once a week. The fact that 5 years after Buffy ended and 4 after Angel we are still here as passionate as ever, maybe even, more than ever discussing the show as if it just aired shows that Joss did his job. I duno about you but I'm invested in the show, and huge part of that for me is the Buffy/Angel relationship. So if Joss himslef told me that Buffy loved Spike I'm fairly sure I would reject it vehemently. It would be like losing a little bit of me. Maybe she loved Spike maybe she didn't it doesn't really matter as like Mr. Whedon wrote himself 'There is not truth. There's just what you believe' and I believe in Bangel. Always.

 

[palabravampiress]

Does anyone else watch General Hospital?

I ask because Spike and Buffy have a lot in common with GH's Alan and Monica. Alan and Monica were doctors and they both had less-than-perfect romantic pasts when they came together in the late 70s. They never had an idyllic love. In fact, they fought often. When they fought, boy did they fight. Death was sometimes an option in those bouts (for instance, Alan once tried to make the nursery roof fall on Monica and her lover), but they usually ended in wild, crazy, passionate sex. The Drs. Quartermaine had several children. They had several affairs, as well, and you'd better believe there were some paternity scandals. Romance in the afternoon, this was not. But it was all kinds of hot.

Their biggest story came in the 90s, when Monica was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was in a dead-woman-walking frame of mind, much as Buffy was in season 6 of BtVS. Some of Alan and Monica's conversations definitely remind me of Spike and Buffy's spoken and unspoken emotions. Also like Buffy, Monica had an old flame from her younger years. Rick Webber represented perfection to Monica. She never did get over that crush. And Alan never did get over his jealousy. But, right before Alan died, Monica admitted that she loved Alan. In the end, it was important to her that he know that she didn't feel like she'd settled. It may not have always been the case but, in the end, she loved Alan.

Alan and Monica are one of my favorite TV couples. They fought hard and they loved hard and there was never much in the way of traditional romance. But when the chips were down, and they were down often (again, it's a soap), there was always strength and comfort to be found in each other. They proved willing to kill and lie and cheat for one another. They had each other's backs. And no one had any moral authority in that marriage, that's for sure. They were equals in virtue as well as in vice, and they both accepted the bad in each other as well as the good. They lasted -- on TV! -- for 3 decades.

I see Spike and Buffy in a similar light. The fact that Angel is the more traditionally romantic love does not mean that Spike is not an equally important sort of love. When Monica was a young girl, she needed hearts and flowers, so she had Rick (and his brother - hey, it's a soap). As she got older, she needed a partner who could cater to the other sides of her personality, so she had Alan. It's the same with Buffy. When Buffy was young, she needed storybook romance, so she had Angel. Adult, back-from-the-dead Buffy needed something more complex and not always so pretty, so she had Spike. Both were fun to watch but, in my book, the Spike relationship had the most depth. To say that Buffy never loved Spike, well, that's not just contradicting Buffy's words (although it is); it's also contradicting human nature. We all grow up. Our concept of love and our relationships grow, too.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Does anyone else watch General Hospital?

I ask because Spike and Buffy have a lot in common with GH's Alan and Monica. Alan and Monica were doctors and they both had less-than-perfect romantic pasts when they came together in the late 70s. They never had an idyllic love. In fact, they fought often. When they fought, boy did they fight. Death was sometimes an option in those bouts (for instance, Alan once tried to make the nursery roof fall on Monica and her lover), but they usually ended in wild, crazy, passionate sex. The Drs. Quartermaine had several children. They had several affairs, as well, and you'd better believe there were some paternity scandals. Romance in the afternoon, this was not. But it was all kinds of hot.

Their biggest story came in the 90s, when Monica was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was in a dead-woman-walking frame of mind, much as Buffy was in season 6 of BtVS. Some of Alan and Monica's conversations definitely remind me of Spike and Buffy's spoken and unspoken emotions. Also like Buffy, Monica had an old flame from her younger years. Rick Webber represented perfection to Monica. She never did get over that crush. And Alan never did get over his jealousy. But, right before Alan died, Monica admitted that she loved Alan. In the end, it was important to her that he know that she didn't feel like she'd settled. It may not have always been the case but, in the end, she loved Alan.

Alan and Monica are one of my favorite TV couples. They fought hard and they loved hard and there was never much in the way of traditional romance. But when the chips were down, and they were down often (again, it's a soap), there was always strength and comfort to be found in each other. They proved willing to kill and lie and cheat for one another. They had each other's backs. And no one had any moral authority in that marriage, that's for sure. They were equals in virtue as well as in vice, and they both accepted the bad in each other as well as the good. They lasted -- on TV! -- for 3 decades.

I see Spike and Buffy in a similar light. The fact that Angel is the more traditionally romantic love does not mean that Spike is not an equally important sort of love. When Monica was a young girl, she needed hearts and flowers, so she had Rick (and his brother - hey, it's a soap). As she got older, she needed a partner who could cater to the other sides of her personality, so she had Alan. It's the same with Buffy. When Buffy was young, she needed storybook romance, so she had Angel. Adult, back-from-the-dead Buffy needed something more complex and not always so pretty, so she had Spike. Both were fun to watch but, in my book, the Spike relationship had the most depth. To say that Buffy never loved Spike, well, that's not just contradicting Buffy's words (although it is); it's also contradicting human nature. We all grow up. Our concept of love and our relationships grow, too.

What can I say? I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[jeansebergmustdie]

I'll keep this really quick. But honestly how could anyone watch 'End of Days' and not come to the almighty conclusion that she had come to love him. You're not going to write someone getting a soul for a girl in and not have the girl love him. There's pain in the Buffyverse, clearly, but that's ridiculous. Season seven brought about the growth of both Spike and Buffy so that she could in fact love him.

 

[white avenger]

By the time of "Chosen," Buffy had finally admitted to herself that she was in love with Spike and no longer gave a damn who knew about it, hence her openly sleeping (even if they only slept) with him for the last three nights of the series. Unfortunately, she never got around to telling him directly about her feelings until the last possible moment, which was a case of pi** poor timing at the least, and a tragedy at the worst. I honestly believe that if the show had continued past Sunnydale only as much as a day or two, we would have seen a much different Slayer than the only sadly smiling one we saw at the actual end of the show.

Yes, Buffy loved Spike. More importantly, yes, she was IN LOVE with Spike. If Joss Whedon wasn't such a cruel sadistic monster, he would have shown us that, and all of these debates wouldn't be necessary. Buffy loved Angel. She was IN LOVE WITH Spike.

 

[palabravampiress]

I'm kind of glad Joss didn't show us past Sunnydale.

I mean, man... watching Buffy and Xander mourn Spike and Anya? Sure, I wrote a fanfic about it, but that would have been a really sad end to the series.

One thing I do want to see, eventually, is a face-to-face between those two now that Spike is "alive" again. I mean, her reaction when she finds out that he's been "alive" all this time and hasn't told her... that's going to be pretty interesting. I'm certain she grieved for him. Even if I didn't believe she loved him, I would believe that she would mourn the passing of someone who fought alongside her so often. I imagine she'll be pleased that he's alive, and then awfully angry that he didn't tell her sooner. You just don't make a person mourn you unnecessarily. You just don't! It's cruel, even if you don't mean for it to be cruel.

 

[white avenger]

Reunion

I'm kind of glad Joss didn't show us past Sunnydale.

I mean, man... watching Buffy and Xander mourn Spike and Anya? Sure, I wrote a fanfic about it, but that would have been a really sad end to the series.

One thing I do want to see, eventually, is a face-to-face between those two now that Spike is "alive" again. I mean, her reaction when she finds out that he's been "alive" all this time and hasn't told her... that's going to be pretty interesting. I'm certain she grieved for him. Even if I didn't believe she loved him, I would believe that she would mourn the passing of someone who fought alongside her so often. I imagine she'll be pleased that he's alive, and then awfully angry that he didn't tell her sooner. You just don't make a person mourn you unnecessarily. You just don't! It's cruel, even if you don't mean for it to be cruel.

I agree completely that the Buffy/Sprite reunion, when it occurs, is gonna be great. I'm just curious if the kissing or the a** kicking will come first.Ti doesn't really matter in the long run, though. They're both just foreplay for Buffy and Spike...

 

[Kean]

By the time of "Chosen," Buffy had finally admitted to herself that she was in love with Spike and no longer gave a damn who knew about it, hence her openly sleeping (even if they only slept) with him for the last three nights of the series. Unfortunately, she never got around to telling him directly about her feelings until the last possible moment, which was a case of pi** poor timing at the least, and a tragedy at the worst. I honestly believe that if the show had continued past Sunnydale only as much as a day or two, we would have seen a much different Slayer than the only sadly smiling one we saw at the actual end of the show.

Yes, Buffy loved Spike. More importantly, yes, she was IN LOVE with Spike. If Joss Whedon wasn't such a cruel sadistic monster, he would have shown us that, and all of these debates wouldn't be necessary. Buffy loved Angel. She was IN LOVE WITH Spike.

You've gotten their names mixed up again! really got keep taking those pills! In those final moments she loves Spike thats without question but Angel is the ONLY person she has ever or will ever be in love with!:tongue:

 

[white avenger]

You've gotten their names mixed up again! really got keep taking those pills! In those final moments she loves Spike thats without question but Angel is the ONLY person she has ever or will ever be in love with!:tongue:

Miss K, I love ya darlin', but you're sufferin' under this delusion...

 

[Kean]

Miss K, I love ya darlin', but you're sufferin' under this delusion...

I could say the very same thing about you WA...😉

 

[white avenger]

I could say the very same thing about you WA...😉

You love me, too? Awww..that warms the cockles of an old man's heart (let's just keep it our little secret. Lady avenger's not only a jealous woman, she's a damn fine shot!)